Maris Otter Haze

[motobrewer]

I can't seem to shake it. I'm using Warminster Floor-Malted Maris Otter. I love the stuff but can't get clear beer with it.

I've tried 25min protein rests in the 127F range. I use kettle finings but no post-fermentation finings. I'd like to try to get some clear beer without it.

View attachment Analysis M Otter.pdf

 

[motobrewer]

nobody, eh?

 

[LLBeanJ]

Yeast and break material will clear with time in the fridge. Suspended starches will not. Do you check for starch conversion during the mash?

It's been a while since I last used MO, but I don't recall having any clarity issues.

 

[motobrewer]

yes i checked for starch conversion and was thoroughly converted.

 

[misterkidd]

Hi motobrewer. I use warminster MO almost excusively (i live quite close to there, so its abundant. I don't have any clarity issues, so i'm quite sceptical of the notion of "maris otter haze". Are you sure its an issue with the maris otter?

 

[motobrewer]

Hi motobrewer. I use warminster MO almost excusively (i live quite close to there, so its abundant. I don't have any clarity issues, so i'm quite sceptical of the notion of "maris otter haze". Are you sure its an issue with the maris otter?

what's your mash procedure?

I stock MO, Pils, and american 2-row at home. I only seem to have clarity issues with MO.

 

[Oginme]

I've never had clarity issues with MO, though I have used mostly Crisp's offerings. With the very well modified malts they are producing today, you probably do not need a protein rest, and that may in fact be hurting you by breaking down the proteins to much smaller molecules that they will not flocculate and settle out.

Did you add anything to assist in clarification? My routine is to add Irish Moss at 15 minutes left in the boil. Then I chill it quickly after the boil to cold crash the proteins out of solution. This produces gobs of thick proteins on the bottom of the kettle which I can decant the fairly clear wort off of.

I ferment my ales for 13 days in primary and then, if not doing any late fermentation additions, cold crash the finished beer for 5 to 6 days at around 40 F to 50 F. This produces a nice clear finished beer which carbonates up nicely with just a very thin film of yeast on the bottom of the bottles after one week at room temperature and two weeks at cellar temperatures.

 

[motobrewer]

I add kettle finings (irish moss). I use a plate filter for chilling which does a quick job. I also crash cool at 30F after 12-14 day primary.

 

[LLBeanJ]

If you do a web search for "clarity problems with marris otter" you'll get quite a few hits, so it's not all that uncommon. I wouldn't say it's the norm, however, as plenty of brewers are able to get clear beer with MO. At any rate, I would try fining with gelatin. I tried it for the first time not long ago with a Vienna lager and was surprised at how crystal clear it was after just two weeks of lagering in the keg.

 

[motobrewer]

i certainly could use gelatin but I'm trying to avoid it - I'd like to figure out what's causing it.

maybe I am shooting myself in the foot by doing a protein rest. I'll try an ESB soon with a single infusion.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I've used a variety of Maris Otter over the years and I've never seen any haze problems with any of them...

MC

 

[misterkidd]

I do a biab mash with a standard sachh rest and sometimes a mash out. No protein rest. I use a small amount of irish moss at the end of the boil, and cool with an immersion chiller. I don't filter and i don't use gelatin. I sometimes cold crash but more often not.

 

[blizz81]

Personal anecdote time: I've brewed the same ESB twice with MO and 1968 (highly flocculant), and had it turn up very cloudy both times. First time was so long ago and early enough in our brewing days that I'm not sure what we were doing. Recently rebrewed with our RIMS where we get very clear wort, we also have pretty rapid boil & chilling. Beer was super-clear going into bottles, but had issues with 1968 presumably finishing & floccing out too soon to where it could have eaten a couple more points on its own, as it universally overcarbed in the bottle (confident in our process, over 30 batches bottled, etc). Was very cloudy in bottles at room temp, today remains very cloudy after chilling in the fridge for over 6 weeks. I can somewhat understand the overcarb, but still don't really get why a high-floc yeast wouldn't still end up clear in the bottles.


I don't blame MO for either, just another anecdote to take into account if you try single-infusion and it still ends up cloudy.

 

[misterkidd]

Motobrewer, you probably found this already, but:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5175.0

The OP in this thread describes a haze issue with a particular sack of Maris Otter. Is all your MO from the same source, or different ones?

 

[motobrewer]

I have seen that thread. All MO I use currently is warminster.

 

[ricshayne]

cold crash it for 3-4 days as close to freezing as possible.

is there a reason you are trying to stay away from gelatin? I use it in MO beers and they have commercial clarity

 

[motobrewer]

cold crash it for 3-4 days as close to freezing as possible.

is there a reason you are trying to stay away from gelatin? I use it in MO beers and they have commercial clarity

yeah, I do, closer to 28F for 2 days.

no real reason, except for I feel I should be able to make clear beer without it. My real goal is understanding what's causing the haze.

 

[Beersnob16]

Here is a pic of my Maris Otter cascade SMaSH. I used whirfloc and cold crashed for 3 days.

View attachment 1429121442514.jpg

 

[motobrewer]

Here is a pic of my Maris Otter cascade SMaSH. I used whirfloc and cold crashed for 3 days.

what's your mash schedule?

 

[Beersnob16]

Here is the recipe I used

View attachment 1429123002932.jpg

View attachment 1429123024975.jpg

 

[motobrewer]

single infusion at 151?

 

[Beersnob16]

single infusion batch sparge to reach preboil volume