Looking for a dry DIPA without corn sugar

[zoomzilla]

Does anyone have a recipe for a dry, very hoppy DIPA in the 9-10% ABV range that does not use corn sugar or any other adjuncts. I've been trying to brew one and they've all turned out overly sweet, sometimes undrinkable. I'm trying to find out if it can be done without using any refined sugars.

 

[cantrell00]

you are gonna have a tough time going from 1.080-1.088 to 1.010-1.014

without any sugar adjuncts.

It's possible but you would need to mash REALLY low for a LONG time & then pitch a huge starter of a very highly attenuating yeast.

146-147 degrees for 75-90 minutes. Stay away from any crystal malt.

Pitch a 2-3l starter of wlp090 into a 5 gallon batch and oxygenate the hell out of it with pure 02.

You are gonna need 85-90% attenuation and the OG would need to be dead on.

Not impossible but tough to do nonetheless.

Why are you opposed to sugar if the intent is to be emphatically "dry".

 

[jammin]

easy. add a teaspoon of alpha amylase enzyme to the primary.

a 2hr mash helps too. when mashing low, extra time is an absolute necessity

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Pretty simple really. Pitch 1.25million/1ml/1ºp WLP001 yeast into 65ºF wort that you mashed at 146 for 90 minutes. Add 1lpm of o2 for each gallon of wort. Ferment at 65 for the first 3 days then raise one degree per day to 68.

For a grain bill do a 50/50 of domestic 2 row and maris otter. Don't use ANY other grain. Shoot for an og of 1.080 and a FG of 1.006-1.008.

I use table sugar in mine because it is cheaper than some malt. It also helps to keep the body thin. My latest revision had 4% c20 as well as 6% table sugar. OG: 19.1ºP FG: 1.5ºP.

 

[Kee]

I am also curious why you want to avoid sugar. WLP099 might do it, but I just use sucrose as needed.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

99 is the wrong yeast for a dry ipa. It might handle high alcohol but it will have the wrong feel in the finished product. Cal ale is good to 10% pretty easily, unless you have some bad practices and then it could be tough to stretch cal ale to 10%.

 

[zoomzilla]

Nothing really against sugar, I just want to see if I can do it without. I've mashed at 145 for 90min then stepped up to 155 for 30min. I use big starters and oxygenate with pure o2. I use nothing but two row or maris otter and I still haven't been able to get the sweetness out. Even the one I did that attenuated from 1.090 to 1.009 was overly sweet.

 

[cantrell00]

Nothing really against sugar, I just want to see if I can do it without. I've mashed at 145 for 90min then stepped up to 155 for 30min. I use big starters and oxygenate with pure o2. I use nothing but two row or maris otter and I still haven't been able to get the sweetness out. Even the one I did that attenuated from 1.090 to 1.009 was overly sweet.

Not sure where the sweetness would be coming from based on the above.. I'm stumped.

 

[brewprint]

Not sure where the sweetness would be coming from based on the above.. I'm stumped.

Quite possibly the hops?

 

[cantrell00]

Quite possibly the hops?

I would think not but what else could be left?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Ahh... you are going too big and getting the sweetness and body of the alcohol. It isn't really sweet but you are perceiving it that way. Just drop your ABV a bit and you'll be all set.

Make sure you have enough IBU coming from an aggressive bittering charge too. I'd skip the FWH and make sure you have a big 90 minute addition. Otherwise you will get too much sweet from the hops.

 

[zoomzilla]

My last recipe included a 90min addition, but even with great attenuation it's still going to have a FG of about 1.018, way too sweet. If I want to get a clean, crisp, hoppy DIPA I think I'm going to have to get that last 20 points of gravity from corn sugar.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Why will the fg be that high? How do you know? You still haven't said what yeast your are using. That plays a huge role.

 

[zoomzilla]

Why will the fg be that high? How do you know? You still haven't said what yeast your are using. That plays a huge role.

I used a 2 liter starter of wlp002 and oxygenated with pure o2. With an OG of 1.090 and attenuation of 85%(unlikely) it will get to 1.014.

 

[Sovietnam]

I would think not but what else could be left?

Fermentation time?
How long are you leaving it in the primary?
after the bulk of the fermentables are gone it seems to take exponentially longer to get those last few points down.
Although you did say you got one down to 1.009 and still too sweet? Is there any point in your process you are creating UN-fermentable sugars somehow? doesn't seem like it with such a long/low mash time. Maybe your temp reading are lower than actual temp during the mash? Bad thermo? ? ??

 

[ThomasPaine]

White labs says in the description of that yeast that it leaves residual sweetness. I like WLP011 when I want to get a nice clean finish (but it also says low attenuation). What is the extent of your exp with yeast? If you haven't tried a lot, you will be very surprised at the effect that they can have on beer. I still remember the taste of my first Belgian. I didn't like it at first, but after drinking 9 cases of the stuff it seems that i can't get enough of the Belgian yeast. I wish you luck.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

002 is the wrong yeast for a clean, dry, high-gravity, american style DIPA. You are going to want to change that to something that attenuates more and ferments cleaner. If you want to stay english go 007. I get 90+% apparent attenuation from that strain. If you want the 95%ADF that see to want then you are stuck with 001 or 090. You could use a monster belgian strain but it won't be the clean, dry finish you are after. You could also secondary with brett to drop the FG. Or all brett? Try 644. It is the fake-brett.

No matter what you are going to have to switch strains. 002 is not the yeast you are looking for in a beer like this.