So I have read a lot of threads about the horrors of bottling an NEIPA. I do not have the equipment to keg at this time and want to make a hop bomb. Wondering if I do somethings "similar" to an NEIPA if I will have the same problems that most are having when bottling them. I want to pound the hops towards to end of the boil. Not sure on the whirlpool at 170 F.....would like to do that but am afraid of oxygenation. I want to dry hop during active fermentation and also want to pull that dry hop bag then add a new one after fermentation is done. So, two different dry hop charges. Want to use wyeast 1318. Maybe a pound of flaked oats? Is there a way to make a beer using some of the NEIPA techniques but not get the oxygenation issue bottling that some are having? Has anyone been able to pin point what it is about bottling this style that causes them to go bad so fast in bottles?
Kinda NEIPA Recipe Questions
- Thread starter jmyers04
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ca_baracus
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There was another post that talked about this that I saw and I think one of the guys thinks that the oats are to blame. Subd to hear more.
Hmmm interesting. Id be happy to hear that. Although the true style has oats. But I think maybe leaving them out wouldn’t be that bad. Maybe substitute some flour in the boil to get a little bit of haze and smoothness?
mirthfuldragon
Well-Known Member
I think you are talking about me from https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=636143.
I read up a bunch on NEIPAs as well and came to the same conclusion - that bottling and the NEIPA style are not really compatible. My kegerator is at capacity right now as well.
So right now I have a rye IPA bottle conditioning - no oats in the grain bill, used Omega's West Coast Ale yeast instead of 1318. Hop addition was a basic bittering addition, some dry cascade at 15min, and then over a pound of fresh wet hops for the last five minutes through a half hour whirlpool. Dry-hop with 1.5 ounces of dry leaf cascade, and which started at ~50% attenuation (day 3).
My thought process is that if the hops are the source of oxidation, this beer should show it. Given how highly-hopped beers have been before the NEIPA style became popular, and given those don't oxidize nearly as fast, I have been thinking on this issue a bit.
Oats or yeast could be the culprit. A typical oatmeal stout is dark enough that you wouldn't see the color change. The same applies for 1318 - English bitters are a little dark to very dark to begin with. I'd like to make a lightly hopped NEIPA / English Bitter crossbreed and see how that oxidizes.
Given that so many people here with much more experience than I are point to the hops, that's probably the big part of it, so I'm probably off on a goose chase.
BlkWater_brewer
Well-Known Member
I am at a loss here. We brew an award winning NEIPA and bottle it no different than any other of our beers without an issue. 80% of the hops are either whirlpooled or dry hopped. We just canned our first 20bbl batch a month ago and again had no issues. Even the few cases that are left taste just as good as the batch that is waiting to be kegged. There is no issue with oxidation from whirlpooling and we open our tanks for dry hopping and just seal them back up. No addition of co2 blankets, we even have bubbled co2 through the trub in the fermentor to get extra aroma from the hops. We cold crash down to 34-36 before transferring to the brite tank. Again, same process as our Saissons, Stouts and IPA's. We are brewing usually 7bbls a week and only lost a batch do to an issue with our yeast pitch. I think oxidation may not be the problem here.
One issue though we use only hop pellets and not leaf hops. The leaf hops could be the issue, never really liked using fresh hops. We only make one special batch of IPA with our brewers home harvested cones, but we blow through in the tasting room in 2 days so oxidation never becomes an issue that we know of.
mirthfuldragon
Well-Known Member
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597557
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=632989
Those were enough to throw me off bottle-conditioning NEIPAs.
BlkWater_brewer
Well-Known Member
I actually do remember both of those now. I will also admit that I have been working getting a brewery off the ground and I have lost some of my homebrewing ways. Brite tank, chilling to 28-30 degrees and no problems. Out of the realm of most homebrewers in retrospect. Gotta get back to my roots it appears.
So back to my question. What parts of an NEIPA can I incorporate into a normal IPA that wont oxide? Whirlpool? Dry hop during fermentation then afterwards? Maybe not use 1318 wyeast? No oats?
thehaze
Well-Known Member
I do not think the problem is the oats or the yeast.
I think the issue lies with the hop charge added during fermentation. I still brew IPAs using lots of late and whirlpool hops and dry hopping and have no issue.
My next brews will focus on simplifying the grain bill and skipping fermentation hops, but keeping all the other additions. I think I will also skip the oats, just for the sake of it.
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
If you want to brew a hop bomb, regular, ipa just mash low, 148 or so, do about 70 ibu's, and add a ton of hops in the Whirlpool and dry hop after fermentation. Keep the grain bill simple. Use just 2 row or maybe add Vienna or a dash of munich. Use jucy hops or pine/spicy/dank hops. My favorite combo is Chinook and Cascade. Use a clean ale yeast like wlp001 or sa05 and bottle to 2.0-2.2 c02. This will get you a nice dry, chewy, west coast ipa. Nail that down first then add some oats and mash higher, add less ibu's, and all jucy hops for an ne style IPA. I much more prefer west coast style but it's good to know how to make both.
Be sure to check your bottling process to make sure all racking canes are working correctly and not letting air in anywhere.
Oats and hops shouldn't oxidize your beer. I've brewed a lot of beer with a ton of hops, both pellet and cone, and flaked grains and never have had any issues. Whirlpooling will also not oxidize your beer. It's good for wort to get oxygen before fermentation so the yeast can grow and be healthy.
Ok, so here is what I am thinking.
10 lbs Pale 2 row
1 lb victory
Mash at 149F
1 oz cascade at 60 min
1.5 oz galaxy 1.5 oz mosaic 1.5 oz citra at 5 min
1 oz of each at flame out and then Whirlpool with 1 oz of the three above at 170 F
Use us-05 yeast.
After fermentation is done dry hop with 2 oz galaxy 2 oz mosaic 2 oz citra
hop bomb?
10 lbs Pale 2 row
1 lb victory
Mash at 149F
1 oz cascade at 60 min
1.5 oz galaxy 1.5 oz mosaic 1.5 oz citra at 5 min
1 oz of each at flame out and then Whirlpool with 1 oz of the three above at 170 F
Use us-05 yeast.
After fermentation is done dry hop with 2 oz galaxy 2 oz mosaic 2 oz citra
hop bomb?
Also cant decide whether or not two dry hop charges is worth it?
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
I'd lose the victory. It's a little too bready/crackery for me in an IPA. Id either use crystal 10 or 20 or Vienna
Do you know about first wort hopping for your 60 min additions? (FWH)
Do you know where your IBU's are at with 1 oz of cascade in a 60 min boil?
Also, I don't really see the point in doing a 5 min hop addition, then at flameout, then again in the whirlpool. I'd just drop it all in the whirlpool.
I'd just do one dry hop addition. I've played around with when to dry hop and I don't really think there's too much of a difference. Esp if you're using a ton of hops but play around with it and see if you can see any difference.
I'd say this would qualify as a hop bomb!
Have you put it into beersmith or any other recipe calculator just to see where you're at with IBU's, gravity, etc?
I'd lose the victory. It's a little too bready/crackery for me in an IPA. Id either use crystal 10 or 20 or Vienna
Do you know about first wort hopping for your 60 min additions? (FWH)
Do you know where your IBU's are at with 1 oz of cascade in a 60 min boil?
Also, I don't really see the point in doing a 5 min hop addition, then at flameout, then again in the whirlpool. I'd just drop it all in the whirlpool.
I'd just do one dry hop addition. I've played around with when to dry hop and I don't really think there's too much of a difference. Esp if you're using a ton of hops but play around with it and see if you can see any difference.
I'd say this would qualify as a hop bomb!
Have you put it into beersmith or any other recipe calculator just to see where you're at with IBU's, gravity, etc?
Yeah. Says IBU would be 91. OG 1.046 and FG 1.011. ABV of 4.6.
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
I think the IBU is too high and the gravity too low. Unless you're going for a session ipa. Either way I'd bring it down to 70 IBU or so.
