Just starting to appreciate saisons.

[calebgk]

For the past couple years, I've been all over the IPA. The more I brew, though, my tastes are expanding and becoming more refined. When I started appreciating good beer, I couldn't drink Belgians at all. At the time, it seemed like I couldn't deal with the carbonation. I'd be burping and farting for days!

Now, I am actively seeking them out (the beers, not the farts.) And I grab a saison whenever I see one. Dupont, Oast House, St Feuillien, Ommegang.

So, of course, now I'm wanting to brew my own. The past three years, I've been very happy with my PA, IPA, stout, kolsch, quad. Is there anything I should keep in mind that would differ from brewing these styles? Anything that specifically makes a saison pop? What about kegging vs. bottling? Carb volumes?

I appreciate your feedback.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Carb volumes are big and often overlooked. Usually people do the standard 4oz for all their beers and call it a day. This won't cut it for most Belgians and wheat beers (both German and American). Some Belgians, like Golden Strongs, need to be carbbed to around 4 vols. Definately a different beer if carbbed to the standard 2.5 vols. Saisons and Tripels call for around 3 vols. German hefes and american wheats should have some good carbonation to them as well.

On the other hand a lot of English beers are to style with lower carbonation. Same goes with some higher gravity beers.

Do a side by side and you can definitely see the difference.

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[jro238]

I started kegging last year and have never looked back. It is amazing to be able to brew a new beer and just screw with the carbonation until you are really happy with it.

 

[m1batt1]

Although yeast is Important in all beer with saisons the yeast is what makes the beer as far as flavor goes. And as opposed to ales where temperature control within a small range is critical saisons can have a much larger good temperature range. Furthermore the flavor profile changes with each yeast dependent on whether you ferment higher or lower. So definitely do some reading on the yeasts and what they do at what temperature.

 

[calebgk]

So what about kegging? I have a four tap fridge with a single regulator. I serve at about 8lbs after about a week or two, figuring around 2.5 volumes. Would you recommend a dual pressure regulator if I keg? I'm not opposed to bottling,as well.

 

[IL1kebeer]

A dual pressure reg would be good but you need to make sure your serving lines are the right length when you change up your pressure for different beers.

I have a manifold and 1 regulator so all my beers have to be carbbed the same in my draft system. For that reason I usually keep American styles in my kegs at around 2.3-2.5 vols. If I decide to do Belgians or anything with high carbonation then i'd probably bottle condition.


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[bloom_brewer]

ive never done a saison yet but everything ive been reading (of course will depend on yeast requirements) says to ferment them on the warm side and let the temp raise a degree or so with each day in primary.

 

[grahamfw]

I'd say it's much easier to go from kegging to bottles rather than the other way around. I keg all of my beer and bottle from it when I take some to parties, sporting events, tailgates, bocce, etc.

I'm becoming a bit obsessed with clear beer in my house, so I'm fining all of my beers with gelatin. It's amazing how differently you perceive a beer when its clear compared to cloudy. Try cold crashing your saison for a week or two. Then add a water/gelatin solution and mix well (should be plenty of write-ups on this in the forum).

Also, I believe the French Saison yeast has the best chance of clearing whereas the Belgian is a real b*tch to clear. Keep that in mind if you do want clarity.

The carb levels are definitely important. If you have a kegging setup, what are you doing to carb your beers? I tend to try to adjust my carbing slightly for each beer based on my baseline. I typically will do 30-32 PSI for 48 hours and check from there. You'll need more than that for a proper saison (unless it is already chilled when you hook it up to carb).

Keep in mind that with higher carb levels, line clarity will be fairly important. If you have gunk in your lines, you'll have a lot more foam and you may never get a good pour. Clean those lines and taps regularly!

 

[unionrdr]

I liked the spiced Red Sky at Night Saison. I like how the spices made that barnyard flavor/aroma seem a bit earthy instead. I'm thinking spicy German hops would do about the same. But 4 vco2 seems a bit high for bottles. I don't think I'd go above 3vco2 myself for bottling?...

 

[IL1kebeer]

I liked the spiced Red Sky at Night Saison. I like how the spices made that barnyard flavor/aroma seem a bit earthy instead. I'm thinking spicy German hops would do about the same. But 4 vco2 seems a bit high for bottles. I don't think I'd go above 3vco2 myself for bottling?...

Belgian bottles will hold 4 vols but that's a bit high for saisons anyway.

 

[unionrdr]

The Heavy Seas saison I referred to didn't seem to have a really high carbonation level. But it was a good carb level. Between 2.5 & 3.0 I'd think.

 

[ericbw]

Temperature is key. All the yeast by-products that you usually try to avoid - you want them. High 70s or even 80s.

Someone can correct me on this, but I think the yeast produces the most esters and phenols (the flavors and aromas you want this time) during reproduction, so that means that you want it hot at the beginning of fermentation when the yeast is reproducing. As a comparison, look at a dubbel and a saison with the same yeast. The dubbel might have a fruitiness and a little *je ne sais quoi* about it, but the saison has a strong aroma.

The yeast flavors and aromas are mostly what makes it saison instead of a wheat or a blonde ale.

 

[unionrdr]

Good point. The Wyeast 3711 is said to be good up to 77F. But reviews say 80 even works well with it. Looking at the tastybrew priming calculator,it gives carb levels for Belgian & French ale-Saison at 1.9-2.4 vco2. I was thinking more like 2.5-2.8?

 

[NuclearRich]

I would say that kegging is going to be a little tricky on a system that has several lines, without a dual pressure regulator. Its kind of an expensive investment, but now that you are starting to diversify your palate, you will want different carb levels.
As others have said, it is a key component to a saison to be bright and bubbly. In regular 12oz bottles, I would do 2.8vols. Some people trust them at higher levels. Instead of fearing the bottle bomb, I use belgian bottles and cork/cage them. It adds a certain degree of aesthetics as well. In there, 3 or a little above 3vols is probably what I aim for IIRC.

The yeast will tolerate, and actually perform better under higher temps than you are used to. I dont like to start hot, as you risk fusels doing so, but definitely start warmer than I'm used to with other ales. 72F to start, after a week, start ramping the temps up. Certain strains will actually stall if you dont get them hot - like 80s.

As far as clarity... I wouldnt obsess over it, particularly in a style that isnt meant to be super clear. A starchy haze is expected in a saison.

If you can get saison d'erpe-mere by De Glazen Toren, I would highly recommend it. Delicious.

 

[bolus14]

I have made a couple Saisons and outside of ferm temp and carb level another important aspect, if you're doing all grain, is the mash temp. You want it to be dry so you want to mash lower.
I would also say that I would prefer to bottle all Belgians. It's great how you can see how much the bottle conditioning changes them, drink some and lay some down for 3 months, a few more for 6 months, and few for a year. With Saisons some of the "barnyard" taste mellows and other yeast and hop flavors show as it ages. It really is a unique style and is one that very much lends itself to playing with ferm temps, different hops, and aging.

One recipe that I have made a couple times now is Saison Furtif from these boards, all that have tried it have liked it:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/bbd-saison-furtif-155009/
Another that is kind of my recipe, bits and pieces take from multiple sources for the malt bill and the hops I came up with is here. I mashed a little high on accident so it's a little sweet but has a good citrus zest taste combined with good Saison spiciness. I don't think it's the best use of El Dorado hops but a couple of my IPA loving friends like it a lot and some of my other dark beer and malt lovers like it as well.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/el-dorado-motueka-saison-459174/

 

[beergolf]

Looking at the tastybrew priming calculator,it gives carb levels for Belgian & French ale-Saison at 1.9-2.4 vco2. I was thinking more like 2.5-2.8?

That is not correct. more like 3 or even higher is appropriate for a saison.

From the BJCP style guidelines.

Mouthfeel: Light to medium body. Alcohol level can be medium to medium-high, though the warming character is low to medium. No hot alcohol or solventy character. Very high carbonation with an effervescent quality. There is enough prickly acidity on the tongue to balance the very dry finish. A low to moderate tart character may be present but should be refreshing and not to the point of puckering

 

[unionrdr]

I'd just like to know I'm not going to get exploding bottle from over carbonating. 3 vco2 would be about as high as I'd dare go with the average 12oz bottles.

 

[calebgk]

This is all gold! Thanks guys. I had actually just hit my LHBS on Saturday, and on a whim, picked up 3711. This will have to be next, once I sort out my chamber so I can keep it that hot.

 

[ericbw]

I bet if it is dry, then 3 vol would still be bright and effervescent. But that is probably pushing it for regular (or old, very used) bottles.

 

[bolus14]

I have made 7 or 8 different belgians; saisons, dubbels, tripels, and blondes. All with some slightly different carb levels but right around 3, some a touch below around 2.8 and some a little above like 3.2 or 3.3 and have yet to have a bomb.

I have a couple cases of bottles from my initial brewing kit and about 7 or 8 cases that are just re-used store bought bottles, Sam Adams, Troegs, Ommegang, Unibroue, Victory, Left hand, Magic Hat, etc.

 

[Cider123]

I like some things about siasons but correct for those things I don't like. I like funk, but not too much. So I use 3711 but stay close to 70F so not too warm.

I don't like high ABV beers so I brew what some call a Petite siason, which is in the 1.040-1.050 range.

I rarely carb above the 2 range cause I like it spritzy but don't like the burn you get from highly carbed beers.

If this interests you, check out the recipes in the Northern Brewer recipe list. They have a great petite siason and a new one that is a cross with a wheat ale (Wheaten siason or something like that, my next summer beer attempt)

 

[Texconsinite]

I just got into Saisons as well, brewing my first one now (besides NB petit saison kit, which i found to be just ok). The Saison Furtif thread is money, used it to formulate my extract batch. 3711 is what i used too, and boy does that stuff go!! My batch quietly went from 1.067 to 1.006 after 2 wks in primary. So quietly i didnt even see bubbles in airlock, so check SG, don't freak out like i did.

Give it time and it will ferment low to get that dryness saisons are known for. Mine fermented at 79, ambient temp for top of fridge. I didnt add any spices or sugar to it, figuring i'll do that in subsequent batches and use this as a base for comparison (mix with spices in glass as test for future flavors), but seems like staying to style is very easy w saisons, and you can put all kinds of weird ingredients in them. Ive seen star anise, ginger, black pepper, as well as various fruits and the more typical orange peel and coriander.

Good luck, let us know what you try for yours!

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,I'd like to keep abreast of these as well. After finally having tried one with spices light to medium on the back,i find them rather enjoyable. I was thinking of the NB petite saison d'ete E/SG kit just to give it a shot with the 3711 yeast. But I'd like to use German noble hops in it.

 

[Texconsinite]

I made the petit Saison kit last year just because it was on sale at local NB store, didn't know what a Saison was. Not really impressed with how it turned out.


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[ericbw]

I made the petit Saison kit last year just because it was on sale at local NB store, didn't know what a Saison was. Not really impressed with how it turned out.


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Then you probably made it right! It's a little pukey, with a bit of an herby note.

 

[calebgk]

I'm about to bottle this saison. Brewed it to 1.054, and after a week, added 1 lbs sugar solution to each fermenter. 3711 took this down to 1.000! Fermed at around 78F for 3 weeks, and have been storing it in a cold room for the last 2 weeks now. Tastes funky and awesome! Hope to bottle this weekend.

 

[unionrdr]

The petite saison de' ete' is finishing up fermenting now. Got up to 77F,the upper range of the 3711 yeast. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. Their OG 1.041 came out to 1.044 here.