Malt extract vs. full grain - which do you choose and why?

[Sematary]

I'm certain this particular topic has showed up in these forums before but I'm curious as to what people think about the options and why. In every hobby there are "purists" but the definition isn't always set in stone as to what that means. I figured this would be a fun topic for discussion.
Currently, I'm leaning towards full grain as the way I want to go. I just feel like I'm missing out on part of the enjoyment of the process if I use an extract.

 

[bucketnative]

More flexibility with all-grain. But, that flexibility comes at the expense of more equipment, more cleaning, more stuff to dispose of, and more storage space. It's really what fits your budget, space requirements, and desires for the hobby.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Both make perfectly fine beers. It's really not a "purist" thing. All grain simply gives you the ability to control the entire recipe and process, in full detail, and in many cases is a lower cost. It's like grandma making a cake from scratch or buying a box of premix, or buying a frozen lasagna or laying out every strip of pasta and making the sauce from scratch.

 

[MaxStout]

You can make excellent beer using extract, many people do. Some win awards. Plenty of brewers have stayed with extract brewing for many years and have no desire to change.

That said, there are some advantages to going all grain. More choices when designing a recipe, and more control over the process. You can use mash temps and different types of mash processes (single-infusion, decoction, step mashes, etc.) to achieve a particular flavor profile, body, mouthfeel, etc. The cons are that your brew day is lengthened somewhat, and it requires more equipment. You have to pay closer attention to a few things, like temps, water additions, and so forth.

However, you don't need much more equipment. You can try brew in a bag (BIAB). All you need to add is a fine-mesh bag and a kettle large enough to hold your strike water and grains if your existing kettle doesn't already. And a good thermometer for accurately measuring mash temps (that cheap dial thermometer that comes with the brew kits won't cut it).

 

[ESBrewer]

I started out brewing with all grain because I like to control all the factors and ingredients that affect the outcome. Even if it is more messy and takes more time than extract brewing. Didn't even think about extract brewing, although I knew it can be a nice way to start when you want to keep the process simple.

 

[mongoose33]

What do I think? I think new brewers should start w/ extract, so as to learn the process from the boil forward. Then after a few of these, look to all-grain as an option.

I believe I have much greater control over what I produce than I would with extract. I also find the process more...authentic? Not sure that's the right word, but I feel more "at one with the beer" than I did using extract.

This is hard to explain, but there's a bit of a spiritual element to brewing for me. Lots to do, but occasional downtime while I wait for something to complete. It's almost a sort of Zen-type experience for me.

Magic is happening in the mash. I don't get that with extract.

 

[Sematary]

What do I think? I think new brewers should start w/ extract, so as to learn the process from the boil forward. Then after a few of these, look to all-grain as an option.

I believe I have much greater control over what I produce than I would with extract. I also find the process more...authentic? Not sure that's the right word, but I feel more "at one with the beer" than I did using extract.

This is hard to explain, but there's a bit of a spiritual element to brewing for me. Lots to do, but occasional downtime while I wait for something to complete. It's almost a sort of Zen-type experience for me.

Magic is happening in the mash. I don't get that with extract.

I think that is more how I feel. The "kits" seem to make some wonderful beers and brewing with extracts also makes some wonderful beers but it seems like it would be harder to make your own recipe using extracts and it really isn't "yours", if you know what I mean. Grain seems to be the way I want to go. I enjoyed doing my first all grain batch this past weekend and would like to do more but I only have a 5 gallon brewer so, um, ya. lol Time to upgrade.

 

[CWood]

I don't see all grain as purism, just allows for many more recipe combinations to "make it your own". When I started brewing in the mid 90s extracts were pretty terrible. Now you have many more options and higher quality. I just received a few extract kits from nb as a present and am tempted to make one. Then again, I'm interested in adding the extract to an all grain recipe to gain an easy high grav beer. I love brewing all grain and have even moved to using mainly locally sourced grain. Just fun to me, but space, equipment, and time will dictate what works best for you.

 

[dstockwell]

It also depends on your current situation. I started with all grain BIAB based on items I already had on hand. 30QT turkey fryer and burner, small dorm mini fridge that could only hold a 4G bucket, so kits were out.

 

[Gameface]

This may not still be true, but all-grain allows you to make lighter-colored beers in my experience. That's probably not all too important to most brewers, but that is one advantage is see that all-grain clearly has over extract.

I do a lot of cooking. I tend to cook from scratch and make my own recipes. For me it was just natural that I do the same with brewing. I enjoy the entirety of the process.

Where many people are talking about control, it's important to keep in mind that control is a double edged sword. While you may be able to tweak things to perfectly fit what you want, you might also make mistakes that never would have been made with extract. More room for error, while at the same time having very marginal possibility for improvement.

 

[brewgar]

Some start out as all grain brewers. Many of us started with kits, then moved on to all grain brewing, once comfortable with basic processes. Both methods can be used to make good beer. Starting with kits would make a lot of sense if you do not have access to a brew club, or to experienced brew buddies.

 

[Calder]

I partial mash. 8 lbs of grain, and 4 gallons on the stove. The boil is what limits me, and I have no intention to go outside to a bigger boil.

8 lbs of grain and ~85% efficiency means I need very little extract to make a brew.

Yes, you have more variety with all-grain, but you can have more problems too. Today I did an oatmeal stout (Shakespeare Stout clone) and got my mash temp too low. Found out my strike water thermometer was reading 4 degrees high. Guess it is going to end up a little drier than planned. Maybe I'l call it 'Foreign Extra Oatmeal Stout'.

 

[MaxStout]

Today I did an oatmeal stout (Shakespeare Stout clone) and got my mash temp too low. Found out my strike water thermometer was reading 4 degrees high. Guess it is going to end up a little drier than planned. Maybe I'l call it 'Foreign Extra Oatmeal Stout'.

You could add maltodextrin to give it some body.

 

[Grod1]

i am a big fan of all grain supplemented with extract. i basically need it when i want beers over 10%
i dont think they should be VS. extract is just a tool in my grain arsenal.

 

[PADave]

Start with extract, learn the process, and go from there.

 

[applescrap]

I would seriously consider buying extract in bulk, but even then its too expensive. Extract is versatile and doesnt really need boiled. I am aware that many brewers are very successful with extract and what better way to keep a pipeline going. The only problem is its expensive. So much more that I have never used it.

 

[VTX1300]

As a fairly new Brewers (12 batches over 9 months) I started with all grain because I wanted to be able to control the entire process. And I enjoy doing the entire process. I had some of the equipment needed already so the start up cost was not that big of a deal for me. The route you decide to go depends on you space, equipment needed, your budget and how involved in the process you want to be starting out. No matter what you do, education is the key to making great beer. Enjoy!

 

[McKnuckle]

Beer brewing is a centuries old craft that requires the practicioner to mash malted barley. Pre-packaged malt extract is a modern invention that allows the brewer to skip the mashing stage, making the process easier and faster. Simple as that.

Think of it like making Italian food with jarred sauce. Will it taste good? Usually, sure. Is it as much of a craft? I don't think so.

 

[RM-MN]

My nearest "full featured" LHBS is 90 miles away and may not have all the grains in stock when I do get there so I want to pick up the raw material for several brews when I do get there. Sacks of grain are easier to handle than big jugs of LME and quite a bit cheaper than sacks of DME. If I spill grain in the back of my SUV I can vacuum it out. Try that with LME! Malted grains store really well and base malt that has been stored for 2 years makes as good of beer as fresh. Add to that the ability to change up a recipe with full control of the ingredients (provided I can get them) and the ease of BIAB and I'll be all grain for as long as I brew.

 

[Brownalemikie]

Me thinks each of us has our own reason for making our own beer. I started brewing when I moved from Minnesota to Florida, I could no longer drink my favorite craft brown ale from a local Minnesota craft brewery. If I hadn't moved to Florida, I'd never have started home brewing. Hence, it doesn't matter if I use extract or all grain. I simply love my extract brown ales, stouts and porters. For me, it doesn't matter how you get from point A to point B just so I get there. JMO

 

[ESBrewer]

I kinda like the idea of malting the barley and growing the hops as well. Maybe growing the barley.. That would be the ultimate journey from the field to the bottle, but at the moment I don't have the facilities, equipment, time or money for that so I need to go with just AG. And you have to start from somewhere. Maybe someday I'll do it all? But as you see, AG is a shortcut, too. Some people stick to extract brewing for the same reasons.

 

[myndflyte]

It all depends how I'm feeling. If I want to have a brew day where I'm outside for a few hours, I'll do all grain. If I just want something done quick, I'll use extract.

 

[cubalz]

I do all-grain for the increased control over my ingredients. That isn't to say that you cannot make a damn fine extract beer but the simple fact is that some beers cannot be made true to style with DME or LME. Color is always a big issue.

 

[Vandulus]

One reason I switched from extract to all grain was my color was always much darker than I expected, even with late additions of fresh DME. Part of my problem I now realize was the water pH was too high (whoops!), but it seems more difficult to hit the target SRM with malt extract. I also reduced my grain bill cost by half when buying base malts by the sack on sale.

 

[soccerdad]

I go both ways

With extract I rarely do a 60 minute boil, so I can make a good beer (really a very good beer) in less than an hour. These are generally "non descript" but true to style beers like Brown Ales, Blonde Ales, Pale Ales. These are brews that satisfy my "jones" for brewing, keep the pipeline full, and assure tasty brew on hand at all times. These can be done inexpensively (roughly $30/5G), and with 1 to 4 items to clean.

I do far more all grain (BIAB), which allows me to be more creative, invest more time in the hobby, make more complex beers, push the edges of style, and still not break the bank. Just as an example, a good IPA "kit" might cost $50, but an all grain approximation of that beer might cost $35,

Hmm .. I have 2 5G cronies open. Better brew.

 

[Merak5]

I started with extract, then partial mash, then all grain. As someone else said, there is a magic that occurs in the mash, I enjoy participating in the mystery/sacrament/alchemy of converting grain to wort. Its an old art that can be reclaimed from the materialistic culture we live in. And it tastes wonderful.

 

[jalc6927]

i am a big fan of all grain supplemented with extract. i basically need it when i want beers over 10%
i dont think they should be VS. extract is just a tool in my grain arsenal.

Perfectly said there is no AG vs Extract.

You can make great beer both ways. Extract is easier and requires less equipment and if done right makes awesome beer.

AG requires more equipment and more time. More can go wrong as well, but it’s an art and it’s fun

I started with steeping grains and adding extract now I do AG and not sure why. Just happened

I’ll be buying an automated brew boss in the next week or so to smooth out the process

It’s all personal preference and brewing is brewing which ever way one decides

 

[waldoar15]

I was never really all that happy with my extract brews. I think there was only one that I thought was really good. Switched to AG and never looked back.

 

[seatazzz]

I started with extract, moved to partial mash, and now do all grain exclusively. I do like the control over the recipe I get with all grain, but my biggest reason is (and I know this sounds silly) the fact that it makes me feel like I'm "really" brewing. I've made some great beers with extract and partial mash, but my all grain brews feel more like an accomplishment. I know when I start a brew day I'm in it for at least 6 hours, but those 6 hours are hard work, sweat, mess, and at the end I've got (hopefully) great beer. There's so much more to do when you brew all grain, it really makes my brain work and the physical work as well is good for me. I've toyed with the idea of doing a partial mash again, but (in my mind) there's no fun in it. Brew day for me is like Christmas when you're a kid; I wake up early, leap out of bed, and jump right in. The comparison between something made from scratch and just dumping a box of mix in a bowl is very apt. That's not to disparage those who brew only with extract; if I lived in an apartment, or couldn't find the time to do an all grain batch, it would be the way for me. I'm happy I've got the means (and the understanding spouse) to do what I do.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I set out to make a yummy Irish Red so I can stop paying $11/sixpack for Red Trolley (it's a great beer, just crazy expensive and sometimes hard to find). A little more of this grain, less of that grain, yada yada yada. All were tasty and my friends gulped them down faster than I could ferment another batch. By the 4th version I was very happy with it but noted "drop the mash temp another two degrees, it's a tiny bit sweet still".

Had I been doing extract, I would have had to say "it is what it is. Drink up". That's why I do all grain. If i'm going to put out the money, time and effort, I want to tweak recipes for my own tastes. Not just accept what I can get out of a can or bag of extract. Do they make cans of extract still or am I showing my age?

 

[biochemedic]

I think everyone has nailed it on the head with increased control over all grain vs simplicity (and speed) when using extract. All grain is cheaper (for the ingredients), but there's increased equipment overhead initially.

Like @soccerdad, the main thing with extract for me is that I absolutely love being able to whip out a quick pale ale in an hour or two, so I've come full circle after starting with extract plus specialty grains, then moving to all grain, and then back...for some of my brews...I still bust out the full mash tun and do all grain at times as well, for more complicated brews that I want more control over, or that can't really be replicated with extracts well.

 

[grampamark]

I did extract, then partial mash, for a couple of years. I never made a beer that was truly bad, but none of them were remarkable in any way, either. After awhile, I noticed that everything I brewed, regardless of the style, tasted like malt extract-slightly tangy, slightly metallic, and pretty much all the same.

I switched to AG four years ago and have been happy with my choice. I can take any recipe and tweak it to my taste. It's still a cream ale or an IPA or whatever, but it's mine. That flexibility is, for me, the big advantage of AG. It's possible to freelance, a bit, with extracts, but the infinite range of possibilities with AG brewing makes it my preferred method.

Mark

 

[Calder]

Why do I mash? I partial mash, but it is 8+ lbs per batch. so with the exception of high abv beers, I add very little extract or other sugars.

Why do I mash? I think there are three reasons:

1) It save money. It is far cheaper to mash than to use extract. But it does take extra time, so that then becomes an individual choice.

2) When you steep grains, you leave a lot of the sugars behind. Mashing will increase the yield of sugars from steeped grains by ~ 50%. Maybe only 35% for dark crystals, but for other grains it can be very much more. ...... I guess I'm being a cheapskate again!

3) More variety. you can't steep many grains, such as Munich, Vienna, Biscuit, Victory, Smoked Malts, etc, and many others. You may get some flavors from them, but for each lb of grain you steep, you are leaving behind the equivalent of 0.7 lbs of DME in potential sugars. You already paid for the grain, why not maximize the sugars from the grain. I also suspect that you get more depth from mashing than steeping; I think mashing 0.5 lbs of Biscuit gives more flavor complexity than steeping the same grain.

Summary: I want to maximize the benefit of the grains I use.

 

[cmac62]

My lhbs owner taught me to brew. He taught me all grain, I didn't know enough to think that was weird. So I started ag. I've since used some ME to boost the abv a few times. Even with a 10 g cooler Mt I have made some big ass beers. My EBW was 26 lbs of grain and the mash was really thick but turned out in the 12% area. I feel like a lot of the others about the process, it is somewhat zen for me. When I brew I plan my whole day. Of course I sometimes brew three in a day. Brewing is a great Hobbie, there is room for everyone. If you want to control everything (me, not so much) or turn out some tasty beers in a few hours a month, both are valid options. I say brew on!!

 

[Horseflesh]

My extract beers were mediocre despite paying attention to details like fermentation temperature. A coworker brought over some AG homebrew when I had a party and it was revelatory: I finally experienced truly good homebrew. I immediately went AG and never looked back. I started with Igloos as many do and later upgraded to a fancy E-BIAB rig.

I am sure you can make good extract brews but I am very happy brewing AG, and having available pretty much every ingredient a commercial brewer might use.

I really like cooking and brewing scratches the same itch.

 

[yourlastchance89]

The pros of extract are if you're starting out, there's less variables involved. This means more dedication to focusing on the fewer yet still very critical steps involved like sanitation, fermentation control, the boiling process, etc. Then there is less equipment, when I did extract I used a 10 gallon kettle inside on a stovetop(biab is only a burner and a mesh bag away which is what I do now). Finally with extract I made good and consistently good beers. With all-grain I've made really good beers(just got my first medal 3 months ago), and I've made meh beer that's definitely drinkable but it's nothing to brag about. Ton of other factors I try to account for now, water chemistry, pH, grain crush, my mashing strategy, etc. My most struggling beers have been the ones I tried converting from extract to all-grain

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I started brewing back in the early 90's because I liked craft/import beer and the options were limited and expensive. I started with extract kits, then moved to following existing recipes and adding steeping grains like crystal. Then I had kids and stopped brewing...for a long time.

I just got back into it last spring and I went straight to all grain. I used to think all grain was some super difficult process that required some sort of black magic to ensure the correct mash temp and the whole fly sparge etc. Then I started reading here and learned about tools that help calculate all the things you really needed, most importantly the strike to mash temp relationship. Throw in the simplicity of batch sparging and all grain really isn't hard at all. I'm amazed that I ever saw it as a daunting process.

I spent months reading, asking questions and building up my equipment. I wanted to make sure I addressed the heavy hitters with respect to what really affects the quality of a home brew. To that end, I started off managing my water and pH, using a yeast starter and coming up with a plan to have accurate fermentation temp control.

My first all grain batch was excellent (better than most craft beers I can buy from the massive selection at the store) and they've gotten even better. What keeps me going is that beers as tasty as what I'm brewing are either unavailable or really expensive. Toppling Goliath makes some tasty NEIPAs and stouts, but the NEIPAs are $5 a glass and the stouts are major unobtainium. I can brew a NEIPA for about less than $1 a glass and I love it. I can brew a (pseudo) barrel aged RIS for not much more.

My advice to anyone is to start with extract, but buy a kettle big enough for full boils. Move on to all grain if you want. Use that time to learn about sanitation, yeast starters and management, and fermentation. Once you have those mastered, you can either go to BIAB or any other all grain process that strikes your fancy.

 

[STMF]

I have gone back to Extract-with-steeping-grains (full boil) from All-Grain. The main reasons is the time spent + I dont have to mess with the grains before or after the mash. I don't feel my beer is any worse than when I did All-Grain.

I find it strange that with all the steps (probably over 20) that is involved in making beer, some people seem to think that if you don't put grains in water for an hour, you somehow "cheat". Some compare it to heating a canned soup or similar wich I find ridiculess.

There are people that cheat in one or a few of the following steps for example;

They buy factory malted barley instead of malting themselfs
They buy factory crystal and roasted malt instead of roasting themselfs
They buy factory dried (and sometimes ground up pressed) hops instead of fresh
They buy factory grown up yeast (or even dried) instead of growing up themselfs
They use tap water instead of building up destilled water from scratch
etc...

None of the above is claimed to be a "Must do to claim to brew beer" but somehow the mash step is required.

Today there is a lot of variety in malt extract and most of them are very high in quality.

Make beer in whatever way you chose and that suits you!

 

[Kent88]

I started off as an extract brewer, then started using kits with steeping grains. Now I call myself a partial-extract brewer. I always try to have my mash tun full (or close to it) and make up the difference with extract. I really like munich malt heavy beers and there isn't much available for munich DME (I do have some from morebeer I am going to try in an upcoming batch).

 

[yourlastchance89]

I have gone back to Extract-with-steeping-grains (full boil) from All-Grain. The main reasons is the time spent + I dont have to mess with the grains before or after the mash. I don't feel my beer is any worse than when I did All-Grain.

I find it strange that with all the steps (probably over 20) that is involved in making beer, some people seem to think that if you don't put grains in water for an hour, you somehow "cheat". Some compare it to heating a canned soup or similar wich I find ridiculess.

There are people that cheat in one or a few of the following steps for example;

They buy factory malted barley instead of malting themselfs
They buy factory crystal and roasted malt instead of roasting themselfs
They buy factory dried (and sometimes ground up pressed) hops instead of fresh
They buy factory grown up yeast (or even dried) instead of growing up themselfs
They use tap water instead of building up destilled water from scratch
etc...

None of the above is claimed to be a "Must do to claim to brew beer" but somehow the mash step is required.

Today there is a lot of variety in malt extract and most of them are very high in quality.

Make beer in whatever way you chose and that suits you!

There was a rather popular thread on here regarding this some time back. Something to the tune of extract brewing is "fake" brewing which is total nonsense. Someone made a good point on the thread that the "fake" brewing argument was a totally arbitrary line. Who says using grain is even more "real"? Did you grow and malt your own grains? What about your hops? Did you catch and populate your yeast off a wild strain? How about your kettle? Did you mine and smelt your own metal and forge it yourself utilizing Biblical era tools? The boundary for brewing is what you make it. Just do you and be happy with it. People have reasons for extract, people have reasons for all-grain, in the end it's still homebrew.