Minimum space required

[GRBC]

I received a tentative go-ahead from SWMBO on the possibility of incorporating an electric brewery into our upcoming basement remodel. However, she is a skeptic and has challenged me to layout the space & budget requird.

I have all my brewing stuff piled into this corner of our basement which is about 6 feet wide and 4.5 feet deep (to the front of the "bar").

I am hoping to build a 3 vessel 20 gallon brew system with a vent hood, Kal-style control panel, and a sink. Any experience or guesses here about the minimum amount of space required? Thanks!

 

[GRBC]

Any thoughts on fitting a brew table, control panel & sink into this space?

 

[Thedutchtouch]

Minimum space required would be the diameter of your pots, plus a few inches. We can't really tell you from a picture, but sure, looks like it would fit fine.

 

[stlbeer]

It looks tight, but could most certainly work. Any thoughts on removing any of the built in shelving? What is the vent pipe going out the window? Dryer? Could you utilize that for a vent hood?

 

[GRBC]

Thanks for replying! Yes, the paneled walls and shelving would come out, as would the bar.

That is a dryer vent. I was thinking I could vent the hood there too. The washer/dryer are just to the left of the wall on the left.

Our electric panel is behind the small door next to the built in shelves.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[stlbeer]

Sweet! With the washer and electrical panel nearby you'll have the resources you'll need to brew. What about a drain? One thing you'll want to consider is do you have room for a sink.

 

[GRBC]

No drain. Will look into a sink and a pump to get the water up to the sewer line. I think I saw that in another build thread on here.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

You can turn that into a good brew space, have you checked what kind of electrical service you have available for the brewery?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[GRBC]

If you hadn't already noticed, I'm not to savvy 'bout these things. How would I check the electric service?

 

[GRBC]

Maybe this will help. Here's a wider angle view of the space including the laundry.



And here is the fuse box.



Does that help?

 

[GRBC]

Oh, and that is my Flanders red finishing a 30 day primary in the bucket. Need to rack that thing to my 5 gallon better bottle!

 

[Jim_Holmes]

how is your washer drain set up? could you tie into it to run a drain line for a sink check valve and trap would keep washer water from coming back on you

 

[GRBC]

how is your washer drain set up? could you tie into it to run a drain line for a sink check valve and trap would keep washer water from coming back on you

The washer has a rubber hose running out the back and that loops up to the white PVC pipe which connects down into what appears to be the main sewer line running out of the house.

I guess the washing machine has an internal pump that pumps the water up and out? I assume that is not something I can tie into?




By the way, the whit PVC pipe also appears to be draining either the kitchen or the bathroom above.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

If you hadn't already noticed, I'm not to savvy 'bout these things. How would I check the electric service?

That panel looks full, maybe some of the electrical gurus here can give you some advice on ways to make space. You need two spaces for a 240 breaker, whether you go 30amp or 50 is something else you should consider. I think you mentioned a remodel, if you're planning on getting an electrician involved they can certainly get you set up on that end. BTW this is also the time to think about where your GFI protection is going.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[GRBC]

You guys are great. Thanks.

I have been reading on Kal's site about 30 amp vs. 50. If I understand correctly, for my 10 gallon batches, I would really only need 50 amp if I want to do back-to-back batches - running the HLT element for mashing batch 2 while running the BK element for the boil of batch 1.

Are the GFI options basically in the main panel or in a spa panel?

 

[Roadie]

To put the sink and 3 20 gallon kettles on the same wall you need about a 9' run. Check out my build which sounds similar to what you want. My space is kind of an L shape but I have two walls that are each 11' and I have things crammed in there wishing I had more space.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[gunmetal]

The electrical panel looks pretty packed. From the photo, it looks like there are 7 240 volt breakers already in the panel, which I can't imagine what they all are for. The top two on the right, and the top three on the left and the bottom two on the left. A 240 volt breaker will take up two spaces. From the labeling, it appears the top right is AC? If you do not have central air conditioning, maybe two separate ac's? , both on 240 volt, the top left is range?, and below that is dryer?. Can't read what the others are, If you have electric furnace, that would be one. Electric water heater would be another. The second down on the right appears to not be labeled. Can't tell if they feed a sub panel. You could always run a 30 amp off of the dryer outlet, with a spa panel as a GFI, which means the brewery is plugged in or the dryer, sorry
SWMBO.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

I have been reading on Kal's site about 30 amp vs. 50. If I understand correctly, for my 10 gallon batches, I would really only need 50 amp if I want to do back-to-back batches - running the HLT element for mashing batch 2 while running the BK element for the boil of batch 1.

Are the GFI options basically in the main panel or in a spa panel?

That's the gist of it, I went with 30amp because I only have 100amp service to the whole house, I live in MS so I need to be able to run the AC and brew at the same time. I think most would suggest going bigger if you have the funds and capacity, even if you don't brew back to back you can heat strike water in the BK while heating the HLT.

As for GFI, the simplest method is using a GFI breaker, but that can get rather expensive. The spa panel method is well documented here on HBT, and is generally the least expensive method. There are also in-line GFI cords out there on ebay (for example), that you can adapt to suit your purpose, I think they are mostly cords for copy machines.

I looked into the GFI cords, but I didn't find much and the ones I did find were too expensive. I got lucky and found a GFI breaker for my GE panel that was about the same price as a spa panel. My advice is to search around the internets, you may find a good deal, but spa panel is probably your best bet.

There are a lot of great Kal clone builds on here such as Huaco's. Roadie's is certainly a good example of an awesome brew space. I know I spent many days researching on here before I bought the first LED.



Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[dmcman73]

I had an even tighter space for mine and this is what I came up with, works great. My pots are 10gal but you can make the stand larger to fit the 20 gallon pots. The control panel is mounted to a heavy duty TV mount so I can swing if out during use and tuck it away (as it is now) when not. The HLT is right below the cooler MT. I installed a 10x6 vent right behind the brew kettle on the wall, it works just as good as a hood. It's connected to a 6 inch duct with a 400 cfm inline fan.

 

[BigFloppy]

The electrical panel looks pretty packed. From the photo, it looks like there are 7 240 volt breakers already in the panel, which I can't imagine what they all are for. The top two on the right, and the top three on the left and the bottom two on the left. A 240 volt breaker will take up two spaces. From the labeling, it appears the top right is AC? If you do not have central air conditioning, maybe two separate ac's? , both on 240 volt, the top left is range?, and below that is dryer?. Can't read what the others are, If you have electric furnace, that would be one. Electric water heater would be another. The second down on the right appears to not be labeled. Can't tell if they feed a sub panel. You could always run a 30 amp off of the dryer outlet, with a spa panel as a GFI, which means the brewery is plugged in or the dryer, sorry
SWMBO.

friend of mine told me to look into 1/2 size breakers cause I'm in same situation with a full breaker box

 

[jekeane]

On an unrelated note that dryer vent looks like a fire hazard. With a hard 90 running up to that window I would be amazed if there wasn't piles of lint stuck in that line.

 

[GRBC]

Follow up question/concern from SWMBO about the electric panel being right behind the space where the table & kettles would be. The panel is behind the small door that is visible in the first picture. Something about water & electricity not being a good combination...?

Would it be reasonable to wall that off/box it in a way that is watertight? Is moving the panel a big deal ($$)?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Moving a panel is a big pain. Better to build a cabinet if you're worried about.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[iijakii]

Personally I would just patch that door up a little more. Put some plastic and weatherstripping or something.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks like a great brew room space you've got. That bar may become useful as a real bar again.

I'm not an electrician.
But from experience, moving an electrical panel gets you involved in all kinds of code ****, and inspections. What's there is grandfathered in, and usually exempt, unless you modify it. You can easily blow 2 or 3 budgets on that.

Unless the whole electrical system is a true hazard, which it doesn't look to be from the pix, leave it as is. That said, you can replace existing or add new breakers as long as the newly created circuits are "up to code." <ugh>.

Do you have a lot of electrical baseboard heaters around the house? Those 240V breakers hint to that.

 

[GRBC]

We do have electric baseboard heaters in one room. That's helpful since we have literally never used them. Guess I just found my 240v circuit!

 

[GRBC]

On an unrelated note that dryer vent looks like a fire hazard. With a hard 90 running up to that window I would be amazed if there wasn't piles of lint stuck in that line.

By the way, we did have that dryer vent cleaned about a year ago and it was full of lint! Thanks.

 

[kal]

My previous brewery was in a pretty small space and had the same 3 x 20 gallon kettles and my control panel, plus a sink.

Take a look at my brew stand article for lots of pictures and measurements if the sort of space you may need: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-stand

Kal

 

[GRBC]

Progress!

The basement remodel is underway and will include a 6'x7' brewing space! Here's a picture of the space demo'd and with the framing up.



I have bought a 54"x18"x20" bamboo top gladiator workbench which will act as the brew stand (inspired by orangecrush). Planning to buy a Kal panel and 20 gallon kettles.

Will have a 6 foot bamboo top gladiator work table on the opposite wall that I am going to drop a 28"x20"x12" stainless sink into.

Have a local quote for a 60"x24"x12" stainless condensate hood which will vent out where the dryer vents today. Got my vortex fan today.

Going to tile the space and have a floor drain that ties into the existing basement drain.

We are also updating the house to a 200 amp electrical service which means a new panel (with room for my control panel).

Wish me luck!

 

[Roadie]

Nice plan. Bon Chance!


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[number40fan]

Is the existing drain that you are going to tie into run though the 6' x 7' area?

 

[GRBC]

No. We are going to have to bust up about 5 feet of the concrete floor to get to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kevreh]

Progress!

The basement remodel is underway and will include a 6'x7' brewing space! Here's a picture of the space demo'd and with the framing up.

View attachment 214536

I have bought a 54"x18"x20" bamboo top gladiator workbench which will act as the brew stand (inspired by orangecrush). Planning to buy a Kal panel and 20 gallon kettles.

Will have a 6 foot bamboo top gladiator work table on the opposite wall that I am going to drop a 28"x20"x12" stainless sink into.

Have a local quote for a 60"x24"x12" stainless condensate hood which will vent out where the dryer vents today. Got my vortex fan today.

Going to tile the space and have a floor drain that ties into the existing basement drain.

We are also updating the house to a 200 amp electrical service which means a new panel (with room for my control panel).

Wish me luck!

Good progress...glad your updating that panel. Things were starting to get a little hairy there.

Moving a panel to a new location, say 6' away, can be a big deal because some wires will need to be extended.

New drain is smart too. Draining above your head is a bad idea....both for the brewery and washer.

 

[GRBC]

Real progress being made now.


Here is the new panel:


With a new 30 amp 240v outlet.


Also have tied into the original basement floor drain for the brewery sink & floor drain (and the washing machine too):


Have plumbing in the walls (frames) for hot water to the HLT and cold to the CFC.


And last, but not least....look what came in the mail today! Thanks to the good folks at Stout who were a pleasure to deal with.

 

[mikescooling]

Nice.... How thick are those pots?

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

And last, but not least....look what came in the mail today! Thanks to the good folks at Stout who were a pleasure to deal with.

In for a penny, in for a pound. Haha!

Looks great, you're gonna have a nice setup.

 

[Rivenin]

Waiting for updates! this is fantastic

 

[Butchhe]

Following.

 

[GRBC]

Thanks guys. Progress is being made.

Here's the brewery with the cement board added:


With the tile going on:


The vent fan boxed in and duct to outside installed:


And the floor prepped for paint tomorrow!


Wouldn't you know that I ended up 9 tiles short and they come in a box of 8. Oh well, I guess having a few extra is a good thing.

 

[Butchhe]

Some nice shiny beer bling is going to look awesome against those tiles! What are your plans for the floor?