Move from extract to all-grain brewing

[gregmosu]

Not sure that this forum is the right place for this thread, but I'm still very much a noob so...

I've done three batches of beer from Brewer's Best extract kits: Nut Brown Ale, Witbier & Oatmeal stout. All three batches turned out great!

I have no problem with these kits other than it'd be nice to cut the costs a little. The only issue is that I've been looking around, and I'm not sure I see where all-grain brewing is any less expensive. I see options for Brew In a Bag and then I found this site: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/

but when you add shipping and all that stuff in, it doesn't seem to really save you any money. So, where can you go to buy the materials at a price that does make all-grain brewing really pay off?

 

[stratslinger]

I've found that the best way to cut costs with all-grain is to buy in bulk. Of course, that requires an initial investment in some sort of containers to keep the grain fresh and safe from rodents, and an investment in a grain mill (or a buddy willing to let you use his/hers).

 

[gregmosu]

I've found that the best way to cut costs with all-grain is to buy in bulk. Of course, that requires an initial investment in some sort of containers to keep the grain fresh and safe from rodents, and an investment in a grain mill (or a buddy willing to let you use his/hers).

If you don't mind me asking, what type of beer do you usually brew and how much do you brew at once? What do you estimate the cost to be per 5 gallon batch?

About how much grain do you buy all at once and do the containers just need to be airlocked or kept cold as well? Also, some of the recipes I looked at called for very specific grains.. witbier calls for rolled wheat as well. When buying in bulk, how do you know what you're buying is the right thing?

 

[okbecker]

I'll be honest! The move to all grain has never saved me a dime...lol...constant tinkering / upgrades..plus I brew a high variety of beers so bulk grain hasn't come into play much for me...I'm sure you can save money though I haven't! Then again I believe all grain is more about options in brewing versus cost savings..just my 2 cents.

 

[ong]

I do 5 gallon batches ranging from stouts to bitters to IPAs, even a few lagers. With harvesting yeast and buying hops and grain in bulk, batches cost between $10 and $25. A 55 lb sack of base malt is only $37 for two row or $60 for something like Golden Promise or MO, and generally covers 5 batches for me.

 

[gregmosu]

I do 5 gallon batches ranging from stouts to bitters to IPAs, even a few lagers. With harvesting yeast and buying hops and grain in bulk, batches cost between $10 and $25. A 55 lb sack of base malt is only $37 for two row or $60 for something like Golden Promise or MO, and generally covers 5 batches for me.

I've been reading on here where guys are buying grains that can used to brew multiple types of beer. Is that pretty much what you guys are doing? I guess then it would make sense to determine which recipes I like best and buy grains based on that.

 

[Calder]

I partial mash (8 lbs of grain a batch), and partial boil (still use stove top), and my cost per 6 gallon batch for ingredients averages $18. I don't have expensive equipment, if I factor in everything I've spent over the past 6 years, it works out to 50 cents a bottle.

I buy hops in bulk, works out about 75 cents an ozs.

I re-use yeast, probably buy one new strain a year, but use several.

I'm buying more grain in bulk these days but found many sites offer decent discounts when you buy 10 lbs of a grain. The last grain l bought was a 50 lb sack of 2-row, delivered for $50.

I buy light extract in bulk. About $2 a pound for LME.

........... And for rolled oats, you can use instant or quick oats from the supermarket.

 

[LegionOfDoom]

I can't say I've saved money by going all grain. To save bucks I think you would have to buy in bulk and mill the grain. I hope to be there someday, but not because of cost savings. Really the draw of all grain brewing is being more hands on and enjoying the process. You can can really design your beers and/or just tweak a recipe. It is really fullfilling to turn a bag of grain into beer.

I think beer from extract tastes great and cannot honestly discern a difference. That being said, if you enjoy the process, it's time to go all grain. You won't look back.

Also, some of the local home brew clubs do big grain buys and split the costs. This is a great way to get some of the specialty grains without being stuck with a 55 pound bag.

 

[gregmosu]

I partial mash (8 lbs of grain a batch), and partial boil (still use stove top), and my cost per 6 gallon batch for ingredients averages $18. I don't have expensive equipment, if I factor in everything I've spent over the past 6 years, it works out to 50 cents a bottle.

I buy hops in bulk, works out about 75 cents an ozs.

I re-use yeast, probably buy one new strain a year, but use several.

I'm buying more grain in bulk these days but found many sites offer decent discounts when you buy 10 lbs of a grain. The last grain l bought was a 50 lb sack of 2-row, delivered for $50.

I buy light extract in bulk. About $2 a pound for LME.

........... And for rolled oats, you can use instant or quick oats from the supermarket.

Sounds like this is the direction I want to go, but I think I have a lot of research ahead of me.

 

[stratslinger]

If you don't mind me asking, what type of beer do you usually brew and how much do you brew at once? What do you estimate the cost to be per 5 gallon batch?

About how much grain do you buy all at once and do the containers just need to be airlocked or kept cold as well? Also, some of the recipes I looked at called for very specific grains.. witbier calls for rolled wheat as well. When buying in bulk, how do you know what you're buying is the right thing?

Well, I brew mostly English styles, and American styles derived from those - Stouts, Porters, English and American pale ales and IPA's, with the occasional oddball thing tossed in there for fun.

The containers have to be just air and water tight - I suppose you want to keep them relatively stable temperature-wise, but there's no need to cool them (I keep mine in my basement, which works out well enough).

Typically I keep on hand a few different base malts (I have been keeping US 2-Row, US Pale Ale, and Marris Otter on hand, but I think I may drop the plain 2-Row once I exhaust my current supply - just not enough difference between it and US Pale Ale). I also try to keep on hand partial sacks (having a group to go in on bulk buys is useful here!) of any Crystal/Caramel I typically use (I have 40 and 120 now, but may switch over to 60 instead of 40 when my current supply is exhausted), similar amounts of Roast, Chocolate, and Black malts, and then usually something to play around with here or there (I've been digging having some Munich on hand lately).

This gives me all the grain I need to make a few of the styles I really like, and if I want to do something else I can typically pick up a pound or three of whatever specialty malts I'm missing.

Similar to what others have also mentioned, I try to buy at least some of my hops in bulk (not as much savings here, but it's nice to have the stuff on hand so you can do an impromtu brew day whenever you feel like it). Note that the bulk hops are best stored in vacuum sealed bags, so there's another up front investment.

I also try to repitch yeast whenever I can - whether you wash yeast to keep it in the fridge for a month or two, or just harvest it straight from the fermenter to use within a week or two, it's another thing that can go a long way toward enabling an impromptu brew day AND save you the cost of another smack pack or packet of yeast.

I typically brew 5 gallon batches, and the cheapest I ever did (a cream ale) came in around $9. Some bigger beers, or ones requiring more specialty malts or hops I don't keep on hand have ranged up in the $20-30 range. As a comparison, I just did a Dunkel with a buddy over the weekend - the ingredients for 10 gallons ran us about $80 at the LHBS. (I didn't have near enough Munich on hand to cover this, so I just bought all we needed for this brew day).

 

[brewprint]

You can buy a larger pot on ebay with free shipping.

Order some of the BIAB bags from Wilser brew.

You're going to drop $100 there.

Then you'll buy several hop varieties by the pound which will run you anywhere from $10-$30/lb.

I don't buy grain in bulk nor do I have a mill. One of my LHBS has LME for $2/lb so I'm not saving a ton of money using all grain but I am saving some.

Basically find recipes that you want to brew and don't buy all grain kits. They're still cheaper than extract kits but still overpriced.

One thing for sure is that it tastes better and I have a lot more control.

It takes me approximately 30 minutes longer to do a BIAB batch than an extract batch. I enjoy it more because while the mash sets I can do other things instead of steeping a bag for 30 minutes.

 

[gregmosu]

You can buy a larger pot on ebay with free shipping.

Order some of the BIAB bags from Wilser brew.

You're going to drop $100 there.

Then you'll buy several hop varieties by the pound which will run you anywhere from $10-$30/lb.

I don't buy grain in bulk nor do I have a mill. One of my LHBS has LME for $2/lb so I'm not saving a ton of money using all grain but I am saving some.

Basically find recipes that you want to brew and don't buy all grain kits. They're still cheaper than extract kits but still overpriced.

One thing for sure is that it tastes better and I have a lot more control.

It takes me approximately 30 minutes longer to do a BIAB batch than an extract batch. I enjoy it more because while the mash sets I can do other things instead of steeping a bag for 30 minutes.

I took one of the brewer's best extract kit recipes and looked up the ingredients, and I can basically find everything, but I keep finding interesting things..

I looked up Victory Malt and I saw where someone said that you could actually just use basic 2-row and toast it in the oven @275 for 30 minutes.

Is this basically what you guys do? Get a small variety of malts and alter them based on what you're making? Of course you'd have to add LME and DME + some other things.

What I'm getting hung up on is that I don't necessarily know what combinations to use to re-create certain beers.. plus shortcuts like the one suggested above.

 

[doug293cz]

Where do you live? Is there a local hombrew store (LHBS) near you? A LHBS can save a lot on grain purchases. You can buy bags of base grains without having to pay shipping, and small amounts of specialty grains by the lb (or oz.) My LHBS sells by the lb in the range of $1.25 to $1.75, and 50-55lb bags from $37 to ~$80 depending on the grain (European grains cost more.)

You don't have to create your own recipes. There is a whole forum on HBT devoted to all types of recipes, many with lots of feedback. There are also countless recipes scattered on beer related sites all over the internet. Some on-line stores publish recipes for their kits (Northern Brewer is one) so you can source ingredients wherever you like. After you get an idea of what malts, and how much, go into what styles, you can start thinking about formulating your own recipes. Don't try to start duplicating commercial beers (cloning) until you have formulated some recipes of your own that come out close to your expectations.

I wouldn't worry about trying to modify grains until you get some all grain experience under you belt, and have an idea what the different available malt types have to offer. Many homebrewers never do their own malt modifications.

Start off simple, and then add complexity in small, manageable increments as you get more comfortable with your process & equipment, and brewing in general. Don't expect to be a master brewer right away.

Most of all have fun and drink good beer!

Brew on

 

[brewprint]

I took one of the brewer's best extract kit recipes and looked up the ingredients, and I can basically find everything, but I keep finding interesting things..

I looked up Victory Malt and I saw where someone said that you could actually just use basic 2-row and toast it in the oven @275 for 30 minutes.

Is this basically what you guys do? Get a small variety of malts and alter them based on what you're making? Of course you'd have to add LME and DME + some other things.

What I'm getting hung up on is that I don't necessarily know what combinations to use to re-create certain beers.. plus shortcuts like the one suggested above.

Check out the HBT recipe database. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82

Look up the style you want to brew and then if you're doing extract look at the ones that say extract. I would suggest using other recipes before attempting your own.

I'm not sure what you mean about toasting 2-row. Is that an ingredient that you saw listed in a recipe you want to do?

In a nutshell if you're doing extract beer, you can buy however much Pilsen Light or Light LME you want for a recipe. Then let's say you want to brew a Kolsch. The steeping grains might be 12oz Munich and 4 oz Carapils. Then you need hops so 1 oz of a low alpha acid like cascade or US Goldings for 60 minutes and 2 minute 1 oz addition.

If you use the light extract the steeping grain is where the real flavor/profile of the beer comes from. So essentially Light LME will work for any recipe.

I personally prefer all grain beer and had I known BIAB takes 30 or so minutes longer than an extract batch I would've started a long time ago. I've done 7 or 8 BIAB batches now and a lot more extract.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

If you look at a broad range of recipies you'll find that most start off with a healthy dose of base malt... generally about 10 pounds for a 5 gallon batch. If I were wishing to *save money* I'd probably get a sack of base malt ( american 2 row, american 6 row, etc) and use that in place of whatever base malt was called for. Use the remaining ingredients ( crystal, adjuncts, etc) as per the recipie. Will allow you to reduce costs amnd remain flexible on beers you can brew. OF course, now you'll need a grain mill, storage bins, etc... (the madness continues) I'm not sure you can really save money by brewing. If you want to go inexpensive, I'd buy a 6 pack or so.

 

[ZogCity2015]

I'm not into AG brewing yet, but my LHBS sells grains and has a mill right there in the store. Is this a luxury I will learn to appreciate later? Do many LHBS not offer grains in house? Or does buying in bulk just drop the price that much over what LHBS is charging for smaller amounts?

 

[Clonefan94]

I'm not into AG brewing yet, but my LHBS sells grains and has a mill right there in the store. Is this a luxury I will learn to appreciate later? Do many LHBS not offer grains in house? Or does buying in bulk just drop the price that much over what LHBS is charging for smaller amounts?

Any LHBS worth anything would sell grain in house. Mine also sells most base malts in bulk as well. Usually can get a sack of 2-row for about $40ish. That's usually where I go. Seems with grain, you can save a buck here or there, but the volume I brew, It's not worth the hassle to really shop for grains. By the time you add shipping, I'm not really saving all that much going outside my LHBS.

I tend to buy hops online though, by the pound, that's actually where I save a lot of money. Seems like the over-looked money saver sometimes if you are buying by the ounce and use a lot of the same hops. A Citra IPA I just made two weeks ago, would have cost me almost $30 in hops alone from my LHBS, but I got a pound of them for $22. So that can really trim a budget for you.

I have a vac sealer, so the hops stay pretty decent for quite a while. And as long as I use at least 8 oz. of the pound, I've saved money on them. I'm sure it's labor in packaging, but my LHBS really seems to gouge on an ounce of hops, with none going for less than $2.50/ounce and the popular ones being up around $3 or $4.

Then there is washing and re-using yeast. I don't do that, but a lot of people here do that with much success. If you use a lot of liquid yeasts, that can add up savings as well.

There is also the group buy options that people do on here. Honestly, I'm not brewing to save money, so I do try to buy what I can locally. Their grains are pretty much on par with everyone else, so I don't mind spending a few bucks there to help them out. Plus, to save the money, I'd need to buy more than I have room to store. That just adds to my hassle I'm not really concerned with right now. It's worth the few extra bucks I spend, to keep clutter to a minimum.

 

[normonster]

I've been reading on here where guys are buying grains that can used to brew multiple types of beer. Is that pretty much what you guys are doing? I guess then it would make sense to determine which recipes I like best and buy grains based on that.

I brew pretty much IPA, Pale Ale, Cream Ale and Wheat....all are basically 2-row with a tad of other stuff. Like the others I haven't saved a ton of money but the 2-row in bulk is a small savings and I'm going to buy Dextrin and probably Crystal 60 in bulk soon as well. I think buying my Cascade hops in bulk is probably going to end up saving me the most though, but you really have to store that stuff cold.

I think the main reason to go all grain is for the fun of mashing your own wort not the savings.

 

[normonster]

I took one of the brewer's best extract kit recipes and looked up the ingredients, and I can basically find everything, but I keep finding interesting things..



I looked up Victory Malt and I saw where someone said that you could actually just use basic 2-row and toast it in the oven @275 for 30 minutes.



Is this basically what you guys do? Get a small variety of malts and alter them based on what you're making? Of course you'd have to add LME and DME + some other things.



What I'm getting hung up on is that I don't necessarily know what combinations to use to re-create certain beers.. plus shortcuts like the one suggested above.

Dude, sounds like you need this magazine...250 clone brews. All have the extract and all grain recipes so you can see how they convert and get a great base of recipes to get you started. See my last post and compare Lagunitas IPA, Sierra Nevada Pale and one of the Cream Ales and you'll see what I was talking about with 2-row being the main malt for all those types of beers:

https://byo.com/store/byo-special-issues/250-classic-clone-recipes

You can also sub plain 2-row for Pale Malt.

Also for some great general brewing knowledge check out the online version of Palmers How to Brew:

Howtobrew.com

Get beersmith for your PC or tablet along with the above and you'll be rockin!!!!

 

[gregmosu]

Sorry, been away from my computer for too long and trying to catch up on all these posts.

I have a local HBS in town here. I got my start by buying a brewers best kit from them. I guess I need to head down there some afternoon when they aren't busy and talk to them about starting to buy in bulk.


Thanks for the link to that recipe book, but I think I'm going to check out the recipes posted on this site first.

I guess my overall goal is to truly understand brewing and add some of my own twists to the bathes... and maybe save some money at the same time. The two types that stand out right now are something like a brown ale and a white ale(wit). But thoset two probably have very little in common as far as grains are concerned.

 

[christyle]

Your best bet is to just continue brewing extract batches for now and start to try your own twists....dry hopping, hop variety changes, additives, fruits, aging, yeast variation. You can do a whole lot with extract kits.... I just made the switch recently, and have noticed a change in my quality, but it could be because i've got more experience and i'm being more diligent while brewing. There are a ton of basics to get down before the jump to all grain. Keep practicing extracts for now and get to know your Local shop guys. They can be very helpful and great to talk out issues, give advice, etc. I started out buying everything online, and it's really only worth it if they have a good sale or are giving shipping discounts. Shipping yeasts is never a good idea I've learned. Check out that recipe database, theres a ton of extract brews you can try out to get used to doing your own stuff rather than doing kits. Start to stockpile large amounts of different extracts to start knocking your costs down. Easier to store than a bunch of grain!

Buying grain in bulk is really only worth it if you have a mill (Unless your LHBS lets your come borrow theirs), the place to store the grain, and mostly if you brew a ton. Buying grain at the shop will be cheap, no mill to buy, no storage to deal with, no worries about having to compromise your recipe because you don't have the right malt, etc.

Your best way to ease into all grain more affordably is to get a BIAB setup for a 15gal kettle. I went with 2 coolers, and while nice, I could have done it cheaper and with less stuff with BIAB. Being able to hold temp for an hour in a cooler is great though.

Keep doing your research on stuff, reading, absorbing, and most importantly, BREWING. The only way to really learn is to try.

 

[brewprint]

If I could do it all over again I would've just started with BIAB. It literally takes about 30 minutes more and the beer tastes a lot better.

You will still have to learn your sanitizing techniques and cleanup etc. The only difference from BIAB and extract is you 'mash' the grain. Just hold the temp 145-158 for an hour and then hoist the bag to drain. Do it under a ladder (that's what I do).

You'll spend less on grain. Then you don't have to worry about shutting off the heat, dumping extract, getting up to a boil and keep stirring so the extract doesn't burn on the bottom of the kettle.

It's too bad they don't sell BIAB kits instead of extract kits. Hey there's a great idea. I believe that if they did people probably wouldn't do extract as a beginner.

 

[christyle]

If I could do it all over again I would've just started with BIAB. It literally takes about 30 minutes more and the beer tastes a lot better.

You will still have to learn your sanitizing techniques and cleanup etc. The only difference from BIAB and extract is you 'mash' the grain. Just hold the temp 145-158 for an hour and then hoist the bag to drain. Do it under a ladder (that's what I do).

You'll spend less on grain. Then you don't have to worry about shutting off the heat, dumping extract, getting up to a boil and keep stirring so the extract doesn't burn on the bottom of the kettle.

It's too bad they don't sell BIAB kits instead of extract kits. Hey there's a great idea. I believe that if they did people probably wouldn't do extract as a beginner.

I know for me, extracts were enough to figure out, I still think its a decent idea to start with.

What do you mean about BIAB kits? What's the difference between that and an all grain kit? Northern brewer sells BIAB kits fyi

 

[brewprint]

I know for me, extracts were enough to figure out, I still think its a decent idea to start with.

What do you mean about BIAB kits? What's the difference between that and an all grain kit? Northern brewer sells BIAB kits fyi

I don't disagree about extract being enough to figure out or a decent way to start. However all grain BIAB just means that you hold a temp for 60 minutes instead of steeping for 20-30 minutes. Then you don't have to mess with dumping in the extract and getting a boil and then getting a boil again. It's almost a 'wash.'

I did have to buy a larger pot and I bought a high powered probane burner to do full volume boils.

 

[normonster]

The advantage of those clones is the direct comparisons you can make. All good though! Brew on man!

 

[Calder]

It's too bad they don't sell BIAB kits instead of extract kits. Hey there's a great idea. I believe that if they did people probably wouldn't do extract as a beginner.

If you only had BIAB, few people would get into the hobby, as it would require extra burner and expensive pot; way too intimidating to most people.

However all grain BIAB just means that you hold a temp for 60 minutes instead of steeping for 20-30 minutes. Then you don't have to mess with dumping in the extract and getting a boil and then getting a boil again. It's almost a 'wash.'

I did have to buy a larger pot and I bought a high powered propane burner to do full volume boils.

Aha ... you agree with me on the burner and big pot.

I've been brewing for many years. I have a burner and a big pot, but never used them. I prefer to brew on the stove. I mash with a cooler, and can do a 1.050 5 gallon all-grain batch as a partial boil. Anything more I need to sub in extract. You get better efficiency from batch-sparge than BIAB (which I did for quite a while), which is a benefit to me as I am limited to the boil volume I can do.

Why 60 minutes? With today's malts. conversion is probably done in 20 minutes or less. You can drop your time to 30 minutes without any issues.

 

[brewprint]

If you only had BIAB, few people would get into the hobby, as it would require extra burner and expensive pot; way too intimidating to most people.



Aha ... you agree with me on the burner and big pot.

I've been brewing for many years. I have a burner and a big pot, but never used them. I prefer to brew on the stove. I mash with a cooler, and can do a 1.050 5 gallon all-grain batch as a partial boil. Anything more I need to sub in extract. You get better efficiency from batch-sparge than BIAB (which I did for quite a while), which is a benefit to me as I am limited to the boil volume I can do.

Why 60 minutes? With today's malts. conversion is probably done in 20 minutes or less. You can drop your time to 30 minutes without any issues.

I may try the less than 60 minute thing.

I'm brewing a double ipa today. My plan is to add an extra gallon of water during the mash and boil it off so I can achieve 70%. I haven't had any issue getting 75% on a consistent basis with gravities of 1.065. I only do higher than that.

 

[Garmoni]

Over the last few years I have brewed a few extract kits and am also thinking about moving to all grain brewing. I don't recall the cost of the kits and have not priced grain but it sounds like there is minimal difference in cost unless you take specific measures to buy in bulk, harvest yeast, etc. I believe a 5 gallon batch makes around 2 cases of beer. You can buy decent craft beer for not much more than the prices I'm seeing in some of these comments. The value from home brewing must come from doing something you like to do.

It's a shame the hobby is not more economical. I have been making wine for a long time and you can make very high end product for much less than you can buy commercially.

 

[christyle]

Unless you're brewing on a large scale, I don't think All grain is going to be more cost effective really. Or to make it so, you have to store lots of different types of grain and hops, which i'm not willing to do. At my LHBS, I can make a beer for around $25-50 depending on how many hops, that's usually the kicker. If I harvested yeast, that could be cheaper as well, but I don't want to store a bunch of yeasts or compromise a style because I have something else that will work on hand.

If you factor in all the equipment and associated stuff we buy for brewing, it doesn't usually boil down to being cheaper, but for most people, the control over the process, creativity associated with it and the pride of brewing it yourself is what makes us brew.

 

[gregmosu]

Thanks again all these posts and replies! Everything I've read on here has been very helpful.

I stopped by our local HBS and talked w/the owner for a while. I'm going to continue extract brewing for now, but with the idea that I switch over to all-grain sooner or later. I'm headed back over today to pick up a couple of brewers best kits and then we're going to look at some different additions that I can play around with. They also have a club that meets once a month and I'm planning on joining that as well.

Part of this decision is that my next purchase will be kegging equipment. The bottling process is WAY too much and I can't stand waiting another 3 or 4 weeks to start drinking. So, even if I have to wait a while to move to all grain brewing, these extract kits are still REALLY good. Last get together my family had, I took my witbier over and it was the first to go. My brother even said that sam adams summer ale was tasteless in comparison. I'll continue to read up and with any luck, I can make the switch sometime this summer.

 

[christyle]

Do you have a reliable means of fermentation temp control? I would look at that well before kegging. I've been brewing maybe 2 years and I still bottle. I'd like to keg but don't feel like putting that money out there yet. Bottle carbonation control is my biggest issue, but I like bottling for sharing with others.

Like said earlier, I'd try picking a recipe on here and making your own beer without a kit.

 

[Gavin C]

I know for me, extracts were enough to figure out, I still think its a decent idea to start with.

What do you mean about BIAB kits? What's the difference between that and an all grain kit? Northern brewer sells BIAB kits fyi

NB just scales the grain bill back for 3 gallons and adds a bag. There's your BIAB kit.

 

[gregmosu]

Do you have a reliable means of fermentation temp control? I would look at that well before kegging. I've been brewing maybe 2 years and I still bottle. I'd like to keg but don't feel like putting that money out there yet. Bottle carbonation control is my biggest issue, but I like bottling for sharing with others.

Like said earlier, I'd try picking a recipe on here and making your own beer without a kit.

I have a 2nd refrigerator that I plan on using for the kegs, but I don't know that I have a ton of control over the exact temp. But I thought that was the good thing about kegging.. using CO2 so that you could skip the bottling step?

 

[Gavin C]

....You get better efficiency from batch-sparge than BIAB (which I did for quite a while), which is a benefit to me as I am limited to the boil volume I can..

You probably should preface this statement with, " in my experience".

With BIAB efficiencies in excess of 80% are readily achievable. I'm not trying to knock you its just that it is one of the most commonly touted myths of BIAB, that low efficiency is the norm. I find 80 plus efficiency and consistency to be the norm. That is brew house efficiency with accurate measures of volume to the FV and Gravity.

Mash efficiencies in excess of 90% are my experience.

I too held this demonstrably incorrect view when I first started BIAB.

I'm sure with good methods batch sparging can result in equally favorable efficiency and consistency.

 

[brewprint]

You probably should preface this statement with, " in my experience".

With BIAB efficiencies in excess of 80% are readily achievable. I'm not trying to knock you its just that it is one of the most commonly touted myths of BIAB, that low efficiency is the norm. I find 80 plus efficiency and consistency to be the norm. That is brew house efficiency with accurate measures of volume to the FV and Gravity.

Mash efficiencies in excess of 90% are my experience.

I too held this demonstrably incorrect view when I first started BIAB.

I'm sure with good methods batch sparging can result in equally favorable efficiency and consistency.

What exactly are you doing to achieve that high of an efficiency with BIAB. Larger volume mashing/boils?

 

[pablosbrewing]

What exactly are you doing to achieve that high of an efficiency with BIAB.

Crushing your grain finer (double crush) - BIAB doesn't get stuck

 

[Gavin C]

What exactly are you doing to achieve that high of an efficiency with BIAB. Larger volume mashing/boils?

Nothing special. Just lots of little things and attention to detail.

You can see a better outline of my process in the thread below. You might see some things you are not doing.

Fine milling
Consistent milling
accurate measures of gravity, volume, temperature and weights to allow refining of the process
Water adjustments as needed
Mash ph adjustments as needed
No spills or mess

I sort of approach the process as I would if working in a lab

 

[brewprint]

Nothing special. Just lots of little things and attention to detail.

You can see a better outline of my process in the thread below. You might see some things you are not doing.

Fine milling
Consistent milling
accurate measures of gravity, volume, temperature and weights to allow refining of the process
Water adjustments as needed
Mash ph adjustments as needed
No spills or mess

I sort of approach the process as I would if working in a lab

I do a pretty good job for the most part but I have not touched mash ph adjustments.

 

[brewprint]

Crushing your grain finer (double crush) - BIAB doesn't get stuck

I have my supply store do a triple crush that is consistent. I find my efficiency consistent with OG <1.065. Above that it drops drastically. Today I attempted to brew a DIPA and ended up with 1.077 instead of 1.092. I mashed with an extra gallon but ended up with an extra 1/2 gallon. Had I made the correct measurements on water volume boil off I would've hit 1.089 or 1.090.

Live and learn.

 

[christyle]

I have a 2nd refrigerator that I plan on using for the kegs, but I don't know that I have a ton of control over the exact temp. But I thought that was the good thing about kegging.. using CO2 so that you could skip the bottling step?

I was saying FERMENTATION temp, not the bottling. When you brew your beers, where do you keep the carboy/bucket? Most experienced brewers keep it in an area or container where they can control the temperatures of the fermenting beer. Often a chest freezer or fridge with a temp controller to keep it in the prime range, or a brewbag they put ice packs in.

I'm not sure what your second statement means. You should still want to control the temp, unless it's a fridge that is meant to keep kegs cool, many people use chest freezers so they have a controller to keep temp cold, not freezing. I Iike to share my beer and having it bottled makes it easier to grab and go. It can be done with a keg but you need to bottle it up in a growler or use a bottling wand/tubing and cap it.