Mill motor questions

[sandyeggoxj]

Hey guys,

I have a monster mm2-2.0. I want to motorize it. I found a 1/4hp motor that I think will work. It is a great price. It turns at 1725 rpm and is frame 56z. Does anyone make a gear reducer for it? I could do the pulley thing if I need to help stay on the cheap but I like the gear reducer thing.

 

[wilconrad]

Check Surplus Center, they usually have pretty good deals on motors and gear reducers, e.g. this one

 

[sandyeggoxj]

That looks pretty good. Thanks for that link.

So it looks like I'll need a Lovejoy between the motor and reducer and the reducer and the mill. That is easy enough. I think I'll start with that 1/4 HP motor. With the gear reduction it should be enough power. It is a small mill anyways. If it doesn't work then I'll just size up the motor.

 

[outside92129]

What price is the motor you're looking at? Ebay has some great ones that come up here and there. I got a 1/2HP for my MM for $25.... and spent $100 on the gear reducer : )

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I was looking at $30 for a Dayton motor. I'll check eBay!!

 

[govner1]

That looks pretty good. Thanks for that link.

So it looks like I'll need a Lovejoy between the motor and reducer and the reducer and the mill. That is easy enough. I think I'll start with that 1/4 HP motor. With the gear reduction it should be enough power. It is a small mill anyways. If it doesn't work then I'll just size up the motor.

You'll need two Lovejoys plus a spider on the input and output sides. Make sure you get the correct sizing for each shaft.
I went with the Powergrinder which comes w/ a built in gear reduction thus only needed two Lovejoys and one spider.
When you add up the cost of the separate gear reduction unit. & extra spiders it's almost a push. You also get more power & built in capacitor.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm pretty sure 1/4 HP isn't going to do it unless you reduce 20:1.

 

[bja]

I'm pretty sure 1/4 HP isn't going to do it unless you reduce 20:1.

I was thinking that 1/4 hp would be plenty big enough, especially with a 10-1 reduction.

 

[Owly055]

Rig a torque wrench on the shaft of the mill and see how many foot pounds it takes to turn it while grinding. Horsepower = (torque * RPM)/5252

Thus a one horse motor will put out approximately 3 foot pounds of torque at a shaft speed of 1725, or 1.5 foot pounds at a shaft speed of 3450.

If it takes 20 foot pounds of torque to turn the shaft and you are using a 1/4 HP motor turning 1725 RPM, you can figure the motor to put out .75 foot pounds of torque. Divide 20 by .75 to get your reduction of 26.666:1 Your RPM will then be about 66.

In any case use 3/4 of a foot pound for a 1/4 HP 1725 motor. Half that for 3450.


Howard

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I'll have to find a torque wrench that reads that low. All of mine are 50-250ft/lb

 

[Stealthcruiser]

You will need a dial type torque wrench, if ya' didn't know that already.........Wit a "tattle tail " on it would be nice too.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Yeah I know. I use em when checking pinion preloaded while setting up differential gears. Those little guys are in in/lb which would probably yield a more accurate measurement if you guys think I'll be looking for a couple foot pounds.

 

[bja]

Yeah I know. I use em when checking pinion preloaded while setting up differential gears. Those little guys are in in/lb which would probably yield a more accurate measurement if you guys think I'll be looking for a couple foot pounds.

Search for motorized mill threads. I'm sure I've seen quite a few of them where people have successfully used 1/4 hp motors.

 

[Bobby_M]

When you do your research, be sure to pay attention to whether the user has a MM2-2.0 or not. The 2" roller requires more torque.

 

[Owly055]

There are three kinds of common torque wrenches..... the old needle style, the dial type, and the click, which is the most popular today. Any of them theoretically should work, the click being the most difficult to get a decent reading from because of the "break out" force. getting the mill to turn will take more force than keeping it turning.

Another alternative is to find a large constant speed electric drill........ Usually 500 RPM or some such speed. Drive the mill with the drill, and measure the current required using a clamp on amp meter. Watts can be amps can be converted to watts ( volts * amps ). Watts to horsepower. 1 watt = 0.00134102209 horsepower.

The easiest way by far is to learn from the successes and failures of others.... Who's got a monster mill with a motor on it........ What horsepower.... what reduction? It would be nice to know how many amps and what the roller setting is. Remember that .030 spacing will take far less power than .010 spacing.

I can do trial and error testing..... due to a collection of pulleys, belts and motors. I could hook up a 1.5 HP motor with a "that looks about right" reduction without investing any money to speak of, clamp my amp meter on, and calculate the reduction needed for 1/4 HP............. But I'd rather "cut paper" than cut iron, so I'd begin with my old pointer type toque wrench.......... Or if below the range of that torque wrench, use my inch pound dial torque wrench. I like doing things ONCE. It saves time............ and it saves MONEY.


H.W.

 

[Bobby_M]

Any idea how to connect a torque wrench to a mill shaft?

 

[Owly055]

I'd find a socket that fits over the shaft, and simply hot glue it in place.

H.W.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Does the motor frame matter? I'm looking at 1/2hp 48y for $89 or 56z for $106. Both are marathon 1725rpm 115vac motors. Going Into a 10:1 gear reducer.

 

[broncosmoker]

Does the motor frame matter? I'm looking at 1/2hp 48y for $89 or 56z for $106. Both are marathon 1725rpm 115vac motors. Going Into a 10:1 gear reducer.

Yes it will matter in your reducer. You have to match them up from base up to center of shaft is 3 1/2 inches where a 48 is 3 inches. If you are matching footprints there in also a difference in that measurement.

Ideally find yourself a 56c motor and reducer as they are the most common especially for repairs. That also gives you a standard 5/8 which fits in most reducers directly without adapters and use lovejoys on output shaft to MM

 

[HopSong]

OK GUYS.. HERE is one you HAVE to look at. Steve is a very responsive guy and sells an awesome motor. Check out his website for a good video. The motor is 120V and has a built-in gear reducer that brings the speed down to 180 or 240RPM with a ton of torque... and it's reversible in case you get a stuck sparge... er Grind.

check it out here: AllAmericanAleWorks.com

 

[sandyeggoxj]

That seems like a good deal but his website is impossible to use. I can't even buy it? Or calculate shipping or eta. Less than motivated after trying to use the website. If you know him tell him I can't figure out how to buy it. And I'm a "young kid" who is supposed to be good at this ****.

 

[milldoggy]

I have that mill and the harbor freight low speed drill works great. Much cheaper solution. Set the rpm, lock the trigger, dump grain in

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have that mill and the harbor freight low speed drill works great. Much cheaper solution. Set the rpm, lock the trigger, dump grain in

Yes I feel the same, it is a great inexpensive pre built solution.

Some prefer to engineer and build a more expensive, more sophisticated "better" solution in their opinion. I guess a lovejoy removes eccentric loading on the driveshaft?

What fun is merely purchasing a big Chinese drill when you can design build a power plant.

The build is the enjoyment I'd imagine, as well as a "better" end result.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[govner1]

OK GUYS.. HERE is one you HAVE to look at. Steve is a very responsive guy and sells an awesome motor. Check out his website for a good video. The motor is 120V and has a built-in gear reducer that brings the speed down to 180 or 240RPM with a ton of torque... and it's reversible in case you get a stuck sparge... er Grind.



check it out here: AllAmericanAleWorks.com

+++1 on this motor/reduction set up. I used it to build my grain mill and it works flawlessly. You do need to pay attention to the shaft dimensions & the need for a keyway or not when ordering your Lovejoys. I ordered mine via a local distributor & the drop shipped to me.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wilconrad]

OK GUYS.. HERE is one you HAVE to look at. Steve is a very responsive guy and sells an awesome motor. Check out his website for a good video. The motor is 120V and has a built-in gear reducer that brings the speed down to 180 or 240RPM with a ton of torque... and it's reversible in case you get a stuck sparge... er Grind.

check it out here: AllAmericanAleWorks.com

This thing is definitely sweet, but it's overkill for the application. This motor could handle this load 24/7 in a production/factory environment. That's awesome and I've got no problem with it at all other than cost.

If money is no object, drop the $200 and you'll have an awesome setup that will never fail. If you're looking to keep it cheap, there are other options that will get the job done. A cheap drill from craigslist/HF will do it. Motors designed for intermittent use will also do it; I used a repurposed garage door motor that I picked up for $10 and it's done a great job for more than a year. Here's a thread on the topic and below is a video of my mill starting with a full hopper.

Since I'm only using this thing for ~5 minutes a few times a month, I'm not concerned about it's durability in this application. Besides, if it does eventually fail, it'll cost me $10 to swap out the whole motor/gearbox assembly for a brand new one.

Again, I'm not trying to say that the Power Grinder isn't a great motor option, because it is. I'm just trying to point out that if cost is a concern, there are other options that will get the job done for less $.

 

[HopSong]

Wilconrad.. yes, it may be overkill, but.. I have a great Milwaukee variable speed drill that has both a high/low switch. Still, I can NOT control the speed well enough to get low RPM and wind up shredding my husks. YMMV. I have searched high and low for an AC/120v motor that is reversible with LOW RPM's and good torque... where I would not have to use pulleys and a V-Belt. I'm biting the bullet and going for this baby as soon as they arrive.

Govner.. great setup... congrats.. I also have a MM 3 roller like you.. it takes more torque than grinding with a 2 roller.

 

[wilserbrewer]

View attachment 227624View attachment 227625

Kind of like a high end luxury automobile, or premium tools, you don't NEED them, but they sure are nice and work well! That's a great build. And while that entire mill set up costs some dough, really not much at all when you consider some spend more on one golf club.

 

[govner1]

This thing is definitely sweet, but it's overkill for the application. This motor could handle this load 24/7 in a production/factory environment. That's awesome and I've got no problem with it at all other than cost.



If money is no object, drop the $200 and you'll have an awesome setup that will never fail. If you're looking to keep it cheap, there are other options that will get the job done. A cheap drill from craigslist/HF will do it. Motors designed for intermittent use will also do it; I used a repurposed garage door motor that I picked up for $10 and it's done a great job for more than a year. Here's a thread on the topic and below is a video of my mill starting with a full hopper.



Since I'm only using this thing for ~5 minutes a few times a month, I'm not concerned about it's durability in this application. Besides, if it does eventually fail, it'll cost me $10 to swap out the whole motor/gearbox assembly for a brand new one.



Again, I'm not trying to say that the Power Grinder isn't a great motor option, because it is. I'm just trying to point out that if cost is a concern, there are other options that will get the job done for less $.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eypfWb20C_0

I bought mine direct from the company on eBay for $160 delivered!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[govner1]

Kind of like a high end luxury automobile, or premium tools, you don't NEED them, but they sure are nice and work well! That's a great build. And while that entire mill set up costs some dough, really not much at all when you consider some spend more on one golf club.

You can invest in a Benz or buy Chevy. You'll definitely get more from your investment!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[AnOldUR]

You can invest in a Benz or buy Chevy. You'll definitely get more from your investment!

Not if the Chevy out lives you. :cross:

 

[govner1]

That's a really big IF!

 

[AnOldUR]

That's a really big IF!

Not really. It's not as pretty as a Benz, but I expect that my cheap surplus gear motor will be around well after I'm gone. I'm all for bling if that what you're into, but saying you get more for your money other than personal satisfaction is not always the case.

 

[KBVC]

I bought mine direct from the company on eBay for $160 delivered!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Govner, can you tell me where on eBay your purchased the motor?

 

[govner1]

Power Grinder had it listed plus I had a 10% off coupon from eBay.

 

[KBVC]

Power Grinder had it listed plus I had a 10% off coupon from eBay.

Was Power Grinder the seller? I can't find it on eBay either by searching the user name or by the specs of the motor.

 

[govner1]

Yes. Maybe it was a limited sale.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[sandyeggoxj]

After emailing the seller and looking at older threads on the AHA forum and such I am unimpressed with the All American ale Works motor. I still have to buy all the switches and lovejoys. It is just an expensive gear motor with astronomical shipping costs. I'll just keep looking for the "ultimate solution."

 

[govner1]

After emailing the seller and looking at older threads on the AHA forum and such I am unimpressed with the All American ale Works motor. I still have to buy all the switches and lovejoys. It is just an expensive gear motor with astronomical shipping costs. I'll just keep looking for the "ultimate solution."

You're going to have to wire the switches for almost any motor you buy. But, that allows you to customize the functions & placement. You'll also need Lovejoys for your setup. The motor & mill shafts rarely have the same dimensions but even if they're the same you've got to connect them.
I cannot speak to the shipping since mine was N/C.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
By the way, as for shipping costs it does weigh in at 32+ lbs.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a few of these motors left from the old Xerox engineering machines I serviced.... they work well. The gear reduction box is setup for about 60rpm which is slow for me so I used pulleys to speed it up to about 180rpm which works well. They have the capacitors mounted with them and I would be willing to part with them for a reasonable price or trade if anyone is interested.

 

[AnOldUR]

Nice gear motor!

If my calculations are correct, it's got about 84 in-lb of torque at 60 RPM (using 80% eff).

Running at 180 RPM puts you down below 30 in-lb. That would be low for a mill with 2" rollers, but should work well enough on a mill with 1-1/4" rollers if the rollers aren't too long.