The biggest risk to making the lagers not "lagery" in my opinion is oxidation. Do everything possible to avoid hot side aeration and cold side oxidation, to get a brighter cleaner tasting lager.
I've been experimenting with pressure fermentation using my fermzilla, done different temps from 12-18c (53-63f) and at different pressure from 15-30 PSI. I've not really noticed a difference with different temps or pressures, they all seen to produce decent beer, which I suppose supports the theory that you can ferment lager warm under pressure. I've gone back to non pressure vessels though to try and get a more crisp lager taste, but the beer seems to come out exactly the same regardless.I've seen more homebrewers switch to pressure fermentation and I've tried it a few times myself fermenting in a keg at 65F and 15 psi. It certainly finished faster, but still required many weeks of cold conditioning to really come together
Thanks for the suggestion, but yeah I decant all the 'supernatant' and just pitch the slurry. I did once pitch the whole thing but then stupidly oxygenated the wort with 5ltrs of 'beer's in it, then I realised what I'd done and panicked for 2 months that it would be oxidized, in the end it surprisingly wasnt, the beer came out fine.Are you crashing and decanting the overburden liquid to pitch only the yeast cake? Five liters of supernatant over 400~500 ml of yeast would seem like a lot of "spent" wort that might detract from the finished beer if it were pitched with the yeast.
I have not done that, as I am not setup for that, but I do at least underlet in my MLT and I have done the boil and then chill to mash temp the water.
OG should really never get above 1.048. You will get much less malt character with a 4.7-5% beer that starts at 1.046.
Minimize your hot side aeration. Ideally preboil your water at least and try underletting and minimize stirring.
What is your boil off rate? You don’t want an intense boil. Just above a simmer is ideal. Minimal amount of time to remove all DMS but that’s it. If you’re at sea level 70 minutes is fine. You can even keep the lid partially on for the first 40 to help reduce the heat applied to the kettle. What’s your setup?
There’s no real need to pressure ferment unless you’re fermenting lager yeast really warm. Pitch cold and ferment cold. Pitch at 44-46 and don’t let it get above 50, unless you’re using the Augustiner strain. If you’re really concerned about diacetyl and think you need a D rest you don’t really need to get above 54. If you pitch enough yeast and aerate, well lagers can finish in 6-7 days at below 50 no problem. How are you aerating?
Homebrew calculators tend to underestimate the amount of yeast. Aim for a pitch rate of at least 2m/ml/*plato if fermenting cold.
Most traditional German or Czech breweries aren’t adding hops much past 20 minutes left in the boil. Yes there are exceptions but try FW or 90/70, 40 then 20. With the largest addition being at 40. There are aspects to Noble hops that need to be boiled off actually. Don’t think of your hop additions like you would for an IPA. The quality of a lot of noble hops, especially the Homebrew level stuff, is really really bad. The hop processing equipment and mentality in the traditional hop growing regions of Europe weirdly is not quite up to the level as it is in other countries when it comes to preserving the aromatic properties of the hops. They’re just not treated as well and tend to degrade rather quickly. Lately I’ve actually been impressed by the quality of the hops coming out of France and Slovenia. If you can find some Aramis I’d highly recommend it.
Personally I don’t think dry yeast works that well for lagers. The liquid variants of 34/70 are hard to beat. 2124/830/global. My favorite is the Andech’s strain but it’s a seasonal from the few yeast companies that offer it.
Step mashing would go a long ways if you could do it. 145/154/162/168 is my ideal regime. Sometimes skipping the 154. A single Decoction to take you from 145-162 would be the best/easiest route if you were going to do it.
How are you purging your kegs and transfer lines? The first thing to go with even the tiniest o2 pickup is hop aroma.
You mention you’re measuring pH which is good but mash pH isn’t the only time you should measure. I’d recommend mashing a bit higher, 5.4ish. Aim for a kettle full pH of around 5.4. Higher kettle pH results in faster DMS conversion but much over 5.4 and bitterness starts to get a bit harsh. Always adjust pH within the last 10 minutes of the boil to near 5.1, with lactic acid or for true lager character Sour wort. If you’re using kettle finings the optimal pH is 5.1 and always add them in the last 5 minutes as they can denature. Lowering the pH helps the yeast start fermenting faster and can lower your final beer pH which can help with the perception of crispness. Ideally somewhere in the 4.3 range for final beer pH.
Last but not least krausening and/or spunding. If you are krausening ideally with the next batch of beer but you need to brew pretty regularly to do that. There’s a krausening calculator on brewersfriend and if you have a scale you can do it by weight to avoid opening the keg.
You mention you’re measuring pH which is good but mash pH isn’t the only time you should measure. I’d recommend mashing a bit higher, 5.4ish. Aim for a kettle full pH of around 5.4. Higher kettle pH results in faster DMS conversion but much over 5.4 and bitterness starts to get a bit harsh. Always adjust pH within the last 10 minutes of the boil to near 5.1, with lactic acid or for true lager character Sour wort.
What is the best way to determine the amount of lactic needed at the end to get down to a specific pH? Is it just a matter of trial and error or can I estimate close enough by seeing how much lactic I need to add in Bru'n water to drop the pH from 5.4 to 5.1? As an example, the pilsner I am planning on brewing has a mash pH of 5.40 and to get it to 5.1 Bru'n water comes up with an addition of 4ml of 88% lactic acid.
I have found a rough correlation of 1ml of lactic equals about .1 pH unit for my 5.5 gallon batches. So 4ml of lactic sounds like a great place to start!What is the best way to determine the amount of lactic needed at the end to get down to a specific pH? Is it just a matter of trial and error or can I estimate close enough by seeing how much lactic I need to add in Bru'n water to drop the pH from 5.4 to 5.1? As an example, the pilsner I am planning on brewing has a mash pH of 5.40 and to get it to 5.1 Bru'n water comes up with an addition of 4ml of 88% lactic acid.
I would like to know more about this. I think it is a matter of relative effectiveness. At boiling point, the solubility of Oxygen is zero, so naturally it will be driven off leading up to the boiling point and at the boiling point. What you are describing sounds like absolute sterile conditions, which would eliminate everything. For all intensive purposes, boiling strike water is effective and easy to accomplish with homebrew setups.Look up Annie Johnson's presentation at the 2017 NHC on Chezk Pils and she says 4.9 mash pH is what Urkel does. I would also like to let everyone know that DO water can't be made by just boiling it. You need 15 psi at 250* for 15 min to get it. My rate in the USN had me not only running the evaps for making fresh water but also the deairating feed water tank.
I have found a rough correlation of 1ml of lactic equals about .1 pH unit for my 5.5 gallon batches. So 4ml of lactic sounds like a great place to start!
Look up Annie Johnson's presentation at the 2017 NHC on Chezk Pils and she says 4.9 mash pH is what Urkel does.
I would double check that. IIRC, she said (repeatedly) that Urquell brings their mash water down to 4.7-4.9. That would land the mash pH somewhere higher. And to make the 4.7-4.9 water pH information really useful, you'd also need to know the starting water profile (and grain bill).
Look up Annie Johnson's presentation at the 2017 NHC on Chezk Pils and she says 4.9 mash pH is what Urkel does. I would also like to let everyone know that DO water can't be made by just boiling it. You need 15 psi at 250* for 15 min to get it. My rate in the USN had me not only running the evaps for making fresh water but also the deairating feed water tank.
You might up the IBUs a little, Bo Pils are a little more bitter then regular Pils.
sorry but I had to mention that it's actually just the opposite. German pilsner have a firmer bitterness, while BoPils are softer.
5D German pilsner: Flavor: Medium to high hop bitterness dominates the palate and lingers into the aftertaste. Moderate to moderately-low grainy-sweet malt character supports the hop bitterness. Low to high floral, spicy, or herbal hop flavor. Clean fermentation profile. Dry to medium-dry, crisp, well-attenuated finish with a bitter aftertaste and light malt flavor. Examples made with water with higher sulfate levels often will have a low sulfury flavor that accentuates the dryness and lengthens the finish; this is acceptable but not mandatory. Some versions have a soft finish with more of a malt flavor, but still with noticeable hop bitterness and flavor, with the balance still towards bitterness
(BoPils has gone away, and been replace with Czech premium lager)
3B: Characteristic Ingredients: Soft water with low sulfate and carbonate content, Saazer-type hops, Czech malt, Czech lager yeast. Low ion water provides a distinctively soft, rounded hop profile despite high hopping rates. The bitterness level of some larger commercial examples has dropped in recent years, although not as much as in many contemporary German examples.
Style Comparison: German pilsner is lighter in body and color, drier, crisper, and more fully attenuated, with more of a lingering bitterness, and with higher carbonation than a Czech Premium Pale Lager.
I feel you. I don't think I've ever had a homebrew made by anyone that tasted like a commercial lager. To me, hops have nothing to do with it, though - which is probably due to the fact that the lager I grew up on is Bavarian Helles, which is not all that hoppy. I rather find homebrew versions lacking in fermentation character. Lodo folks will say it's oxygen.
My uneducated guess is that it has to do with a difference in the fermentation process and the fact that commercial breweries ferment their lagers much colder than us homebrewers.
I'm driving myself bonkers trying to find the article again, but I remember reading somewhere online that most of big name breweries in the US switched to pressure fermentation back in the 60s in order to crank out their product on a much shorter time table.
Really stoked on Ireks malt. Probably won’t go back to using anything from Weyermann any time soon. I think there’s only one Homebrew outlet for it online so far but hopefully more in the future. Seek it out if you can.
May I ask why you wouldn't go using Wyermann any time soon? Any experience you would share?
I just like the malt character of the Ireks better. Much more interesting to me. I’ve used Nothing but Weyermann pils for a while. Erecela, Barke, Floor Bohmeian mostly, and the Ireks stands out to me. And it’s less expensive.
I have only tried their Vienna and Pils malts but looking forward to trying more from.
Similar experiences here. Brewed a lot with Rahr and Briess (ales) with Weyermann as my "go to" for lagers. I've used BestMalz on occasion and found it to be reliability good, though I had some serious difficulties with Malt Gems from Best due mostly to the fact it is pre-crushed and didn't play nice with my mash setup. IIRC, BestMalz is the favored maltster for most of Germany's commercial breweries.Thank you. I've come across Ireks malt before, but never dared to try more of it ( I did try their Pilsner malt 4 years ago in a brew, but didn't pay much attention to it ). Maybe I should. I mostly only use Pilsner malt these days. I liked the Weyermann Barke Pilsner malt, but I feel its price point is way too high and it will detract me from buying it again. I also like Bestmalz Pilsner malt ( better than the Weyermann counterpart ), and it's usually cheaper than Weyermann and it has been my go-to for some time.
Glad to hear the Ireks malts " stand out " - I am looking forward to finding and using them.
Enter your email address to join: