Wouldn't it be hilarious if all they actually used was London III?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Who wants to speculate more. Latest video is brewing on the old system. around 4:15 they make a point to highlight their "secret sauce" addition. Is it just salts? mystery chemicals? literally nothing and they're trolling? You decide.
Thoroughly appreciate everyone's efforts on this.
Trying to put everything that people have had success with all together, as well as a lot of other things I've read, as my countless efforts have varied dramatically from getting very close (one time) to not even remotely close, there's just no easy way to control the yeasts. Every batch has been so different. The only logical solution is to take that WB06 variable out, and blend.
My game plan is to LODO mash at 154F, 5.2pH (2-Row, Carafoam, and a touch of Vienna), (maybe do a step mash as I was very impressed with that fluffy head that someone posted a while ago) mash out 168F, add l-leucine, reduce pH to under 5 after boil (may help stress the yeast, as well as not get that twang from S04 that someone mentioned was a good solution). I also just listened to a podcast how a lower pH after the mash smooths and subdues the hop bitterness and helps create a softer rounder more crushable result. So going to try that. Then water treatment using KCL to increase the mouthfeel, 150-50 ratio. Aiming for FG of 1.016, and 4.5pH after dry hop. 40% of the hops will be whirlpooled at 170F for 20min (50% Apollo and 50% Citra). Then quickly cooled via counter flow chiller through a hop rocket with a little more (10%) Citra hops.
I'll do a semi split batch, main batch will be a pack of S04, and 0.5g of T-58 at 72F (no oxygenation, no trub), then gradually drop to 64F after I wake up the next morning (1 degree every 2 hours). The second batch will be 0.75-1 gallon in a 3.5gal keg (+ blowoff), with WB06, fermented warm (72F) to bring out as much bubble gum juicy fruit esters as I can.
I'll pitch the WB06 into the mini keg once the main batch is close to FG. Krausen the WB06 batch, Im assuming it will take 1-2 days, which will also be at the peak of ester formation, transfer into the main batch, along with dry hops (Citra T-45s and T-90s), some sugar, and 2g of CBC-1 (hopefully kill the WB06). Before I add the WB06 batch I'll do a quick 1 day crash of the main batch, harvest+dump the S04 yeast out, then raise it to 68ish before adding the mini batch, DH + CBC.
Purge when I drop the hops, and again 30min later once the pellets' have saturated and released any trapped O2. Cap my unitank to naturally carbonate, slow rise it to 70 after a day. Rouse the hops once at 24hrs, then dump the dropped hops 24-48 hours later after taste testing. Let it carbonate / condition for a week before cold crashing. May DH in the keg (more Citra and or Mosaic/Simcoe depending on taste tests, we'll see how it goes.
Does anyone see any blatantly flawed thoughts, or feedback on any of these things that have definitely not worked for them that I should consider tweaking?
Who wants to speculate more. Latest video is brewing on the old system. around 4:15 they make a point to highlight their "secret sauce" addition. Is it just salts? mystery chemicals? literally nothing and they're trolling? You decide.
Nicely spotted and converted.View attachment 813464
Looks like anhydrous calcium chloride (bottom layer) and gypsum (top layer)
Total volume is ~2 liters
Maybe 75% anhydrous calcium chloride and 25% gypsum
1.5 liters anhydrous calcium chloride * 2.15 grams per cubic centimeter (g/cm³) = 3,225 grams
0.5 liters gypsum * 2.3 grams per cubic centimeter (g/cm³) = 1,150 grams
60 bbl batch size + sparge volume ~2,400 gallons
SO4: ~70
Cl: ~170
Ca: ~125
If ~2/3 anhydrous calcium chloride (2,867 grams) and ~1/3 gypsum (1,533 grams)
SO4: ~94
Cl: ~152
Ca: ~124
Take it with a grain of salt, don't @me
Yeah and what does 5% Carafoam does?, nothing.. you got to have 15 if not 20% for it to have some effect, also I’m sure he uses Crystal 60 for Julius as you can see in the old Julius and even in the King and jjJ versions that deep darker reddish color. What about water profile sulfate-chloride ratio?, if ‘IPA doesn’t have to be hard’ why not share mineral additions..
Funny thing is, I don’t even like their house flavor anymore. It muddles up any hop combo they do. Can’t distinguish most of their stuff.Wouldn't it be hilarious if all they actually used was London III?
Cheers!
107 pages in, I can't remember. was la3 ever analysed and compared?Wouldn't it be hilarious if all they actually used was London III?
Cheers!
I have the exact same problem. They all taste the same just some have more alcohol taste. Maybe my palate isn’t refined enough? I actually prefer their pale ales these days, and they cost less!Funny thing is, I don’t even like their house flavor anymore. It muddles up any hop combo they do. Can’t distinguish most of their stuff.
And the list to choose from is getting ridiculous. It’s like it’s all the same beer, but different names.
Give me HF anyday
Probably 4 to 5 grams of ascorbic acid. Everyone knows that s#!t is a game changer.Who wants to speculate more. Latest video is brewing on the old system. around 4:15 they make a point to highlight their "secret sauce" addition. Is it just salts? mystery chemicals? literally nothing and they're trolling?
Agreed, using the equipment video as reference it seems that anything around 1-3% (i.e Crystal 60 example) is done by hand, anything above that but below 30% is probably supersacks and anything in the 60% and above is based on grain silo.Funny that you mention this -
View attachment 813509
The left is Carafoam, the right 2-Row
Might want to try >25% Carafoam on a future batch
Nate mentions in the video they had to buy supersacks for a while when there where stocking problems.Agreed, using the equipment video as reference it seems that anything around 1-3% (i.e Crystal 60 example) is done by hand, anything above that but below 30% is probably supersacks and anything in the 60% and above is based on grain silo.
As for the secret sauce it looks like a soup of white powders with probably some ascorbic acid, calcium chloride, calcium sulfate and magnesium chloride or magnesium sulfate.. the interesting observation is that it was not added to the water during prep but directly on top of the grain itself after strike. Probably emulating what’s done with big commercial batches.
I’ve also noticed that their beers last a long time in cans better than most IPAs out there so + to any stabilizing or oxygen scavenging chemistry into that sauce.. will not be surprised if some of that sauce (or a variation of that sauce) is added during brightening or at the time of packaging as well.
No I believe he said at some point in those videos that they dry hop the same way they did when they were homebrewing, this is just a scaled up version of how they homebrewed, they take a massive hit on efficiency, utilization and loss, but he doesn't care about that stuff, its all about providing the best product and outcome as possible. That's what impresses me about Nate, money doesnt matter, its all about the absolute best quality without compromise.Did anyone notice if they used a hop back in the large scale equipment tour video? I don't recall if they used on there or in the recent homebrew video?
That's what impresses me about Nate, money doesnt matter
I mean 15 bucks a 4 pack is cheap. So many places I try and end up dumping the beer and wasting money. I can confidently say I have never dumped a TH beer. They are the most consistent beers out there and their price point is spot on or lower than any other brewery. To me 91 bucks for a case of Julius is below average for cost of craft beer.Ok, I really do appreciate TH beers and all, but their consumer base probably does care about money, and Julius is already near $100 a case with MA sales taxes...
Cheers!
Half the price? Where are you getting hazies for $7.50 a 4 pack? Serious questionI appreciate some folks are high-end beer drinkers who can scoff at TH pricing, but people can buy a case of very good to excellent hazies for half that price elsewhere. If corporate growth matters their pricing isn't going to help much...
Cheers!
Fiddlehead is hit or miss. Not worth it to me. And you buy it from a gas station or packie you’re running the risk of when it was bottled/can and then leaving it out in the warm store for months.Prime example: $10 a six pack/$20 a 12 pack for Fiddlehead here, a very good hazy. And there are others...
Cheers!
I tested 1318 at one point, you can see on page 2 I think that it’s labeled (pic is gone). Was not a match.107 pages in, I can't remember. was la3 ever analysed and compared?
Edit*
I searched but didnt find any analysis of LA3
anhydrous calcium chloride and gypsum...top secret
KcL could be a solution, thats what I'm going to try on my upcoming batch rather than CaCL. Ive seen various levels of success on this thread, some love it, some not so much, Im looking forward to trying it for myself.If one was to take the recipe from the video to try and brew that beer...is there some general knowledge of what Treehouse targets for a water profile? (Sorry if that has been discussed already in this thread). Sulfate heavy? Chloride heavy? Balanced? What about the level of Calcium or Sodium?
I pulled the following values from this article: Ward Labs Mineral Analysis of Tree House Julius (Again). Do you think Tree House actually pushes Sulfate up near 100? In order for me to hit those levels of Chloride and Sulfate, I would have to push my Calcium up to ~150 ppm (using Gypsum and Calcium Chloride additions).
Calcium, Ca ppm 89 - 100
Magnesium, Mg ppm 4 - 6
Sodium, Na ppm 10 - 11
Chloride, Cl ppm 175 - 220
Sulfate, SO4 ppm 100 - 134
Would the be a fairly decent water profile? (which I can get with 7g Calcium Chloride and 2g Gypsum)
Ca: 111.4 ppm, Mg: 7.0 ppm, Na: 25.0 ppm, SO4: 68.3 ppm, Cl: 155.8 ppm
If one was to take the recipe from the video to try and brew that beer...is there some general knowledge of what Treehouse targets for a water profile? (Sorry if that has been discussed already in this thread). Sulfate heavy? Chloride heavy? Balanced? What about the level of Calcium or Sodium?
I pulled the following values from this article: Ward Labs Mineral Analysis of Tree House Julius (Again). Do you think Tree House actually pushes Sulfate up near 100? In order for me to hit those levels of Chloride and Sulfate, I would have to push my Calcium up to ~150 ppm (using Gypsum and Calcium Chloride additions).
Calcium, Ca ppm 89 - 100
Magnesium, Mg ppm 4 - 6
Sodium, Na ppm 10 - 11
Chloride, Cl ppm 175 - 220
Sulfate, SO4 ppm 100 - 134
Would the be a fairly decent water profile? (which I can get with 7g Calcium Chloride and 2g Gypsum)
Ca: 111.4 ppm, Mg: 7.0 ppm, Na: 25.0 ppm, SO4: 68.3 ppm, Cl: 155.8 ppm
That Ward Labs analysis is post fermentation and from a finished beer. Mineral levels change drastically during fermentation. You can't predict what the mash water profile is from the analysis of a finished beer.View attachment 814149
So found an article after doing some deeper research into KCL, before my next attempt. There has to be more to Nates "Secret Sauce" than the typical additions. Based on their high potassium levels from the Ward Labs analysis, maybe they are in fact using KCL, rather than NaCL or CaCL, to keep their sodium and calcium low but keep the body, flavor and hop character high. Possibly that excess of potassium is also stressing the yeast. So under pitching, Low O2, and high K, might have the added stress benefit to their crazy esters.
Would that slightly sour flavor also possibly be what people are picking up from what they think is the S04, or maybe its just amplifying the "tartness" of that yeast?
I get that, but their potassium levels seem higher than others, to me that means KCL vs what others might be doing. That's what we are trying to figure out here, its what and how are they doing it differentlyThat Ward Labs analysis is post fermentation and from a finished beer. Mineral levels change drastically during fermentation. You can't predict what the mash water profile is from the analysis of a finished beer.
I get that, but their potassium levels seem higher than others, to me that means KCL vs what others might be doing. That's what we are trying to figure out here, its what and how are they doing it differently
From which book is that?View attachment 814149
So found an article after doing some deeper research into KCL, before my next attempt. There has to be more to Nates "Secret Sauce" than the typical additions. Based on their high potassium levels from the Ward Labs analysis, maybe they are in fact using KCL, rather than NaCL or CaCL, to keep their sodium and calcium low but keep the body, flavor and hop character high. Possibly that excess of potassium is also stressing the yeast. So under pitching, Low O2, and high K, might have the added stress benefit to their crazy esters.
Would that slightly sour flavor also possibly be what people are picking up from what they think is the S04, or maybe its just amplifying the "tartness" of that yeast?
It was online, I'll have to find it again, I was just researching KCL and found that articleFrom which book is that?
I've tested alot with Kcl, didnt find any improvement. In higher quantities it leaves a harsh bitter on the end of the pallet.
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