JoshuaW's eBrewsupply Build!

[JoshuaW]

I have been exchanging emails with Ryan from eBrewsupply to work out a custom control panel, and Ben from Spike's Brewing to get some custom welds on kettles. So far this is where Im at:

Panel

• 50 AMP 240v Input
• 15 AMP 120v Input
• BCS 462
• 2 240v Outputs to power HLT/BK
• 1 120v/240v Switchable Output to power RIMS Tube
• 3 120v Outputs to power pumps and accessories

This is my version of "Go Big or Go Home". I wanted to be able to power EVERYTHING at once, should it be needed. It probably is a little overboard. The only way we could accomplish this was by using an extra 120v input to cover the RIMS tube. I cant run the RIMS on 240v while the other two elements are going, but that shouldnt be an issue. Im planning on only using the RIMS on 240v when I need on demand hot water anyways. This system will work perfect for back to back batches, as I can run the BK, heat the HLT, and maintain mash temp. Im only going to be running two pumps to start, but this leaves me flexibility for more later on. Im also using the BCS 462 so that I can control fermentation temps in the future.

While it was a fairly insignificant amount to have the panel built by Ryan, Im planning on assembling it myself. He is going to send me every last piece and some solid diagrams, and Im going to suffer through this. Im fairly comfortable with certain DIY tasks, but I havent done much electrical, and I think its time I learn! As a safety measure, I will be posting pictures here and probably having an electrician look over it.

Kettles

• MLT - Spikes 10 gallon with a 3pc ball valve, and two ports. One port will be used for the BCS temp probe, the other will be a standard dial thermometer.
• HLT - Spikes 10 gallon with a 3pc ball valve, sight glass, and a single port for monitoring temperature through the BCS. A 1.5" triclamp is also being added for use with Brewhardware's 5500w all stainless element kit
• BK - Spikes 15 gallon with a 3pc ball valve, sight glass, and a single port for monitoring temperature through the BCS. A 1.5" triclamp is also being added for use with Brewhardware's 5500w all stainless element kit

Im hoping my choice of kettles will allow me to make the occasional 10 gallon batch (smaller beers) for parties and events, something I do maybe a couple times a year. The rest of the time this will be strictly 5-6 gallon batches, which the 10 gallon kettles should have no problem keeping up with.

Elements/Pumps/Etc

• 1 Brewhardware RIMS Tube
• 3 Brewhardware 5500w Stainless Elements
• 2 Brewhardware Triclamp Element Assemblies
• 2 Center Inlet Chugger Pumps
• 2 Add a Pump Kits
• 3 Dip tubes
• 1 Weldless Recirculation Kit
• 1 Weldless Whirlpool
• 1 60" Stainless Table
• And of course as many camlock QDs as needed!

Its going to take a couple weeks for me to get started assembling anything, probably wont be placing orders for another week or so. I have the garage all setup, but Im trying to convince the wife to let me build in the laundry room, because the garage is FREEZING in the winter. Im not having much luck, but we will see. She did say I can setup the table in there to work on the panel, that way it isnt all over the kitchen table. Current strategy will be to just start building in there and see if she makes me move it. If she doesnt, then I will go ahead and move the 50amp from the garage...

What do you guys think? Anything I should look at adding or changing?

 

[JoshuaW]

Here is a screenshot from the list I have been putting together. The items in yellow are getting ordered tomorrow or Friday with the appropriate shipping speed to arrive on/before the 26th so I can begin work on my holiday time off. The remaining items will be ordered in a week or two after I get my Christmas bonus. Im expecting the kettles to take a few weeks anyways. The plan will be to build the panel on top of the stainless table, then get the RIMS tube and plate chiller mounted to the table.

If anyone is interested in my spreadsheet, let me know and I will email you a Dropbox link. I have a listing of all the hardware connections needed for each kettle, links to every product Im buying, etc. Might be a good resource if someone is interested in doing a similar build.

 

[part16john]

I will be following this. I am in the process of building out my e brewery as well and have verything in a spreadsheet just like yours. I still flip flop between PID and BCS. What made you go with BCS vs. PID?

 

[JoshuaW]

I will be following this. I am in the process of building out my e brewery as well and have verything in a spreadsheet just like yours. I still flip flop between PID and BCS. What made you go with BCS vs. PID?

To be honest, Im kind of a gear nerd, so adding a level of complexity (and control) to it was appealing. I also figure by the time you buy PIDs, you arent spending that much more for the basic BCS-460. Ultimately I hope to add temp controlled conicals to the mix, and maybe switch my keezer to BCS controlled. It should be possible to control all of that from the BCS, even items in other rooms! (like the keezer).

Aside from that, Im hoping to narrow my process and streamline my brewday. Input my numbers into the BCS a day or two before, fill up the HLT the night before, and be able to wake up and start the process from my phone. Have the BCS buzz me when the strike water is warm, mash in, have the BCS buzz me when the mash is done, sparge, have the BCS buzz me when the BK is about 208, then buzz me each time hops need to be added.

I also hope to spot problems or room for improvements in my process by using the data logging. It will be interesting to go back and be able to see the mash temperature vs the temperature coming out of the RIMS tube, or maybe see a log of the fermentation temperature over time.

 

[part16john]

Thanks for the response that is helpful. When you talk about controlling other things like conical, keezer etc. Are those plugging into your panel for power so it can cycle it on and off based the probe readings? Right now I pretty much plan to continue brewing single infusion brews but I like having the tools there in case I want to expand. Trying somewhat future proof so I don't have to upgrade or change things down the road.

 

[JoshuaW]

Thanks for the response that is helpful. When you talk about controlling other things like conical, keezer etc. Are those plugging into your panel for power so it can cycle it on and off based the probe readings? Right now I pretty much plan to continue brewing single infusion brews but I like having the tools there in case I want to expand. Trying somewhat future proof so I don't have to upgrade or change things down the road.

You could probably do this with a PID as well, it just makes less sense. You can actually run CAT5 cable to a remote thermoprobe and SSR (SSR would get its AC power from an outlet closer to its physical location). The CAT5 adds virtually no resistance, so the probe is still accurate, and the CAT5 is perfectly capable of carrying the low voltage signal sent from the BCS 460 to the SSR. So if essentially you can have it control any other similar device, regardless of where it is in your house.

 

[FoCobrewguy]

Definitely interested in seeing this done. I hope to do something like this but a little larger once the funds come around. I will save my questions until you post more. Keep the progress coming.

 

[JoshuaW]

Kettles are ordered, Ben from Spike Brewing is saying about 2 weeks on those.

Panel kit is ordered, it sounds like Ryan from ebrewsupply will have that to me in time for my day off on Friday.

The tools, table, label maker, zip ties, etc are all ordered from Amazon and have started arriving. I did get a notification from UPS saying that the volt/amp meters were being delayed. I'm guessing they have been lost or damaged...

None of the stuff from Brewhardware got ordered. I mistakenly thought they took Paypal and intended to pay for everything with my PayPal balance. I was wrong. I have to wait on PayPal to move money to my bank account, which unfortunately means I won't get to do anything with that over my long weekend. Probably not a big deal, because the panel will probably take me all weekend anyways.

Addition: I decided to add the BCS PID displays. I noticed brewershardware.com had them in stock, so I went for it. I bought four of them for something like $170 with shipping, and an opportunity to ruin my precut stainless enclosure with my Dremel! I will use this to quickly check my mash temp and monitor cooling on the output of the plate chiller.

 

[part16john]

I was thinking of mounting a monitor near the control panel to be able to see temps quickly. I'm curious about the PIDs.

 

[JoshuaW]

I was thinking of mounting a monitor near the control panel to be able to see temps quickly. I'm curious about the PIDs.

http://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-7-Segment-LED-PID-Style-Display.html

That is what I ordered. I did four, probably will do my MLT, RIMS Out, HLT, BK, assuming I can program the BCS to change one of the displays to my plate chiller output when I get to that point. If I have to keep all of my displays static the entire time, then I will drop the RIMS Out to include my plate chiller.

 

[part16john]

Those are cool and I like how it's built in. Heres is what I was thinking, a touch screen(21in or bigger) next to the panel to monitor temps? Use a mini comp running win 8.1, laptop or tablet. What are the cons to this set up?

 

[JoshuaW]

Cost is the biggest thing. Couple hundred bucks for the PC, hundred or two for the monitor. I was kind of thinking about maybe a Raspberry Pi and a monitor, that might be a little cheaper.

 

[jcc4507fly]

Cost is the biggest thing. Couple hundred bucks for the PC, hundred or two for the monitor. I was kind of thinking about maybe a Raspberry Pi and a monitor, that might be a little cheaper.

Every application I've used the RasPi for I've been disappointed with its performance. It is quite sluggish.

 

[part16john]

I did some more research and found this.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IGM5F7M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Use an articulating arm mount next to the panel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O1UYHG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[JoshuaW]

All of my Amazon stuff has been delivered, including those pesky volt/amp meters that had a delay. All of my other orders have been shipped, except the Brewershardware stuff (and the kettles from Spikes, those have a two week lead time). I still need to order about $450 worth of stuff from Brewhardware as well, then I should have everything. I did get my first order with them placed, and they shipped it about 15 minutes ago, so fingers crossed that I will still receive it this weekend.

Ryan from eBrewsupply has gone above and beyond in both providing me a fair price, and a ton of customer service. Between doing the custom design for my panel, bending to my every whim, AND managing to get it shipped in time for my vacation, Im very impressed. With the shipment notice I received a list of parts. Over 70 unique components, weighing over 75lbs! I went ahead and matched everything with the website and came out with a total of $1771, he quoted me $1837. I find this amazing, since the following items are included with the kit, but are NOT included in that $1771 total:

Custom Design of the panel
Custom Cutting of the stainless enclosure
20ft of 18 gauge THHN wire
20ft of 14 gauge THHN wire
15ft of 10 gauge THHN wire
120ft of 14 gauge THHN wire
25ft of 10 gauge THHN wire
25ft of 10 gauge THHN wire (red)

There are also a couple other goodies not on the list that we discussed that Im confident he included as well. This is definitely more than the $60 difference between the quote and what I priced on his site. Sure, Im sure some of these parts could be sourced separately elsewhere, but there is a lot of value in having your panel designed by someone who knows what they are doing, cut by someone who knows what they are doing, and the headaches that saves!

I also want to point this out, Ryan gave me a specific quote. He seems like a fair dude, and Im sure if you reach out he will give you a similar deal, however this quote was given to ME at a certain time. If you ask him in three months, he probably cant give you an identical deal, just because inventory levels change, prices go up, etc. This is just to provide you with a baseline on what my system is costing.

Thats all I have for now! I will start taking some pictures as I put together my brew table (worktable for building the panel and start wiring everything.

 

[part16john]

Great news about ebrewsupply. I have sent a couple questions and Ryan has been fast to respond. Can't wait to see some pics.

 

[JoshuaW]

Here is an update of some of the things I got done over the long weekend. For starters, virtually everything is ordered. Pumps, electrical parts, the works. Just about everything but the pumps and kettles have arrived too! Everything arrived mostly as expecting, including some awesome eBrewSupply swag that I had requested! I have had a couple small problems so far, but nothing that couldnt be resolved.

Ryan had my panel handcut and it was kind of a rush job, so some of the cuts were sloppy. No big deal, they all get covered up by buttons, outlets, etc. Well, some of the screw holes are equally sloppy... I have had to redrill one spot, and for ALL of the outlets I had to buy a tap and retap them, after confirming with Ryan that they had been tapped with the wrong size. Its only a minor annoyance though, and Im sure it wouldnt have happened if the panel had gone through the regular cutting process (which I think he said is done via CNC). I also had a couple parts that were not on my parts checklist, which is 100% understandable since I have a non-standard build. Those parts have already been shipped out to me, and should arrive on Friday. Thankfully they arent hanging up my build at all, as I am moving at a slow and methodical pace.

Im expecting to receive my knockout tomorrow, so I can finish cutting the extra holes in my panel. Im adding some additional input buttons, an extra LED so that I have the option of having the alarm go off or just displaying an LED, and adding a 120v power indicator LED that was intended to be part of the original build, but got left out.

Last but not least, and I failed to get a picture of it, but I do have my PID displays! I need to see if I can find someone to make a bezel for it though, so I am waiting to cut up my panel until that is taken care of so I dont have a gaping hole in the meantime. Im wondering about 3D printing for it? If anyone is interested in helping, I would be very grateful!

 

[mliptack]

Looks awesome!

 

[bbohanon]

Ryan and ebrewsupply are top notch..I am also in the process of building my e-brewery with their 30amp pid diy kit and I have been taking my time with it. It's not hard, just very time consuming to layout, cut holes, wire up, etc.
Looks good so far and sounds like you are on track with it though!

 

[JoshuaW]

Yeah, I went the cheater route and had most of my holes cut for me I have a couple to add, but no big deal. I'm laying out the interior of my panel tonight, hopefully I can actually start wiring tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[newtstampede]

Following, I just ordered mine and want to see how yours turns out.

 

[decoleur]

This is moving along very nicely!

I would love to see both your ordersheet and what you do with those LCD plates. I still haven't found the design that I want to run with, PID or BCS, or Rasberry Pi. My thought with PIDs vs BCS is that you have to add more SSRs to support the pumps and also manage more heat sinks. How did you approach that?

Thanks in Advance!

 

[JoshuaW]

This is moving along very nicely!

I would love to see both your ordersheet and what you do with those LCD plates. I still haven't found the design that I want to run with, PID or BCS, or Rasberry Pi. My thought with PIDs vs BCS is that you have to add more SSRs to support the pumps and also manage more heat sinks. How did you approach that?

Thanks in Advance!

I have quite a large enclosure, so my heat sink on the top was large enough to accommodate all seven SSRs. I altered my low amp ones between my element ones to distribute heat a bit better. I still have room to stick probably another four SSRs on DIN mounted heat sinks, but I don't see a scenario where I would need that many.

I really hope I can find someone to help me with the frame for the displays, it's bugging the crap out of me!

Last but not least, I will get an updated screenshot of my order sheet shortly. If you want a copy with all the links and stuff, shoot me a PM.

 

[JoshuaW]

Some progress from New Year's Eve and New Year's Day! Not much, just drilled the pilot holes for my extra LEDs, switches, and input buttons. I need to get a new drill bit to do the hole for the knockout punch, because mine got destroyed, so I will pick that up on lunch so I can finish punching those holes. I also went ahead and drilled and threaded the screw hole for my 240v inlet that was screwed up, since I had the drill out.

Next, I sketched out the spot I need to cut to get my amp/volt meter placed, as well as where I want to put the BCS 7 Segment displays, when I find someone who can design me a bezel (again, anyone do 3D design? I can 3D print it at the library).

Lastly, I have my terminal blocks all setup, my contractors laid out, and my breakers laid out. Since I mounted the SSRs a few days ago, I should be clear to start wiring this weekend!

 

[JoshuaW]

Looking at it while making this post, I realized I will probably move the terminal blocks to top so that they are close to the SSRs, that way I'm not running from the blocks low in the enclosure, to the SSRs high in the enclosure, to the contractors low in the enclosure, to the elements.

 

[mliptack]

I'll have to send you an image of my 7-segment displays so you can see the bezel I had laser cut. If I remember I'll try to get one sent tomorrow.

 

[JoshuaW]

I'll have to send you an image of my 7-segment displays so you can see the bezel I had laser cut. If I remember I'll try to get one sent tomorrow.

That would be awesome! Did you get yours from Brewershardware, or the old manufacturer?

 

[mliptack]

That would be awesome! Did you get yours from Brewershardware, or the old manufacturer?

Neither, had one custom fabricated locally at an acrylic shop.

I can send you the flat file or solidworks file if you want it. Almost any shop that works with acrylic will have a laser cutter and can cut it for you.

This one was $20. I didn't have the screw holes cut (I drilled them in place) because I knew my layout of the panel was not 100% accurate.

The last image I uploaded was the start of it all, I had the brewtroller LCD mounted in this panel, the black bezel that I bought with it was the same outer dimensions as the LCD, so when I had it placed, I had about 1/16" on either side that I could see into the panel. So I had the clear acrylic cut 1/4" larger all the way around, with concentric radii on the corners for aesthetics. Now that the Brewtroller LCD is gone, this serves as my window into my panel.

Cheers!
Max