Mosaic S.M.A.S.H. (yellow rose clone)

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Just sampled at day 9 using 1968, prior to dry hop. Damn it's good. It seems done, at 1.014, started at 1.058 for 5.9%. I did a 800 mL vitality starter, and hit the wort with O2 per Normal, and it tore right through 65-68 F. Tempted to skip the dry hop...but did it anyways. I went wit 3 oz pellets for the boil additions, an ounce cryo whirlpool/10 minute hop stand at 175ish, and 1 oz cryo dry hop. I will keg this Wednesday, and should have tasting notes from my cousin in about 3 weeks. He's the expert, I've got nothing to compare it to...

I seem to be on this kick of brewing clones of beers that are so good you can't get them, and enjoying them without really caring how close it is!
 
First time brewing. Followed recipe here. Kegged it yesterday. Beer has a really bitter after taste. Anyone find this beer mellows with time?

I may have underpitched the yeast. It took about 30 hours to get going.
 
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Just sampled at day 9 using 1968, prior to dry hop. Damn it's good. ....

Results are in from Texas. My cousin says we nailed it, likes my version a bit better. As you can see from the pic, 1968 dropped pretty clear, also perhaps use of cryohops in the dry hop may have helped. My keg is about to run out, will be making this again early spring.
 
First time brewing. Followed recipe here. Kegged it yesterday. Beer has a really bitter after taste. Anyone find this beer mellows with time?

I may have underpitched the yeast. It took about 30 hours to get going.

I find Mosaic can get grassy/bitter this is a house brew and is usually on tap I’ve gone to warrior for bittering then mosaic additions at flame out and whirlpool the dry hop.
 
Also 90 min boil in my opinion makes a huge difference. I think Lone Pint has moved away from this and the beer has suffered. Just my opinion though
 
Also 90 min boil in my opinion makes a huge difference. I think Lone Pint has moved away from this and the beer has suffered. Just my opinion though

Lone pint no longer does a 90 minute boil? Is this a recent development?

I just grabbed some bottled 12/11/17 and it tastes significantly different that what I bought that was bottled on November.


Also 90 min boil in my opinion makes a huge difference. I think Lone Pint has moved away from this and the beer has suffered. Just my opinion though
 
Lone pint no longer does a 90 minute boil? Is this a recent development?

I just grabbed some bottled 12/11/17 and it tastes significantly different that what I bought that was bottled on November.

That is what I have heard but totally not verified so take it for what it is worth. I have family and friends in Houston and always get YR when there and I noticed the difference. A friend is the one who mentioned the shorter boil
 
As soon as I can rally myself to step out into the sub-freezing temperatures, I'll be brewing this again today. I find the notes about the 90 minute boil interesting: I've never seemed to need the 90 minutes on a Maris Otter SMASH, BUT hey, it's just a little water and I'm not running against the clock today so maybe I'll give it a shot! I'll boil for 90, use the extra time to do crap around the house, and bump the volume back up after the boil. I won't be able to give you any truly useful notes on the taste difference between the 60- and 90-minute boil since the last batch was so long ago but maybe it'll make a 90-minute convert out of me!
 
Probably the 90 minutes boil is more for those using 100% pils, which is what I understand Lonestar uses. Not sure boiling Maris Otter that long will do much good.
 
I heard somewhere a 90 minute boil is suppose to also help with shelf life stability, but don't recall the specifics. I drink my beer fast enough to not have to worry about that.
 
Probably the 90 minutes boil is more for those using 100% pils, which is what I understand Lonestar uses. Not sure boiling Maris Otter that long will do much good.

Yeah, I agree, now that I've gone back and actually read the beginning of the thread! When I wandered into the thread, I somehow had come to believe Yellow Rose was nothing more than a Maris Otter/ Mosaic SMASH. Reading up, I now realize it is a pilsner/mosaic SMASH. Welp, I guess that's 30 minutes and a gallon of water I won't be getting back! Regardless, brew day seemed to go fine so I'm still expecting a mighty fine brew.
 
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Results are in from Texas. My cousin says we nailed it, likes my version a bit better. As you can see from the pic, 1968 dropped pretty clear, also perhaps use of cryohops in the dry hop may have helped. My keg is about to run out, will be making this again early spring.

I thought 1968 would be a good choice. I have used it in other IPA's with great results. I am going to brew this fir the first time, and think I am going the same route. I never had Yellow Rose, so I don't have anything to compare it.
 
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I just finished a 4-liter starter using yeast from the dregs of 4 bottles of Yellow Rose. I'll have enough to set aside, and plenty for the 10-gallon batch that's mashing in my garage. I've made some nice SMaSH brews from Mosaic and Maris Otter in the past, so I'm looking forward to tasting what pilsner and Lone Pint's yeast bring to the plate.
 
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I just finished a 4-liter starter using yeast from the dregs of 4 bottles of Yellow Rose. I'll have enough to set aside, and plenty for the 10-gallon batch that's mashing in my garage. I've made some nice SMaSH brews from Mosaic and Maris Otter in the past, so I'm looking forward to tasting what pilsner and Lone Pint's yeast bring to the plate.
How did this turn out? And hints on the type of yeast they use?
 
How did this turn out? And hints on the type of yeast they use?
It came out great! We didn't do a side-by-side comparison, but one of my neighbors told me that I'd nailed it, while another said that he liked mine more than the real thing. We killed an entire keg in a few hours on St. Patrick's Day. The other keg didn't last much longer, so I just spun up another batch of Lone Pint's yeast to brew some more this week.

I don't know the origin of their yeast, but with a SMaSH you already know the grains and hops, so it may be be critical to nailing it. I'm sure other yeast would make tasty beers, too.

I did notice that mine dropped much clearer than the commercial beer after about 2 weeks in the keg. The only finings I used was a Whirlfloc tablet in the boil.

Here's the recipe I brewed:

Water:
Calcium: 77
Magnesium: 1
Sodium: 0
Sulphate: 117
Chloride: 52
Mash pH: 5.4

Recipe: Yellow Rosa
Style: American IPA

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.34 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.72 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 3.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 65.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
26 lbs Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 1 100.0 %
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 2 20.4 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 20.0 m Hop 3 24.7 IBUs
2.80 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 10.0 m Hop 4 20.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 5 -
4.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 6 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Lone Pint House Yeast [124.21 ml] Yeast 7 -
4.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

Mash at 150.
Ferment at 64.
Dry hopped after 3 days at 1.017.



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Here's what I know about this beer, giant post ahead:

I've successfully cloned Yellow Rose after many tries, and the only thing that has made it real was their house yeast. Trevor Brown (founder of Lone Pint) told me that the only two secrets they keep are their water and their yeast.

YEAST

I managed to get some of their yeast by simply asking via e-mail. Trevor was really nice and accommodating and invited me to come by one morning during a transfer to get a jar of slurry. If anyone chooses this route, definitely be aware that you're going to a functioning brewery during working hours so dress accordingly - as in, wear clothes that you don't mind getting yeast, beer, and caustic on. You also will be in their way. Not that your presence will be an intrusion, but the brewery is so small that you will probably be stepped over at least once. Basically, get in and get out. You can talk to the brewers on a tour day if you want to chit-chat.

Trevor told me that their yeast isn't one you can buy in stores. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it might have been when they first adopted that yeast. They founded the brewery in 2012, and with EthanH's information that the LP guys said they used a west coast yeast, it could be that a yeast from the west coast has come into production since 2012 that wasn't available then.

I've also taken that yeast and repitched it into 2 other beers, so I have a good idea on what flavors the yeast puts out, and I'm still puzzled as to its origin. It's definitely not Chico, probably not 090 either. Could be Pacman or 1332 Northwest Ale. Whatever it is, it's not a neutral yeast by any means, and is a very poor flocculator. There is a lot of bread dough, pale stone fruit, and a little tartness. It really accentuates hops, especially the passionfruit, mango, lychee "tropical" category that Mosaic falls into. It could also be a blend. Can't rule that out as a possibility.

WATER

I've been to the brewery, and they have a water filtration system, which I'm guessing is RO. Looking at the pic, it could also just be carbon block filtration, but they have some other tanks against the wall which appear to be connected. They also have an extensive supply of water salts. I imagine they build their water from scratch, and it definitely has a focus on Sulfate. They have more bags of gypsum than anything else.

Their system
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MALT

I love the DeFalco's guys, they're my LHBS, but their recipe is completely off. It was the one I used when I started my journey to clone this beer, and there were not enough hops, no dry hopping, and the wrong malt. I would urge people to not use that if they want to clone Yellow Rose. They also only say to boil for 60 minutes. For my first try at that I followed the recipe to a tee, and I got a hoppy DMS bomb. Whoops.

Weyermann Pilsner malt is mandatory here, hands down. No other malt I've tried even comes close to the flavor of that one. It's also the malt they use, so there's no reason to use anything else if you are attempting to clone it.

HOPS

I've always used pellet hops because I can't find any whole Mosaic hops, but I don't think it makes a difference. My latest brew, the successful clone, had just a bit less sharpness to the bitterness, which could be the difference between whole and pellet, or it could be water, or it could be that I didn't add enough bittering hops. I focused more on the late and whirlpool hopping. I used 7oz. in my 6 gallon batch, but I could have easily used half a pound.

RECIPE

For 6 gallons at the end of the boil (5.5 into the fermenter), and 70% efficiency:

OG - 1.064, FG - 1.014, 6.6% ABV, 64 IBU (Rager)
90 Minute Boil
90 Minute Mash @ 150F

14.5lb Weyermann Pilsner malt

All Mosaic hops
0.6oz @60
1.0oz @20
1.4oz @10
2.0oz @Whirlpool/Hopstand for 20 minutes (can be more)
2.0oz @Dry Hop 5 days (can definitely be more)

Lone Pint House Yeast (sub with fruity, hop focused yeast)

I used my standard "Pale & hoppy" water profile, but it could probably use a little more sulfate.

Calcuim: 96 ppm
Magnesium: 10 ppm
Sodium: 8 ppm (it's just what I have in my water)
Sulfate: 200 ppm
Chloride: 55 ppm
Bicarbonate: 16 ppm (again it's just what I have)

Add acid to bring pH down to 5.2-5.4 (I aim for 5.4 in my hoppy beers)


Side by side, I've never brewed a beer as cloned as this one. The only difference was that mine has just a touch less of a sharp hop bite than LP's. Other than that, the beers are identical. I ended up pouring one glass into the other they were so similar.

Sorry bout the megapost, I've tried to condense all my knowledge on this beer as best I can. Hope it helps someone. Good luck!

Want to brew this and try. I’m just wondering since this is an older post if you still stand by this recipe? I live in tx and recently had this and love love it so figured I’d attempt s clone for once and found your/this post. I don’t know much about water profile so was going to start off with trying just spring or ro water and add from there.
Any suggestions? Any thing you would change?
 
Is the yeast 090 possibly?
He says it's probably not 090 but from his description of it...sounds like it could be. Possibly cal ale 5 051?
 
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I’ll add another data point. I basically brewed Derp’s recipe. I’ve tried earlier recipes in this post but I like how Derp’s hop schedule provides good bittering and plenty of hop aroma.

The only place that I deviated was my choice of Yeast. I used K-97 dry yeast. Two reasons, K-97 does not like to floc, also I did not add any whirlflock. Also, I heard Trevor Kelly of Pizza Pint in Austin say that he uses Kolsch yeast in his NEIPA’s since he does not want yeast esters to interfere with the hops and Kolsch yeast produces sulfur which acts as a preservative to increase the shelf life of beers.

The beer next to the bottle is the original. The original has a little more aroma coming out of the bottle. But flavor and appearance are very close. The original was carbonated a little higher than my version. This was 2 weeks in the keg. Thanks for posting your recipe Derp, I’m calling this done and will not change anything with my recipe with the possible exception of trying Mosaic Cryo Hops.
 
A couple days after the post above, I did brew this. I adjusted the hop schedule a bit more. Reduced the early hops and went big at the end.

0.5 oz mosaic @30
0.5 oz mosaic @15
2 oz mosaic @ 10
2 oz mosaic @ 5
2 oz mosaic @ whirlpool at 170 degrees
3 oz mosaic dry hop - 2 DHs of 1.5 oz each for 3 days

Cracked my first bottle last night after 14 day ferment, 10 days in the bottle, and 4 more days in the fridge. Lucious fruity mosaic aroma and flavor. Low bitternes and very smooth. Easily the best beer I have made so far. Looking forward to doing a side by side with the real thing soon.


I just kegged and sampled this beer. Made exactly to your recipe. OMG got to be the best IPA I've made and one of the best beers I have made period and I have brewed over 70 batches. Dont know how close to the yellow rose it is but I don't care. Just a really good beer. I don't know what you did, but after reading recommendations about boiling pilsen grain for 90 minutes to avoid diacetyl flavors, that's what I did. Thanks for the recipe.
 
So I made this using the recipe from @Derp in post #95 above. I used about 20% pale 2 row malt because I had it and wanted to use it up. I used yeast harvested from Bell's Two Hearted Ale. Dry hop went in on day 3 while fermentation was still pretty active and used no fining during boil or in carboy. Cold crashed and bottled at 10 days. OG was 1.068; FG was 1.011 for 7.5%. Fermented in the low to mid 60s and let go up to 70 degrees to finish out. Bell's yeast did 83% AA. This is really good ale. Never had Yellow Rose and it is not sold here so I can't compare but this is awesome and I'll do it again.

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Re brewed this. Similar recipe, but at 5.6%. Again with Omegas fuller strain London 5 or 8?(Wy1968) Double dry hop, 1 oz cryo day 4, 1.5 oz regular mosaic day 8. Cold crashed day 13, force carbed for a party with the keg shake method, served day 15, and it was surprisingly good. It ends up clearer than lone pint, but is amazing. Now my house pale ale.
 
So I got to compare my version with the real thing this weekend. Tasted near identical. The haze was about the same. Yellow Rose had much better head retention. This is a SMaSH so how do they make good foam? Also, what makes it hazy?
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Used Belg Pilsner and Mosaic...Smooth Baby Smooth! A touch of melon on the nose but grapefruit and a little tangerine in the taste? They dont sell to many Texas beers here in ohio so ill take everybodys word on the taste of the real thing. We'll brew again! Carry on!
 

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Recipe based on post number 95 above. I did a step mash this time. 142* 20 minutes, 160* 30 minutes, 170* 20 minutes. Nice foam. My hop (all Yakima Valley 2020 Mosaic) schedule was slightly different. For 3.5 gallons:
10g 60 min
20g 20 min
25g 5 min
28g 20 steep/whirlpool starting at 170
35g 2 day dryhop after cold crash and raised back up to 55
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Brewed a double batch of this a few months ago. 3rd or 4th time brewing this recipe, inspired by my cousin in Houston who worships this beer. Life has slowed down my brewing, so I tossed this in a comp to fill out my 3 entries (nothing else left). Did well in pale ale category well past its prime. This is the best smash beer imho , so simple, so good. I did barke Pilsner, single infusion at 150 168 mashout biab. hop schedule similar to the post above, 20 ibu at 60 min, , 10 at 20 min, 4 ibu at 5 min, 3 oz in the whirlpool, 4 oz in the dry hop for 10 gallons. Water relatively soft with 1.5:1 Cl to SO4. I mention the comp because I really want more people to brew this with wy1968 aka fullers, aka omega British 8. I use the omega, with starter. 68 fir 3 days, then 70-72 for 7 more. All the dry hops in day 3. (KISS). Cold crash if you can keep O2 out, but otherwise skip it. One thing is with fullers this beer drops very clear, so not at all hazy like the original. Looks like a helles, tastes like a New England.
 

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