Maximizing esters in Hefeweizen - what's your tricks?

[Mongster]

Howdy folks.
I don’t know how popular Hefeweizen is in the US, but it is quite popular in Europe.
I’ve been brewing several batches of it, always hunting for those pleasant banana/bready aromas (I call it the Ompa factor).
However, I am still not satisfied with the results (decent weissbier, but I’d like more of those aromas/flavors).
So, for those of you who like to brew hefeweizen, I am curious on what you do to maximize the Ompa factor. Any advice will be highly appreciated.
The things I do:
- Limiting the oxygen on wort into the fermenter
- Slightly underpitching yeast
- Using Weihenstephan Yeast from Wyeast
- Fermenting at high temperature (around 80 F)

Cheers,
Mongster

 

[giraffe]

I prefer to open ferment at 62-65 with 3638. I oxygenate normally, and pitch maybe 10% less than mr malty says. That seems to get me close to the ester profiles of a Schneider type hefe, (you may be going for something different, there are ones that are more of a banana bomb). I use around 70% white wheat. I find compared to less wheat, it has more of the bready aroma.

 

[rhys333]

I under-pitch 3068 and ferment at around 72F. I also open ferment (i.e.: loose lid) on a wide bucket for increased surface area. I get a fair amount of complex banana esters without being overpowering.

 

[electrolight]

I don't know what to do either. I've made 3 batches of edworts Bavarian Hefeweizen and each time the aroma is just perfect. I mean I hit the nail on the head. But the flavor is just lacking that hefe-ey flavor. It's not a bad tasting beer. But I can't nail it either. I'll have to try the open ferment thing next time.

How long do you leave it open? Are you never concerned about post-ferment aeration?

 

[rhys333]

How long do you leave it open? Are you never concerned about post-ferment aeration?

I open ferment for 48 hours usually, as I also top-crop yeast (scim at 24 hours, collect at 48 ). After that I lock down the lid and add an airlock for the duration.

 

[gbx]

Howdy folks.
I don’t know how popular Hefeweizen is in the US, but it is quite popular in Europe.
I’ve been brewing several batches of it, always hunting for those pleasant banana/bready aromas (I call it the Ompa factor).
However, I am still not satisfied with the results (decent weissbier, but I’d like more of those aromas/flavors).
So, for those of you who like to brew hefeweizen, I am curious on what you do to maximize the Ompa factor. Any advice will be highly appreciated.
The things I do:
- Limiting the oxygen on wort into the fermenter
- Slightly underpitching yeast
- Using Weihenstephan Yeast from Wyeast
- Fermenting at high temperature (around 80 F)

Cheers,
Mongster

I'm told you want to do the opposite of all those thing (except the weihenstephan part). On the Jamil podcast he said your pitching temp and ambient ferment temp should total no more than 30C. I have a done the last 3 in the 15C/60F range (14C pitch temp/16C ambient temp) and have been really happy with the esters/malt balance - clove and banana are there but don't completely over power the 50% pilsner malt. The only downside is a lot of sulphur is produced. Anyone know the best way to condition that out?

 

[electrolight]

I open ferment for 48 hours usually, as I also top-crop yeast (scim at 24 hours, collect at 48 ). After that I lock down the lid and add an airlock for the duration.

Awesome. Thanks for the tips. I'll have to try that. And I read up on top-cropping. When you skim and collect... we're talking about the foam right? Or should we be grabbing the uppermost layer of wort?

Thanks for the tips and sorry if I'm hijacking a bit here.

 

[mhot55]

WY 3068 fermented at 62-63* has given me my best hefes. Also i posted a while back about a BYO article regarding pulling "banana" esters. If recall- I step mash starting at 95* and make steps at 105*, 125*, and 149* etc. I always follow these routines making Hefes and love the balanced yet pronounced esters.

 

[rhys333]

When you skim and collect... we're talking about the foam right? Or should we be grabbing the uppermost layer of wort

Yes, just the foam part. You really don't want to grab any of the wort as it can keep fermenting in your jar after collection. With 3068 the krausen is really thick like whipped cream, so you'll have no problem skimming it off. There's a video on You Tube that demonstrates a simple but very effective procedure (Pogues song playing in background). Just keep your process clean and follow the same 24/48hr schedule every time to maintain yeast strain characteristics. I've done this a few times with 3068 and many generations with West Yorkshire 1469. Have fun!

 

[Mongster]

I'm told you want to do the opposite of all those thing (except the weihenstephan part). On the Jamil podcast he said your pitching temp and ambient ferment temp should total no more than 30C. I have a done the last 3 in the 15C/60F range (14C pitch temp/16C ambient temp) and have been really happy with the esters/malt balance - clove and banana are there but don't completely over power the 50% pilsner malt. The only downside is a lot of sulphur is produced. Anyone know the best way to condition that out?

I think I obtained the ester-maximising information from this link:
http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/03/07/esters-in-beer-brewing/

 

[gbx]

I think I obtained the ester-maximising information from this link:
http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/03/07/esters-in-beer-brewing/

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell#Primary_fermentation

 

[Mongster]

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell#Primary_fermentation

Interesting.
Looks like there are several schools of thought on this topic.
I think I will do an experiment next time I brew hefe: make a split-batch with quite different fermenting conditions and see which one comes out best (hmm..might be a suitable topic for a future brewing movie..)

-m-

 

[pdxal]

Ferrulic acid rest at ~125°F, and ferment at 65°F with WY3068 has yielded great, classic, hefeweizen flavor.
Hefeweizen isn't popular at all in the U.S. You won't find anyone even posting threads about making it here (sarcasm intended, in case it isn't understood).

 

[Zepth]

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell#Primary_fermentation

Attaching a blow-off tube is advisable and necessary to remove the brown Kraeusen. The latter gives the beer a harsh taste if it is allowed to fall back into the beer.

I thought the idea that krausen falling back into beer being bad for it was debunked a while ago? Or does it depend on what you're fermenting? I've been happy with my hefe attempts in the future without skimming, but I'd rather be thrilled.

 

[orangehero]

http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2010/02/14/should-the-kraeusen-fall-back-into-the-beer/

It seems you have the variables. Play with them until you get what you want.

Underpitching increases esters.
Undereration increases esters.
Higher temperature increases esters.

Generally with higher temperature yeast produce more of all flavor compounds including 4VG (clove) and isoamyl acetate (banana), but the esters will be much stronger. A lower temperature will produce less absolute amounts of the flavor compounds but the balance will be shifted to the spicy side.

 

[rhys333]

I find it produces a noticeable clove aroma at lower temps; also higher pitching rates. My preference is towards the warmer end, slight banana similar to Edelweiss