Kegging issue

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thejuanald

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I just started legging again and I'm using a sanke keg. I kegged on Sunday and set the pressure to 11 psi, I have 10 feet of 3/16" beverage line, I have the temp set at 3.3C(~38F), and I'm using a picnic tap. I decided to try pulling a couple of pints tonight and when I open the tap (all the way), there is a ton of co2 in the line and it kind of explodes out of the picnic tap and I get a lot of foam and make a mess because it blows a lot of the beer out of the glass I am filling.

What am I doing wrong here?
 
I would probably reduce the length of your beer line to closer to 3.5-4 feet. Not sure if thats whats causing the problem, just a thought. You're gonna get a lot of resistance from 11 feet of line. Im pretty new to kegging myself, but I follow the brewers friend formula for calculating beer line length
 
I have 11 feet of the same line and have found that the longer line helps reduce foam. I also serve around 10 psi at 38 F. How did you carbonate the keg?
 
I would probably reduce the length of your beer line to closer to 3.5-4 feet. Not sure if thats whats causing the problem, just a thought. You're gonna get a lot of resistance from 11 feet of line. Im pretty new to kegging myself, but I follow the brewers friend formula for calculating beer line length

I've always seen that short lines are bad. I had a kegerator for commercial beers before when I lived at like 6000 ft. altitude but now I'm at sea level so maybe that's the difference? That was also using a real faucet, though.
 
I have 11 feet of the same line and have found that the longer line helps reduce foam. I also serve around 10 psi at 38 F. How did you carbonate the keg?

I just set the co2 regulator to 11 psi and let it sit for 5 days.
 
It's weird, one calculator says 10 feet and another says 3 feet.

In my experience, the calculators aren't great for 'real world' serving. They work great for long runs with 1/4" tubing (like 40 feet, as in a bar) but not for our home set ups.

I have found that to get good pours, I need about 1 foot of 3/16" beverage line for every 1 psi on the regulator at 40 degrees. So, my lines are 12' with a 12 psi setting on my regulator. In general, the more restriction the better as with short lines it will blast out like a fire hose.

I'm puzzled about all your foam, though. That doesn't seem at all possible, since the beer shouldn't be even completely carbed up yet, let alone overcarbed. I'm not that experienced with sanke kegs, though. Is your connection tight (no air leaks)?
 
In my experience, the calculators aren't great for 'real world' serving. They work great for long runs with 1/4" tubing (like 40 feet, as in a bar) but not for our home set ups.

I have found that to get good pours, I need about 1 foot of 3/16" beverage line for every 1 psi on the regulator at 40 degrees. So, my lines are 12' with a 12 psi setting on my regulator. In general, the more restriction the better as with short lines it will blast out like a fire hose.

I'm puzzled about all your foam, though. That doesn't seem at all possible, since the beer shouldn't be even completely carbed up yet, let alone overcarbed. I'm not that experienced with sanke kegs, though. Is your connection tight (no air leaks)?

Yeah everything is tightened really well, my only thought is that maybe it's the coupler?
 
I've always seen that short lines are bad. I had a kegerator for commercial beers before when I lived at like 6000 ft. altitude but now I'm at sea level so maybe that's the difference?

You know its funny. Ive used that calculator to determine one of my hose lengths at 4 feet, and I just randomly tried a 7 foot one and have noticed no difference. But I will say, Im thinking the brewers friend one may be wrong cuz I just went out and tried a few more calculators and got closer to 10 feet
 
Yeah everything is tightened really well, my only thought is that maybe it's the coupler?

Did you replace the seals with this keg? I'm referring to the post seal for the liquid out post. The post can be tight and still cause a leak with a bad seal. I've seen them go bad even being brand new. I suggest checking that liquid post seal and use the keg lube. My guess is 99% that's your issue or a poppet seal.
 
Did you replace the seals with this keg? I'm referring to the post seal for the liquid out post. The post can be tight and still cause a leak with a bad seal. I've seen them go bad even being brand new. I suggest checking that liquid post seal and use the keg lube. My guess is 99% that's your issue or a poppet seal.

It's a sanke keg, but I did take it apart,
took the spear out, cleaned everything, including the seal, and put everything back together, including the retaining ring.

I'm starting to think it's the coupler.
 
I use a picnic tap. I've had two situations where the beer came out like crazy.
In one case it was at the beginning. I used a hose clamp to connect the line to the tap and it wasn't necessary (it caused the opening to be pinched open, causing beer to fly out).
In the second case I put some carb sugar in with the beer at transfer and added a little c02 to force out the oxygen in the tank. The result was a keg under so much pressure that it sent foam flying out the tap like a geyser inside down.
 
It's a sanke keg, but I did take it apart,
took the spear out, cleaned everything, including the seal, and put everything back together, including the retaining ring.

I'm starting to think it's the coupler.

I only use the cola kegs. Do those kegs use lube on the seals? If it is a coupler that could be the issue.
 
You know its funny. Ive used that calculator to determine one of my hose lengths at 4 feet, and I just randomly tried a 7 foot one and have noticed no difference. But I will say, Im thinking the brewers friend one may be wrong cuz I just went out and tried a few more calculators and got closer to 10 feet

The Brewer's Friend calculator is not wrong. It's just giving you the minimum to meet the resistance for pouring flow per the math and accepted flow rate:

I hate all of the misleading information on the web regarding "balancing" draft beer systems. The vast majority of it completely ignores basic laws of fluid mechanics and makes assumptions that often don't apply to homebrewers and home-draft users. The first misconception might stem from the phrase "line balancing". This implies that there's some magic balance between pressure and resistance that results in a good pour, and anything else will cause foam. This couldn't be further from the truth.

The reason resistance is required in a draft system is to slow the flow of beer down until it's gentle enough that the CO2 doesn't get knocked out of solution and result in a ton of foam as it makes it from the faucet to the glass. How slow and gentle the pour needs to be to accomplish this is highly dependent on the serving temperature and carbonation level of the beer. The warmer or more highly carbed the beer is, the slower and gentler the pour needs to be.

For commercial systems where the beer is stored between 33° and 36°F and the carbonation level is between 2.5 and 2.7 vol, people have found that the fastest a beer can be poured without excessive foam is ~1 gal/min. All of the equations, resistance figures, calculators, and most of the articles you've likely found assume this flow rate. There are a couple problems with this assumption. First, if you use those equations and resistance figures you'll end up with a flow rate of 1 gal/min, which in many cases is too fast and will result in a firehose of foam. The second is that line resistance is not a constant for a given type of beer line, it's dependent on the flow rate. This means that those figures and equations are completely useless for any flow rate other than 1 gal/min.

The other common misconception is that extra long lines, or additional resistance beyond the "ideal" or "balanced" figures will cause some sort of problems or foaming. There are only two side effects of extra long lines, a very slightly slower pour, and the ability to serve beer at a much wider variety of temperatures and carb levels without any issues. Since line resistance decreases exponentially as flow rate decreases, doubling your beer line length barely has a noticeable impact on how long it takes to fill a pint.

Most of what I've typed above is more applicable to traditional permanent serving systems. Getting enough resistance in those cases is imperative, as the serving pressure can't be changed without affecting the carbonation levels.

The calculators and such can be a very useful tool, but you have to know it's inherent limitations. If you like to keep your beer really cold and at moderate carb levels no matter what, then go ahead and use it. Just realize that the "ideal" and "balanced" result it gives you is the fastest a beer under those conditions can be poured without excessive foam (very important to a bar selling beer to pay the bills, but not a worry for me).

That's why I always add a few feet to those calculator results. To see this verified, add a 30 foot line to your 11psi keg, and it'll pour a beer just fine. It might take 5 seconds longer to fill a pint than a 10' line, but that's all.
 
I use a picnic tap. I've had two situations where the beer came out like crazy.
In one case it was at the beginning. I used a hose clamp to connect the line to the tap and it wasn't necessary (it caused the opening to be pinched open, causing beer to fly out).
In the second case I put some carb sugar in with the beer at transfer and added a little c02 to force out the oxygen in the tank. The result was a keg under so much pressure that it sent foam flying out the tap like a geyser inside down.

Hmm, I do have both of my lines connected to hose clamps. Maybe I could try removing them. I did order a new coupler, as this one is very old and cheap.

Also, Thanks MagicMatt for the well written post.
 
I tried pulling a pint again yesterday and there was a sound that sounded like the CO2 tank when it's equilibrating the pressure after you first tap a keg or when you bleed the headspace. I don't know if I remember it being that prominent before. There was mostly just air (CO2 I'm hoping) in the line for a good 2 seconds after pressing the picnic tap. That, of course, led to the already discussed fire hose like splurting of beer everywhere.
 
Just to update, the new coupler came in and it works perfectly now. I guess I will relegate that other one only to fill kegs with.
 

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