Keeping 20 gallons RO Water in Open Container?

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Gadjobrinus

Gadjobrinus

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Hi all,

I've seen related, but not quite this. I will have to buy RO. I'm likely going with a 75% dilution with city water. I'd like to keep a running stock of brewing water in 20 gallon increments, treated - which in this case means small amounts of gypsum, CaCl, depending on the ratio of RO to city water, and 10% hydrochloric acid, again, depending on the ratio.

I'll have to search, but another brewer on this site uses a food-grade plastic container, with an installed ball valve/spigot at the bottom.

My question is - if it's food grade plastic, any concerns about mold or other development? (I think I know the answer, just hoping not).

Thanks.
 
There should be no problem with open storage of RO. There is very little for any water-borne organism to survive on and since you'll be brewing with it, it will be appropriately sanitized during the boil. I would still cover your reservoir since dust can alter the water quality a bit.
 
Life is just incredibly durable. I shall never forget the bed of moss we found growing in the water cooler crock when we finally decided to look. RO water dissolves a bit of CO2 and there are organisms that can use this as their carbon source.

For a few days you should be fine but I find RO water that has been left standing for a couple of weeks (forgot to drain the HLT) has deposited a slime on the bottom.
 
ajdelange said:
Life is just incredibly durable. I shall never forget the bed of moss we found growing in the water cooler crock when we finally decided to look. RO water dissolves a bit of CO2 and there are organisms that can use this as their carbon source.

For a few days you should be fine but I find RO water that has been left standing for a couple of weeks (forgot to drain the HLT) has deposited a slime on the bottom.
Click to expand...

Yuck. And ^&%$##@%&. I'd hoped to have a reservoir of prepared water on hand. No other reason I suppose than it makes me feel closer to a brewery with a tremendous and ready water source.

Forgot to address: The CO2 generation and carbon consumption. Nature never ceases to amaze me.
 
I store my RO water untreated in a good grade garbage can. It's set up with a auto shut off so it's constantly refilling as needed. We just moved and I had to break everything down.

After one year in my garage the container/water was fine. Not a trace of anything. I was actually surprised at how clean everything was. I should add that I brew every three weeks and I use almost all of the water I have stored.

I suppose you could treat it all if you wanted to. I use different ratios of salts for different beers so I treat it in the kettles on brew day.
 
That's good to hear, Dcp. It's a float switch, then? That's pretty cool.

The only reason I'd treat it all is I emphasize bitters (though do enjoy porters and stouts, too, and will be brewing them) and because I brew in 12-15 gallon lengths, won't take me long to tap that. I'm just being weird. No reason to treat but the night before, or even brew day, really.

Edit: Do you happen to have the brand of your can? I've been looking but not really wanting to spend for the dedicated "water tanks" and such. Though am hopeful of finding a moderately priced one, with a spigot.
 
Thanks Dcp! I used to deal with a ton of online restaurant stores, don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks on the ball valve, too - I didn't know if the bulk head style would work on plastic, as it's flexible. Good to know.
 
Gadjobrinus said:
Thanks Dcp! I used to deal with a ton of online restaurant stores, don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks on the ball valve, too - I didn't know if the bulk head style would work on plastic, as it's flexible. Good to know.
Click to expand...



I'm gentle with that valve! The plastic is pretty thick at the bottom though. To be safe I found a couple of large stainless washers and I have one on each side of the can. That made it a bit more rigid and gave me a way to torc it enough to get a nice seal. I'm sure they had to beef it up a bit. We're pretty hard on garbage cans in the kitchen at work.
 
Gadjobrinus said:
Just realized, DCP - are you a chef? Former chef here....

Many thanks. Seems perfect.
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Yes, I did all the fun stuff from fine dining at Alinea and trotters to years at country clubs and some qsr stuff. I started a school food service company 5 years ago when I was starting to get old and swmbo wanted me around more. Kinda miss the rush of service but I really enjoy weekends off and time to brew.

I'm working on business plans for a brewery/tap room project. We're literally trying to decide if we should do food as well. We have a brew pub in town, one of the oldest in Illinois. The local mayor wants to protect them and is using the liquor lic as leverage. Politics and capitol are big issues in the brewing game.


Cheers Chef!
 
Wow - you've got a pedigree, my friend. I'd love to witness your cooking. Great talk I don't know how many years ago between Michael Ruhlman and Grant, at Steppenwolf.

Politics, yes!!! Fear and politics killed our brewery in Marquette, MI. Story for another time. Would have been the first packaging brewery in the area but some locals - i.e., brewpub - feared cannibalism of their trade (I structured any tasting to be minimal and closed during peak hours for other's business. A rising tide raises all boats, etc.).

And we were the first French place in that region, had a "special" liquor license issued after the War to outlying areas, to encourage trade. Shoot forward 70 years, and it's a piece of private property, to be bought and sold on the open market.

Erstwhile "partner's" only job was to obtain a license. Did nothing, until too late, and we bought the "special" at $96,000. When we went under and tried to sell, had a buyer at $99K, State wanted to block because they "didn't want any profiteering on the license."....

Anyway, enough whining. Nature intruded and attacked my CNS, progressive, systemic neuro, so cooking is done. But I've gotten to see my son grow up, something for which I am infinitely and eternally grateful.

I will eagerly follow your brewery thoughts. My wife would kill me if she sees this again but a rural, farmhouse brewery on the model of St. Peter's or others set like it....still dream of that. We'll see.

Good luck on whatever you do. I know you'll do well.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about your CNS problems, that's brutal stuff. I am very happy you have had time with you son. It's a blessing. I almost blew it with my kids but my wife saved me from myself. It's funny how life works.

Thank you for the good wishes. You recharged my batteries in a weird sort of way. I've been a bit complacent of late. I need to drive this project to completion.

I remember that piece at Steppenwolf. We all went to see a screening on a Monday night. I had a staige at Alinea shorty after it came out. Got the job and Grant got sick. I was only there for a short time. I only wanted to learn from Grant. Took a chef gig to pay the bills shortly after.

I can envision the rural farmhouse your talking about. It's such a sweet concept. Local honey, house made cheese, farm fresh veggies, cured ham with a nice farmhouse ale. Pretty sexy stuff!!!!

Peace my friend!

Don
 
Oh, nothing buddy. So many have worse. And I'm so with you - and I'm so glad for you - family first.

That's crazy timing on the Ruhlman-Grant thing! And I couldn't believe it when I read that Chef Achatz got sick, and like he did....it's a testament to him that not only did he survive, he thrived. Amazing. That must have been some kitchen, and I'm glad you were there. Is it true, some sign overhead, about being the best kitchen anywhere, world, something like that?

My wife was in the front of the house, worked high-end places. We're both proud of what we accomplished but glad to be out.

Rural brewery. Yeah, this outta do (OK, I've posted it before....just a bit of a romantic...)

Palmers%2BBrewery%2BBridport.jpg
 
FWIW: I make my own RO water, and put it in an Aquatainer. Sealed up in between uses.

I also keep a supply of RO water in distilled water jugs. Seems to work fine, but it's not open to the atmosphere.

And also FWIW: You can have your own RO setup if you can hook up a hose connector to a faucet, and setup of the RO system similar to mine, except on a stand. Then put it away when you're done. I've since installed mine permanently under the sink to open up space to work on the sink, but it always worked fine as shown below.

rosystem.jpg

newsetup6.jpg
 
That's pretty cool, Mongoose, I wasn't aware you could set up an RO system like that, and I'll explore, thanks.

The 20 gallon container is so I can have pre-treated water ready to go. But I'm just being weird. Nothing preventing me doing any treatment (right now, HCL, gypsum, touch of CaCl) even the morning of.
 
mongoose33 said:
FWIW: I make my own RO water, and put it in an Aquatainer. Sealed up in between uses.

I also keep a supply of RO water in distilled water jugs. Seems to work fine, but it's not open to the atmosphere.

And also FWIW: You can have your own RO setup if you can hook up a hose connector to a faucet, and setup of the RO system similar to mine, except on a stand. Then put it away when you're done. I've since installed mine permanently under the sink to open up space to work on the sink, but it always worked fine as shown below.

View attachment 416066

View attachment 416067
Click to expand...

You have already probably posted where you scored that RO system previously, but I am feeling lazy so... Where did you score that from?
 
Sbe2 said:
You have already probably posted where you scored that RO system previously, but I am feeling lazy so... Where did you score that from?
Click to expand...

I bought it from Buckeye Hydro. One of their people, Russ, posts here. He helped me determine what I wanted and needed and it was very easy to set up. He made sure I had the right connector on the supply line so I could connect it to my faucet.

I bought the 50 gallons-per-day system; kind of wish I'd gone for the 75. The actual output is dependent on a number of factors including pressure, the water source, temperature....it effectively does between 1.5 and 2.0 gallons per hour. Had I gone to a higher throughput...well, you can do the math. :)

If I need to upgrade or put in a second one, I'm going w/ B.H. again. Great service.
 
Definitely get your own RO system! Helped a friend find a nice unit on Amazon for around $130 including the pressure tank and faucet!
Its safer to "make" your water a day or 2 before you will use it. Storing RO water long term requires sterilization , using ozone, chlorine or other.
Look for a unit with a 50, 75,or 100gal per day membrane, so you can fill your reservoir fairly quickly. Spend a bit more for a Dow menbrane and it will last a long time. Even better get one with a built in TDS meter to monitor your water.
Be aware that an RO unit will waste about 4 gallons of reject water for every gallon of pure water. This is safe to capture and use on plants. I hate to see it just go down the drain. My ultimate plan is to route mine to my rainwater catch basins hooked up for garden irrigation.
Any food safe container will do, covered as previously mentioned.
Lastly DO invest in a float valve for the container if you are not filling it in a bathtub, sink, or outside. And attach the hoses with fittings or clamps. I have seen a lot of flooding from RO units where hoses fell out or inattention. I have worked with many of these in the aquarium world.
Brew on!
 
Also keep in mind that ro water will eat away at brass and other metallic fittings. Good to use stainless steel for anything that comes in contact with ro.
 
mongoose33 said:
I bought it from Buckeye Hydro. One of their people, Russ, posts here. He helped me determine what I wanted and needed and it was very easy to set up. He made sure I had the right connector on the supply line so I could connect it to my faucet.

I bought the 50 gallons-per-day system; kind of wish I'd gone for the 75. The actual output is dependent on a number of factors including pressure, the water source, temperature....it effectively does between 1.5 and 2.0 gallons per hour. Had I gone to a higher throughput...well, you can do the math. :)

If I need to upgrade or put in a second one, I'm going w/ B.H. again. Great service.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was going to guess buckeye hydro. I looked into it a few months ago, but with RO water at Wally world for .37 a gallon the numbers don't make sense. However, if I include the time in getting it and the convenience of having RO water at home. BLah blah blah... Just talking and typing. I may have to look into it again.
 
I use a 30 gal, blue, food grade barrel. Been using it for years. Every time I open it, it's perfectly clean in there. I'd like to seal it up better, but there's a small opening where a dip tube goes to the bottom so there's a small opening for things to settle in there. It's stored inside with minimal light that hits it. We drink that RO water so I'd hope I notice any off flavors...
 
H20ENG said:
Definitely get your own RO system! Helped a friend find a nice unit on Amazon for around $130 including the pressure tank and faucet!
Its safer to "make" your water a day or 2 before you will use it. Storing RO water long term requires sterilization , using ozone, chlorine or other.
Look for a unit with a 50, 75,or 100gal per day membrane, so you can fill your reservoir fairly quickly. Spend a bit more for a Dow menbrane and it will last a long time. Even better get one with a built in TDS meter to monitor your water.
Be aware that an RO unit will waste about 4 gallons of reject water for every gallon of pure water. This is safe to capture and use on plants. I hate to see it just go down the drain. My ultimate plan is to route mine to my rainwater catch basins hooked up for garden irrigation.
Any food safe container will do, covered as previously mentioned.
Lastly DO invest in a float valve for the container if you are not filling it in a bathtub, sink, or outside. And attach the hoses with fittings or clamps. I have seen a lot of flooding from RO units where hoses fell out or inattention. I have worked with many of these in the aquarium world.
Brew on!
Click to expand...

This is why my hobby gets expensive haha
 
I used to buy "Primo" bottled water, but have since bought an R.O. system from the local hardware store. It's stored under my kitchen sink, but I ran it to the pantry (about 15' away) so I can fill the Kurig without moving it. I now just fill the jugs and store them in the basement. It takes about 6 hours to fill a jug, and I place it in a plastic tote, in case I don't catch it right on time (which I never do!). They have a tight fitting lid, and I don't add anything to the water to stabilize it. Should I?? As a point of reference, I brew at least once per month, so the water does not sit any longer than a month.

20171002_124632.jpg


20171002_125006.jpg
 
Sbe2 said:
Thanks, I was going to guess buckeye hydro. I looked into it a few months ago, but with RO water at Wally world for .37 a gallon the numbers don't make sense. However, if I include the time in getting it and the convenience of having RO water at home. BLah blah blah... Just talking and typing. I may have to look into it again.
Click to expand...

I couldn't get it here at that price--I was at about 88 or 90 cents a gallon, so it wasn't hard to see the break-even point in the future.

Even at .37, I'm not sure I wouldn't have put the RO system in. No schlepping back and forth, having to plan on that as well as the rest of the brewing tasks.....
 
Thank you everyone for your help. I probably should have said it sooner. Our soon will be heading to college in - gulp, tears - less than 2 years, and after that all bets are off where my wife and I settle, so we rent. That cuts out the idea of any hard plumbing changes. I'll have to look at the above-counter option. Had seen some, I think, but I didn't know they really worked, to be honest, so thanks Mongoose. I'm sorry if I missed it - what system are you using?

Thanks, all.
 
Gadjobrinus said:
Thank you everyone for your help. I probably should have said it sooner. Our soon will be heading to college in - gulp, tears - less than 2 years, and after that all bets are off where my wife and I settle, so we rent. That cuts out the idea of any hard plumbing changes. I'll have to look at the above-counter option. Had seen some, I think, but I didn't know they really worked, to be honest, so thanks Mongoose. I'm sorry if I missed it - what system are you using?

Thanks, all.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you went past it. Bought mine from Buckeye Hydro. IMO, what makes that system perfect for someone who rents is that it's not permanently installed. As long as you have a faucet to which you can connect a garden hose, you can do it.

When I bought mine I had them add the connection for the faucet to the supply line of the filter, so all i had to do was screw it on. I hung mine on the wall, but it would have worked just as well if I'd made a small stand for it. When not in use, store in closet or under the sink. Heck, you could leave it under the sink and just bring the lines out.

I've since had mine placed under my sink and the supply line is plumbed directly into the water supply, and the waste line in its own drain stack. Why? I replaced the sink faucet and added a sprayer so I could use the sink at the same time i was making RO water.

So, if it were me, I'd PM the Buckeye Hydro people here--probably it's Russ--and tell him what you want. He didn't try to upsell me, just tried to get me what I wanted. Makes me want to go back and do business again next time.

BTW: I have the 50 gallon per day unit. For just a few dollars more (no Clint Eastwood here :)) I could have had a 75gpd or even a 100gpd unit. It would have cost something like $8 more to move up, and I chintzed out on it. My system produces about 1.5+ gallons per hour (depends on pressure, temp, water composition), which is fine--though I wish it was a bit faster. I will replace the filter cartridge with a larger capacity unit when I replace it.
 
Whoops, sorry I didn't mention it Mongoose, I did go back and saw the Buckeye, wasn't sure if there were different models. Thanks for this additional info, gives lots to work with. Sorry for being a cadet in the first place. Meds. I blame meds.
 
mongoose33 said:
I bought it from Buckeye Hydro. One of their people, Russ, posts here. He helped me determine what I wanted and needed and it was very easy to set up. He made sure I had the right connector on the supply line so I could connect it to my faucet.

I bought the 50 gallons-per-day system; kind of wish I'd gone for the 75. The actual output is dependent on a number of factors including pressure, the water source, temperature....it effectively does between 1.5 and 2.0 gallons per hour. Had I gone to a higher throughput...well, you can do the math. :)

If I need to upgrade or put in a second one, I'm going w/ B.H. again. Great service.
Click to expand...


What do you do with the "waste" water in the winter?. In the summer I would use it to water my hops, but wondering what I would do with 30 gallons of extra water.
 
I wouldn't use it for laundry as the TDS will be very high. Best to put it to drain if you can't put it on your plants.
 
Laundry can be a perfectly good use for the concentrate... depending upon how bad your feedwater is in the first place. For most "city water" using it for laundry will be fine. There was a period of about 15 years where all the concentrate from the RO unit at my house went into the top loading washing machine.

Russ
 
Buckeye_Hydro said:
Laundry can be a perfectly good use for the concentrate... depending upon how bad your feedwater is in the first place.
Click to expand...

I'm less than enthused for this reuse. Laundry detergents often have chelating substances in them because hard water makes it more difficult to get clothing clean. The chelators help remove that hardness. Using extra hard water is therefore not a good idea.

In addition, if the concentrate has much in the way of iron or manganese, the water will stain your clothing.

Think very long and hard before using concentrate in your laundry.
 
I let my RO waste water run outside onto the lawn. The grass seems to like it since that area is taller and greener than other parts of the lawn. Keep in mind the TDS of my source water is already low which means the discharged waste water has a low TDS too.
 
mabrungard said:
I'm less than enthused for this reuse. Laundry detergents often have chelating substances in them because hard water makes it more difficult to get clothing clean. The chelators help remove that hardness. Using extra hard water is therefore not a good idea.

In addition, if the concentrate has much in the way of iron or manganese, the water will stain your clothing.

Think very long and hard before using concentrate in your laundry.
Click to expand...

Right - if your source water is really lousy (e.g., high hardness, Fe, Mn) it would not be a good choice. For others, it should work just fine, in my opinion.
 

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