Margarita Gose

[bigdawg86]

I hit pH of 3.4 (wife likes tart but not super sour) and pre-boil gravity is 1.042... time to fire up the kettle!

 

[isomerization]

Round 2 is fermenting, pre-boil pH was at 3.13 . Has anyone dry hopped this? I was thinking of using Ekuanot as I get a distinct lemon/like citrus profile from this hop.

 

[TravelingLight]

Round 2 is fermenting, pre-boil pH was at 3.13 . Has anyone dry hopped this? I was thinking of using Ekuanot as I get a distinct lemon/like citrus profile from this hop.

Hooboy! That's gonna have a nice pucker on it. I have not dry hopped it, but ekuanot could be nice. Are you doing the regular margarita gose on this one?

 

[Sillybilly]

Round 2 is fermenting, pre-boil pH was at 3.13 . Has anyone dry hopped this? I was thinking of using Ekuanot as I get a distinct lemon/like citrus profile from this hop.

I didn't dry hop the margarita gose but I did on a kettle sour with 50/50 pils/wheat. I believe it was 2oz of Motueka for 3 gals. It was pretty good, but next time I would probably use another 2oz of something else or maybe a flameout addition as well.

Never used Ekuanot but could be a nice compliment to this recipe based on your desciprtion.

This reminds me that it is about time to brew this up again, I know last time I did it too early and didn't have any left for the summer, so Ill hold off just a little bit longer.

 

[TravelingLight]

Round 2 is fermenting, pre-boil pH was at 3.13 . Has anyone dry hopped this? I was thinking of using Ekuanot as I get a distinct lemon/like citrus profile from this hop.

BTW...nice shoutout on Tonsmiere's blog today! https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2018/01/american-oat-ale-brew-day-dry-hop.html

 

[isomerization]

Hooboy! That's gonna have a nice pucker on it. I have not dry hopped it, but ekuanot could be nice. Are you doing the regular margarita gose on this one?

Sorry, didn't specifics! It is the margarita gose. Going with 5 large limes seated into 12oz of Silver tequila aged (~3 months) with 2 oz of medium toast American oak cubes.

I didn't dry hop the margarita gose but I did on a kettle sour with 50/50 pils/wheat. I believe it was 2oz of Motueka for 3 gals. It was pretty good, but next time I would probably use another 2oz of something else or maybe a flameout addition as well.

Never used Ekuanot but could be a nice compliment to this recipe based on your desciprtion.

This reminds me that it is about time to brew this up again, I know last time I did it too early and didn't have any left for the summer, so Ill hold off just a little bit longer.

I have about 6 gallons of beer to package, was going to bottle off 1 gallon of base beer and then rack the other 5 into a keg with the tincture inside. I'm leaning towards dry hopping the whole batch with 4 oz Ekuanot beforehand, should allow a proper side-by-side comparison

BTW...nice shoutout on Tonsmiere's blog today! https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2018/01/american-oat-ale-brew-day-dry-hop.html

Wow, pretty cool! And he didn't hate it lol. I do want to point out that the real leg work (testing different ratios) was performed by several different members in that thread. Great community effort!

 

[Sillybilly]

I have about 6 gallons of beer to package, was going to bottle off 1 gallon of base beer and then rack the other 5 into a keg with the tincture inside. I'm leaning towards dry hopping the whole batch with 4 oz Ekuanot beforehand, should allow a proper side-by-side comparison

I say go for it, I know the idea of dry hopping was been tossed around for this but not sure anyone has done it! Curious about your results if you do

 

[Amadeo38]

Just wanted to say that I somewhat replicated this recipe and it’s amazing.

The things I did differently were:
(1) zested one lime at flameout then added the lime peel and oak chips in the tequila all at once, dosing that entire tincture at kegging rather than in two steps, (2) no coriander, and (3) 0.60oz pink Himalayan salt rather than 1oz

 

[isomerization]

Update on my Ekuanot dry hopped Margarita Gose:

So I ended up using 4 oz in the whole batch (2 days) and then kegging the 5 gallons and bottling the rest (7 bottles, which I naturally carbed).

So, the kegged batch (with lime, oak and tequila) was almost unchanged from the last batch (going off memory). I did use the zest of 5 limes, which I think I’d back off to 3 next time, so maybe that overwhelmed the hops.

The base beer though was excellent with the dry hop! I really liked how the salt/coriander/tartness played with the Ekuanot. Nicely balanced, mostly lemon/lime hop aroma with subtle flavor contribution.

The beer recently scored a 38 at a competition (almost 2 months from brew day), but no medal (entered as a Gose). Overall I’d recommend it!

 

[TravelingLight]

Update on my Ekuanot dry hopped Margarita Gose:

So I ended up using 4 oz in the whole batch (2 days) and then kegging the 5 gallons and bottling the rest (7 bottles, which I naturally carbed).

So, the kegged batch (with lime, oak and tequila) was almost unchanged from the last batch (going off memory). I did use the zest of 5 limes, which I think I’d back off to 3 next time, so maybe that overwhelmed the hops.

The base beer though was excellent with the dry hop! I really liked how the salt/coriander/tartness played with the Ekuanot. Nicely balanced, mostly lemon/lime hop aroma with subtle flavor contribution.

The beer recently scored a 38 at a competition (almost 2 months from brew day), but no medal (entered as a Gose). Overall I’d recommend it!

Damn right dude, a 38 is a fantastic score. Glad you dropped in the bit about cutting 5 limes back to 3. I'd considered using more, nice to know where the threshold is.

 

[isomerization]

Damn right dude, a 38 is a fantastic score. Glad you dropped in the bit about cutting 5 limes back to 3. I'd considered using more, nice to know where the threshold is.

Thanks! Haven’t gotten the score sheet back yet, but will update if anything informative is in there.

The Margarita Gose version scored a 35 at a comp last month (no medal, entered as fruit beer). Both judges said that despite tasting everything else in there (salt, wheat, tequila, oak, etc) the lime knocked the beer out of balance (I agree).

All that said, the base beer in this thread is amazing and I’m so glad I found it and have made it 3 times in the last year. It really shines on its own or fruited (or hopped too)!

 

[isomerization]

Watermelon Gose competition update.

Entered twice, beer made in July 2018, same as described earlier in the thread (used 2 watermelons, 1 oz each cracked coriander and sea salt).

First comp (Sower’s Cup in Oct 18) scored a 35, no medal out of 19 fruit beers. Judges notes said too much salt.

Second comp (FOAM Cup in Nov 18) scored a 44.5, silver medal out of 19 fruit beers. Don’t have notes back yet.

Just wanted to further underscore how awesome these beers are

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I have to make this recipe. This will by my next beer and likely the first beer of 2019 for me. I don't know why having a beer like this that reminds me of summer in winter appeals to me but it does.

I tasted a commercial beer that was in this vein but Imperial strength https://untappd.com/b/newburgh-brewing-co-margaritaburgh/2566204.

Ever since I have been looking at doing something like this and this recipe and the results have me drooling.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I know this is a noob question but is the wheat everyone is using for this unmalted wheat?

 

[isomerization]

I know this is a noob question but is the wheat everyone is using for this unmalted wheat?

I use white wheat malt personally.

 

[TravelingLight]

I know this is a noob question but is the wheat everyone is using for this unmalted wheat?

Negative. Unmalted requires a cereal mash, right?

I use white wheat malt personally.

Same.

(Also, just realized who you are. GREAT work in the Treehouse yeast thread. I haven't been active but have followed it closely as I brew a crap ton of hazy bois.)

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Yeah I figured it was the malted wheat I have never used it before and didn't want something dumb like picking the wrong type of wheat to screw the pooch on what looks like a tasty beer.

 

[isomerization]

Yeah I figured it was the malted wheat I have never used it before and didn't want something dumb like picking the wrong type of wheat to screw the pooch on what looks like a tasty beer.

Maybe you were thinking of flaked wheat? Either way, I’ve enjoyed white wheat malt, so I’d recommend that!

(Also, just realized who you are. GREAT work in the Treehouse yeast thread. I haven't been active but have followed it closely as I brew a crap ton of hazy bois.)

Juice wolfs unite lol!

I will take credit for getting the ball rolling in that thread, but it really has become a collective effort by multiple posters. So much knowledge in there!

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

All hail the Juice Wolf.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Finally got about gathering up my ingredients for this recipe, it is a bit different in I am going to use the reverse kettle sour method from MTF:

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources#MTF_.22Reverse_Kettle_Sour.22

And with a bit of process input from RPh Guy.

I am going to be aggressive and use a full ounce of Pink Sea Salt in the boil and create my tequila tincture with 2oz lime peel and 1oz tangerine peel. I will use a full oz of coriander in the boil (lightly cracked/lightly toasted) as well. Also for simplicity sake I am going to make 1 batch of 1 cup anejo tequila tincture to add, and toss the peel and oak cubes in the same tequila. I am not planning on hopping this really but if at the end I want to get crazy I'll dry hop it a few days before bottling.

But the premise is the same 50/50 2-row and white wheat, Sach Trois yeast then 2-3 days later I will pitch a pouch of Omega Lacto blend. Aiming it for a comp if it comes out tasty. Will report back, brewing it up on Sunday.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I am going to use the reverse kettle sour method

Interesting take. Are you doing this specifically to bring out more sacc trois character? If not, why? Are you planning on co-pitching brett (as in the link)?

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Interesting take. Are you doing this specifically to bring out more sacc trois character? If not, why? Are you planning on co-pitching brett (as in the link)?

I am using this different methodology mostly for experimentation sake but also because I prefer a more nuanced sour than a standard kettle sour so my hope is that yes there will be more yeast character from the sach trois and more depth from the lacto as it will be pitched after high krausen, and not killed off unless I decide to dry hop before packaging.

No Brett in my pitch I know most of the references in the link refer to brett being used but I want to get a handle on a souring process that doesn't kill off the lacto but doesn't take 6 months to gain depth like brett/pedio. I want to get a few good results with Sach/lacto pitches under my belt before I start wading into the depths of true 3-6 month mixed fermentations. Also I am interested to see if using this method the lacto will drop the Ph to the level of sourness I like, which is passed most peoples' enjoyment in my experience.

We will see basically this brew is a proof of concept for this type of "reverse kettle" souring process for me.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I am using this different methodology mostly for experimentation sake but also because I prefer a more nuanced sour than a standard kettle sour so my hope is that yes there will be more yeast character from the sach trois and more depth from the lacto as it will be pitched after high krausen, and not killed off unless I decide to dry hop before packaging.

Cool. My first reaction is that everything else going on in your recipe (tequila, lime/tangerine, salt) might convolute the nuanced difference. However, i do like the concept for a more standard Berliner and may follow your lead on my next one. If for nothing else but to evaluate the difference the souring timing yields.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Cool. My first reaction is that everything else going on in your recipe (tequila, lime/tangerine, salt) might convolute the nuanced difference. However, i do like the concept for a more standard Berliner and may follow your lead on my next one. If for nothing else but to evaluate the difference the souring timing yields.

I completely agree, really this recipe and this method should not be combined on the first attempt for me to get a good feel for either. But I haven't brewed in over a month, and haven't brewed a sour since my first one this summer so I'm going to go big on this one and roll the dice. Might bite me in the a$$, might turn out solid, but you are right it could go over the edge into overly complicated (muddled) which is why I am leaning toward no hops at all, my feeling is another flavor component will just add to the likelihood of a hot mess of a beer.

 

[isomerization]

Make sure you have 5 ibu or less in the beer and you can always sample before dry hopping.

In the link you posted, they said bottles reached peak at 24 weeks, just FYI if you’re shooting for a comp in the near future.

Would be really cool to pull off a couple of bottles before adding Lacto, might give you a baseline to compare too with minimal loss to total volume.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Make sure you have 5 ibu or less in the beer and you can always sample before dry hopping.

In the link you posted, they said bottles reached peak at 24 weeks, just FYI if you’re shooting for a comp in the near future.

Would be really cool to pull off a couple of bottles before adding Lacto, might give you a baseline to compare too with minimal loss to total volume.

That is a really good idea. Maybe I will adjust my recipe to try and get a good 6-6.5 gallons in the can and then before I lacto the batch rack 1 gal or so of the clean beer into a 1 gallon FV to finish/taste/experiment with.

 

[toddo97]

That is a really good idea. Maybe I will adjust my recipe to try and get a good 6-6.5 gallons in the can and then before I lacto the batch rack 1 gal or so of the clean beer into a 1 gallon FV to finish/taste/experiment with.

You could also pour off another gallon and add brett to see what 6 months does to it

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Got this brewed up on Sunday, really had an issue with the pitch because I was not being precise (temperature) but the WLP644 has been going now since Monday night. I have been keeping the temperature up with a seedling heat mat and the smell is definitely somewhere between mango/pineapple which I think will be nice for this recipe. After work if the sach has slowed down I will warm it up a bit and pitch Lacto. If not then I will definitely pitch the lacto blend tomorrow. I expect to let the lacto go about for about 2-3 weeks before packaging so next weekend I will make the tequila tincture with the oak and lime/tangerine peels and we will be on the way to see how she comes out.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

The smell of the tequila tincture smells exactly like a margarita (without stupid sour mix and all that nonsense). Wort has the fruitiness of the WLP644 with a sour tinge from the lacto, haven't pulled a hydro sample yet but it seems to be spot on to what I intended thusfar.

Tincture:
2 cups anejo tequila
2oz lime peel
1oz tangerine peel
13 small hunagrian oak cubes
stir occasionally

Planning on packaging this Sunday. The plan is to add the priming solution and tincture (cheesecloth to separate solids out) to the bucket then rack on top of it. Will bottle condition as normal and will likely try the first one on Super Bowl Sunday, 2/3. Pretty excited for my first mixed ferm of 2019.

 

[cactusgarrett]

My version of a Margarita Gose is probably my most widely, well-received beer I've ever made. You're going to be jazzed about this, for sure.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

My version of a Margarita Gose is probably my most widely, well-received beer I've ever made. You're going to be jazzed about this, for sure.

Already thinking about upping the ante on the next go. My best margarita recipe involves infusing the simple syrup with jalapeno and using pineapple juice with the lime juice, if this goes well that variant may be up next.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Bottled the Margarita Gose on Friday. Tincture was smelling exactly like a very strong margarita and the base beer was right in the tart range I like. Interestingly the salt was not really detectable even though I used 1oz but maybe once it is conditioned carbed and chilled it will be more forward.

 

[isomerization]

How was the base beer? Did you take a pH reading? Interested to see how the reverse approach worked!

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

How was the base beer? Did you take a pH reading? Interested to see how the reverse approach worked!

It was tasty but unfortunately my meter won't be here until tomorrow so I do not know the pH. Subjectively this got to a tartness that I like but most folks who don't enjoy a good pucker may not enjoy. Also I imagine the lack of carbonation skews any attempt to "taste" the sour level. I will take a pH reading on the packaged product to report back at least with some type of empirical data.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

So I chilled and sampled one of the Gose's last night. The next one a try I will take a pH reading, I will start playing with my pH60 this weekend so I'll give it a go then.

It is slightly effervescent, still needs some carbing. I will probably let this sit the full two weeks in 70F before cellaring it for a week closer to 55-60F and considering it pretty much mature at that point. For right now:

1) The fruitiness of the WLP644 fermentation at around 70-74F is really melding nice with the lime/tangerine zest I used in the tincture.

2) The base beer is not what I would call special on it's own but I really think I nailed a base sour gose to use as a backdrop for all kinds of variants.

3) I used 2 cups of anejo tequila for the tincture and while per above I think the zests are detectable in the fruity notes of the beer, the oka/tequila thusfar seems lost. One thing I will say is this is my first time using WLP644 and I love it but holy christ it make a hazy beer (which I knew going in). That being said I am curious if as the beer conditions and then is properly chilled from the 55-60F cellar to the fridge if the yeast will drop out enough to allow the oak/tequila expression to come forward more. If it never gets to that point I'm fine and maybe this beer will just require more patience on my end. Or there could always be the inevitable fact that the peels/yeast character will overpower the tequila and oak in this beer it's entire life.

That being said this is definitely tasty and only going to get better and I am looking forward to seeing how the nuances come out as it ages. Will update this weekend with a final pH for those curious.

 

[isomerization]

I haven’t ever used WLP644, but don’t forget that this is a wheat beer and you probably still have chill haze. Of course you could also have yeast in suspension too, but when bottle conditioning, all yeasts I have used drop out after carbonating, which you said is still in progress, so that’s another factor.

Re the oak/tequila, I too feel that it gets overpowered, but I also don’t want those notes from and center, so caveat emptor...

 

[RPh_Guy]

Glad it worked, Andrew!

FWIW, when I delay pitching L plantarum until a few days after yeast, the pH still hits 3.3 after another few days at ~70-75°F (normal for my Lacto culture).

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Re the oak/tequila, I too feel that it gets overpowered, but I also don’t want those notes from and center, so caveat emptor...

Maybe it will meld a bit more and end up being the balance I want. For me I like a pretty strong margarita with hints of lime flavor etc. Finding the balance in a beer may be more challenging to match this but I already have a couple ideas. I could up the ABV a bit to try and get the lower end of an "alcohol bite" similar to a margarita. I could also mess with the peel/tequila ratio (the best commericla version of this I have had clocked in around 9% and was still pretty damn smooth). It could be as simple as one more cup of tequila for the tincture. Also after tasting it I am definitely thinking that adding jalapeno to the tincture or priming sugar would be worth a try.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Glad it worked, Andrew!

FWIW, when I delay pitching L plantarum until a few days after yeast, the pH still hits 3.3 after another few days at ~70-75°F (normal for my Lacto culture).

You have gotten me hooked on playing with WLP644 that's for sure, already have a IIPA almost ready to go using the yeast to help the fruit flavors of the hops really pop.

 

[RPh_Guy]

one more cup of tequila

I know Morrey's recipe here calls for tequila, but you could think about using agave nectar. Tequila is distilled agave wine.

There are also pretty simple ways to get more oak flavor quickly -- oak chips, or making a hot tea with the cubes.
I really have no idea how the quality compares, so you may or may not find those methods acceptable.
I've tasted the water from boiling cubes and it's definitely oaky, and not at all unpleasant to my taste, but I haven't added that to a beer.

You have gotten me hooked on playing with WLP644 that's for sure,

Nice, I definitely like the flavor. The temp range also makes fermentation easy.