Lagering: Racking to Secondary, Necessary, or just Optimal

[beardown2489]

I'd like to hear thoughts on why lagering is always done in a secondary.

I don't have CO2 to purge with and all my carboys are currently on use?

Do I really need to go buy co2 and a new carboy this afternoon? Or can j get away with just leaving it in primary for a month while lagering?

Beer didn't have signs of Diacetyl at 1.17. So I let it self rise to 65 degrees over the last 3 days. I'm assuming that should be plenty of time and heat to push this brew to FG.

I'd like to assume that assumption is right, leave everything is, and just crank it down to 35.

Will the trub affect my lagering. I'm new to this, so don't sugarcoat anything. Give it to me straight.

I realize j should get a CO2 canister anyway. But I have enough carboys as it is. I'd like to avoid buying another of possible.

Thanks

 

[Homercidal]

This is a great question. You may get a few different answers.

Personally, I'd never lager in primary. But I don't brew them very often and I would always make sure to have a secondary on hand.

Then again, you could argue that the beer will be at or near freezing point, so the yeast should hold up very well as far as causing off-flavors.

So in your position, I'd consider checking gravity and making sure it's where you want it, then drop that temp and get started lagering. You could always rack to secondary any time a secondary becomes available. If you are only lagering for 3-4 weeks, then you might not have a problem keeping it on the yeast the whole time.

 

[TheMadKing]

Sub,

I'm curious too. I've got my first Altbier lagering in the primary right now because I assumed it was fine. It's cleared nicely (especially for using WY1007) and I'm just giving it another week or so to clean up the flavors.

 

[Yooper]

I always rack my lagers to a new vessel. Usually, that's a keg now- but before I was kegging, it was a carboy.

Of course, I don't leave my ales in primary all that long, either. I prefer the flavor of both lagers and ales that spent less time in contact with the yeast cake, while others may prefer the flavor of more contact time.

I like the "clean", "crisp" finish of a lager, and so I rack to a different vessel for the lagering. No harm will come if left in primary, except for a risk of some oxidation if left in a bucket, if you prefer the flavor of more yeast character.

 

[d3track]

I use a secondary to lager, 1) to get it off the primary yeast cake for 2-3 months 2) that's too much headspace for extended aging. Surface area is your enemy at this point.

I know many use a keg to lager, or will bottle and then lager in the bottle.

 

[TheMadKing]

I guess I'll be using one of my two new kegs sooner than I thought.

Is it ok to use a keg to lager without purging with CO2? or will it oxidize even faster than leaving it in a carboy or bucket by doing that?

apologies, OP not trying to threadjack

 

[Yooper]

I guess I'll be using one of my two new kegs sooner than I thought.

Is it ok to use a keg to lager without purging with CO2? or will it oxidize even faster than leaving it in a carboy or bucket by doing that?

apologies, OP not trying to threadjack

Purging the headspace with co2 would be ideal- but it would be ok to not do that if you don't have co2 handy. There still would be less headspace in a keg that is closed than in some other vessels (like a bucket), but if you have a "co2 charger" or something like that to purge the headspace that would definitely be preferable.

 

[cooper]

When doing lagers I like to cold crash to 32F after primary fermentation is complete, fine with gelatine for a couple of days, and then transfer to keg and set to serving psi until it's carbed, it'll lager and you can sample it after the first week to see how it's coming along. Then when you want to start serving just kick the temp up to whatever temp you like serving at and you're good to go.

 

[WhiskeySam]

You are going to get as many answers as replies on this one.

1) You can lager in your primary. Many people (including me) like to cold crash the primary to settle it, then rack it to a slightly smaller carboy (6 gal to 5 gal for example) and then lager in that 5 gal carboy. It pulls the large yeast and trub mess out of the secondary and lets you settle the rest of what's left.
2) OK, number 2 is a restatement of number 1. I just didn't want to change the numbering structure of this response. I believe you'll get clearer beer if you lager in a secondary, but YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT.

 

[WhiskeySam]

Also, IMO, concerns about oxygenation from surface contact in the headspace with room air are completely overblown.

 

[kombat]

I just let the beer lager in the kegs/bottles. I do 2 weeks primary, then 1 week d-rest, then straight into the keg, in the freezer, on CO2. If I can resist drinking it too quickly, it's "lagering" in the freezer. The longer I leave it alone, the more "lagered" it becomes.

Same deal with bottling. Just bottle as normal, give them 3 weeks to carb up, then put them in the fridge for "lagering" in the bottles.

 

[j1n]

Whats the point in lagering other than clarity?

 

[Yooper]

That's a huge question! http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers has the best simple explanation I've seen.


In short, this explanation comes from that page:
"cold stabilization (lagering) : the low temperature causes haze forming proteins and polyphenols come out of solution and drop out of suspension. There is also a mellowing of flavors and some formation of esters happening. The latter becomes only significant after more than 12 weeks [Narziss 2005]"


Some of the polyphenols that drop out are due to hops, and some are tannins from the grain. That really gives the lager the distinctive "crisp" and "clean" finish.

 

[ibbones]

I am transferring two lagers tomorrow. My reason? I have a fridge for kegs (and it's empty right now) and a chest freezer that will hold two buckets. I want the space to ferment two more beers while I let my lagers sit for about six weeks. By then I can keg four batches and drink while I brew two more.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

I'm comfortable leaving my beer in the primary for up to 4 weeks, but I don't consider that lagering. When I lager I transfer to secondary or keg. Lagering really takes 4 weeks after fermentation , minimum. Therefore if you are actually trying to make a good lager, get it off the spent yeast and into a gas impermeable vessel, such as your glass carboy. The probability of getting negative off flavors as a result of autolysis and yeast cell decomposition will gradually increase after a particular inflection point, where that is a am not sure, I'm going to use my beers to test it. Transferring to a glass or stainless secondary isn't required but you are mitigating risk by doing so and improving the beer IMO.