Make your own NEIPA brewing salts?

[slayer021175666]

So, I have this pack of brewing salts here for a hazy ipa. It says to add it to 8 gallons of distilled or RO water. My problem is that it is now up to $5 and it's only good for a 5 gallon batch. What would I need to do in order to make my own? I see kits on the internet that have calcium magnesium sodium sulfate etc but, I don't know what to do with them if I did have them. I was hoping that someone here could look at the picture that I'm posting here and see the parts per million numbers on this and tell me what I would have to do in order to just make my own. I'm sure it would be way cheaper than $5 every 5 gallons of beer!

 

[AlexKay]

If you're starting from distilled or RO, this is pretty easy. You can use this calculator from Brewer's Friend, enter amounts of CaSO4, CaCl2 (hydrated), and NaCl, and see how close you can match your targets. It'll suggest adding MgSO4, baking soda, and CaCO3, to which my answers are unnecessary, rarely good, and always bad.

My suggestion after fiddling with these numbers would be 2 g CaSO4, 5 g CaCl2, and 1 g NaCl for 5 gallons, and skip the baking soda and the magnesium. That only gets you to 100 ppm Ca, but that really ought to be enough.

 

[slayer021175666]

Is there a way to make this exact mixture that is in this package? I used it once before and the beer was EXCELLENT!
I'd like to make it exactly the same, if possible.

 

[AlexKay]

Is there a way to make this exact mixture that is in this package? I used it once before and the beer was EXCELLENT!
I'd like to make it exactly the same, if possible.

2.5 g MgSO4, 6 g CaCl2 (x2H2O), and 2.0 g baking soda gets pretty close on Cl-, SO4-, Na+, and Mg2+. Undershoots the bicarb a bit, and the calcium too. Not quite sure how they get there with the standard ingredients; maybe someone else will take a stab at it...

 

[McMullan]

One of these was enough for me. Someone in NEIPA Land needs to get an idea about water treatment. Aftertaste here was extremely salty. Awful, frankly. Almost like someone had been a little bit confused about the concept brewing salts. And I always thought papaya tasted like weird artificial crap. This unfortunate beer confirms what I already knew.

 

[slayer021175666]

McMullan,
I (of course) love Slayer but, I'm brand new to water conditioning so I have no idea what you meant to convey posting this. Tell me like I'm a 4 year old, please.
F##CKIN' SLAYER!!!

 

[slayer021175666]

Alex, I can't get it to do anything. Did I do something wrong?I left source minerals blank because I'm using RO water. On Target minerals, I entered the numbers just like on the package I showed in the pic. When I hit "update" though, nothing happens.

 

[McMullan]

McMullan,
I (of course) love Slayer but, I'm brand new to water conditioning so I have no idea what you meant to convey posting this. Tell me like I'm a 4 year old, please.
F##CKIN' SLAYER!!!

The best band I've ever listened to live. Still got a number of hairs sticking up on the back of my neck from one of their gigs about 25 years ago in Pompey Guildhall.

 

[slayer021175666]

Alex, I think I might get it now. It looks like I have to enter amounts until all of the things are showing green numbers. I thought, it was just going to do that for me. Like I tell it what I've already got in the water and what my target is and it tells me the measurements and everything. That's not how it works though, huh?

 

[slayer021175666]

McMullan,
Slayer is so good together that on stage, they sound 95% pretty much of what they sound on their albums. Iron Maiden of course is another great band to listen to live.

 

[AlexKay]

Alex, I think I might get it now. It looks like I have to enter amounts until all of the things are showing green numbers. I thought, it was just going to do that for me. Like I tell it what I've already got in the water and what my target is and it tells me the measurements and everything. That's not how it works though, huh?

Nope, it's pretty hands-on. Beersmith will do it automatically.

 

[slayer021175666]

Alex,
It says, Add brewing salts as needed so the difference on line 8 reports all green values (within 20ppm).
Should I try to get them all at a flat zero, anyway? Even though it says, within 20ppm?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Alex,
It says, Add brewing salts as needed so the difference on line 8 reports all green values (within 20ppm).
Should I try to get them all at a flat zero, anyway? Even though it says, within 20ppm?

I'm never satisfied with just green, and always end up spending a lot more time making very little progress toward getting them all dead on. Guess that's what the green indicates, close enough that you probably couldn't tell the difference. YMMV, YOLO, RDWHAHB, etc.

 

[marc1]

Is there a way to make this exact mixture that is in this package? I used it once before and the beer was EXCELLENT!
I'd like to make it exactly the same, if possible.

I'd also recommend against adding bicarbonate to a pale beer, but the glory of homebrewing is doing what you want. And listening to Slayer when you brew.

 

[slayer021175666]

Well, at least now, I have a way to get close. I understand teaspoon measurements. HAHA! Thank you!
How do you guys buy your salts? Is salts proper nomenclature?
Anyway, I'd like to try to find the best value for buying them. I know that $5 added to the price of a 5 gallon batch is absolute robbery! Seems like a guy could get it down to pennies per batch but, I'm just imagining so. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but, I am actually almost angry with the 5 bucks price tag! I feel like they are cheating people!

 

[marc1]

Well, at least now, I have a way to get close. I understand teaspoon measurements. HAHA! Thank you!
How do you guys buy your salts? Is salts proper nomenclature?
Anyway, I'd like to try to find the best value for buying them. I know that $5 added to the price of a 5 gallon batch is absolute robbery! Seems like a guy could get it down to pennies per batch but, I'm just imagining so. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but, I am actually almost angry with the 5 bucks price tag! I feel like they are cheating people!

I've gotten them at the local(ish) home brew shop:
https://clevelandbrewshop.com/collections/adjuncts-additives
And from Morebeer:
https://www.morebeer.com/category/brewing-water-modifiers.html

 

[McMullan]

Don't buy from home brew shops. Buy by the kg for most salts. Yes, they're 'salts' generally. It's not a style I care much about, but I did brew a few and researched the water treatment. From memory there was some sound advice hidden away in BYO, under 'NEIPA' not water treatment.

 

[slayer021175666]

I'd also recommend against adding bicarbonate to a pale beer, but the glory of homebrewing is doing what you want. And listening to Slayer when you brew.

Yep! And, throwing in some Obituary, Carcass, Children of Bodom, Sanctuary and Nevermore is good too! Sounds like that, make your beer taste Figgin' Excellent!

 

[slayer021175666]

McMullan,
Where? Amazon? eBay?

 

[McMullan]

McMullan,
Where? Amazon? eBay?

Yes

 

[slayer021175666]

Is this a good way to get started or, still a rip off? Says 2 oz, of each. That would be 58 grams each, I think. Seams like I could get quite a few NEIPA brews out of the kit. I'll take your recommendation, though.
https://www.amazon.com/TAPCRAFT-Bre...I,B07KQPQ7CZ,B08MF7795Y,0062820184,B01N4WCWOK

 

[AlexKay]

Try Northern Brewer/MoreBeer/Atlantic Brew Supply/Adventures in Homebrewing/Great Fermentations.

 

[slayer021175666]

The Amazon one I showed is from Home Brew Stuff. I live in Nampa, ID and they are just over in Boise (Pronounce it, Boy-C. NOT, Boy-Z) about 15 miles from me. It;s a buck cheaper at the store instead of online, too.

 

[DonT]

Here's something else to read if you're interested....

 

[slayer021175666]

Here's something else to read if you're interested....

Thanks, man. I will.

 

[McMullan]

Know you don't have to understand the chemistry and theory of water treatment for brewing, just like you don't have to understand the physics and theory of putting a satellite in orbit to use its signal. As an end user all you need is the profile of the water you're using and a water treatment software package. Getting my tap water analysed professionally (by a chemist) was one of the best things I've done for my home brew.

 

[faithie999]

Is there a way to make this exact mixture that is in this package? I used it once before and the beer was EXCELLENT!
I'd like to make it exactly the same, if possible.

I have been using Beersmith for several years. yes, it's a paid program, but very easy to use to design/tweak recipes, and has all the tools you'll need, including a water profile tool.

using that tool, the additions to RO/distilled water are: NaCl 1.2 g, Epsom salts 2.5 g, calcium chloride 4.4 g, calcium carbonate 3.5 g. I use a 100 gram electronic scale to weigh the salts. the scale also is very handy for weighing hops additions. (search on amazon for 100 gram scale. costs less than $20.)

 

[balrog]

Are you actually starting with distilled or RO water?
If not, there are already some salts in just about any water.
You would likely get close enough if you got Ca, SO4 and CL close (within 10-20).

 

[AlexKay]

I have been using Beersmith for several years. yes, it's a paid program, but very easy to use to design/tweak recipes, and has all the tools you'll need, including a water profile tool.

using that tool, the additions to RO/distilled water are: NaCl 1.2 g, Epsom salts 2.5 g, calcium chloride 4.4 g, calcium carbonate 3.5 g. I use a 100 gram electronic scale to weigh the salts. the scale also is very handy for weighing hops additions. (search on amazon for 100 gram scale. costs less than $20.)

Calcium carbonate is bad. Bad, bad calcium carbonate. Never add it. Bad.

 

[McMullan]

Calcium carbonate is bad. Bad, bad calcium carbonate. Never add it. Bad.

I've been using calcium carbonate to treat my mash water for years. Why is it so bad?

 

[AlexKay]

I've been using calcium carbonate to treat my mash water for years. Why is it so bad?

Well, in general you want to be careful adding carbonates. It’s very easy to get your mash pH too high, which leads to decreased efficiency and increased tannin extraction. Sodium bicarbonate should be used sparingly, and ideally when you have past measurements to go by, or a calculator you really trust. Calcium carbonate is twice the carbonate, but even worse is sparingly soluble. So you don’t get a predictable pH in the mash, and to the extent it gets transferred with your wort, it continues to muck with your pH during fermentation.

At least this is my understanding. Someone else could weigh in.

I’ve damaged a batch or two with CaCO3 (and MgSO4, for that matter), and feel my brewing has only improved now that I’m not trying to match carbonates in water profiles at all.

 

[McMullan]

Well, in general you want to be careful adding carbonates. It’s very easy to get your mash pH too high, which leads to decreased efficiency and increased tannin extraction. Sodium bicarbonate should be used sparingly, and ideally when you have past measurements to go by, or a calculator you really trust. Calcium carbonate is twice the carbonate, but even worse is sparingly soluble. So you don’t get a predictable pH in the mash, and to the extent it gets transferred with your wort, it continues to muck with your pH during fermentation.

At least this is my understanding. Someone else could weigh in.

I’ve damaged a batch or two with CaCO3 (and MgSO4, for that matter), and feel my brewing has only improved now that I’m not trying to match carbonates in water profiles at all.

I've never had any problems using CaCO3. Mash pH is always where expected, but I only add what's recommended by software written by Graham Wheeler. Very small amounts generally. My understanding is that it dissolves more easily in a mash vs water alone. Other software I use (e.g. BeerSmith3) sometimes recommends both CaCO3 and baking soda (NaHCO3), depending on the desired profile.

 

[faithie999]

I've never had any problems using CaCO3. Mash pH is always where expected, but I only add what's recommended by software written by Graham Wheeler. Very small amounts generally. My understanding is that it dissolves more easily in a mash vs water alone. Other software I use (e.g. BeerSmith3) sometimes recommends both CaCO3 and baking soda (NaHCO3), depending on the desired profile.

do you put the entire calculated quantity of CaCO3 (calculated for your total volume of water) into the mash water, or do you calculate the amount of CaCO3 just for the volume of mash water?

 

[McMullan]

do you put the entire calculated quantity of CaCO3 (calculated for your total volume of water) into the mash water, or do you calculate the amount of CaCO3 just for the volume of mash water?

I only treat mash water. The main point, in my mind, of water treatment is to facilitate enzyme reactions in the mash. So post mash water additions - sparge, boil and sometimes FV - are not treated.

 

[AlexKay]

Well, in general you want to be careful adding carbonates. It’s very easy to get your mash pH too high, which leads to decreased efficiency and increased tannin extraction. Sodium bicarbonate should be used sparingly, and ideally when you have past measurements to go by, or a calculator you really trust. Calcium carbonate is twice the carbonate, but even worse is sparingly soluble. So you don’t get a predictable pH in the mash, and to the extent it gets transferred with your wort, it continues to muck with your pH during fermentation.

At least this is my understanding. Someone else could weigh in.

I’ve damaged a batch or two with CaCO3 (and MgSO4, for that matter), and feel my brewing has only improved now that I’m not trying to match carbonates in water profiles at all.

Following this up with this link.

 

[McMullan]

Following this up with this link.

I don't use Bru’n Water. Nor do I use RO water. I use tap water. Nor do I recognise any of the proposed 'issues' with using CaCO3 to treat mash water. I routinely monitor pH from mash to glass and can't not recommend the use of CaCO3.

 

[AlexKay]

I don't use Bru’n Water. Nor do I use RO water. I use tap water. Nor do I recognise any of the proposed 'issues' with using CaCO3 to treat mash water. I routinely monitor pH from mash to glass and can't not recommend the use of CaCO3.

Hey, no problem, it’s your beer. My advice to those just starting to adjust their water is to avoid MgSO4 and CaCO3. I think that will help their beer, and plus, simpler is good.

 

[slayer021175666]

Is there any degradation of the salts to worry about? I will brew it tomorrow but, I'd like to treat the water tonight so it's ready to go in the morning.

 

[McMullan]

Is there any degradation of the salts to worry about? I will brew it tomorrow but, I'd like to treat the water tonight so it's ready to go in the morning.

Calcium chloride reacts with moisture, including air moisture, so it needs to be stored in a sealed bag or container. It's good practice to store brewing salts in a labeled sealable containers. I use recycled plastic food-grade tubs.

 

[slayer021175666]

McMullan,
I meant as far as treating the water tonight and letting the treated water sit until morning. I already treated it though, just now. I don't see why any of that stuff would break down or degrade in the water overnight but, I just thought I'd ask.