Is this possible?

[The_Glue]

I tasted that well known papery aftertaste in an IPA during bottling after 2-3 weeks of primary. I doubt I can screw up primary fermentation that much, I mean I this would be a new low even for me.

But here's something else: for the first time ever I tried reusing spent dryhops as bittering hops in this beer. I had some frozen dryhops from a previous IPA in the freezer. They spent 3 months there. I added all of them at 60 min in the boil.
The wort did not tasted papery. Is it possible the cardboardy taste comes from them?

 

[madscientist451]

A papery taste is usually attributed to an oxidation problem, but it could be something else.
Did you do anything when the wort was hot that would have added Oxygen to it?
I've never tried reusing dryhops, but its an interesting idea.

 

[Braufessor]

I don't think it is possible to cause oxidation pre-fermentation.... at least not very easily. However, I have never heard of anyone reusing "used" hops..... that would absolutely be my first thought in regard to whatever flavor you are getting. Using old/oxidized/bad hops could certainly lead to some level of off flavor/poor flavor in a beer. To me, used hops that were in the freezer for 3 months would probably qualify as old/oxidized/bad hops.

Maybe I have missed something and people do this successfully. I just have never heard of it, and it strikes me as suspect #1 in diagnosing your flavor issue.

 

[hunter_le five]

Sounds like you may have oxidized the finished beer at some point.

 

[The_Glue]

A papery taste is usually attributed to an oxidation problem, but it could be something else.
Did you do anything when the wort was hot that would have added Oxygen to it?
I've never tried reusing dryhops, but its an interesting idea.

I splashed my sparge water harder than usual due to a new process but I think it is established by now that hot side aeration is a myth.

 

[The_Glue]

I don't think it is possible to cause oxidation pre-fermentation.... at least not very easily. However, I have never heard of anyone reusing "used" hops..... that would absolutely be my first thought in regard to whatever flavor you are getting. Using old/oxidized/bad hops could certainly lead to some level of off flavor/poor flavor in a beer. To me, used hops that were in the freezer for 3 months would probably qualify as old/oxidized/bad hops.

Maybe I have missed something and people do this successfully. I just have never heard of it, and it strikes me as suspect #1 in diagnosing your flavor issue.

It worth a google search, some people had success with it, the idea behind the process is that at fermentation temps the alpha acids won't isomerize or leave the hops you dryhop your beer with so they can be still reused for bittering in a later brewday.

Also I heard that some people age their hops for some Belgian styles and they still don't get off tastes.

 

[The_Glue]

Sounds like you may have oxidized the finished beer at some point.

It is not impossible though after pitching yeast I opened the bucket only once for adding the dryhops (without bag). Also i have seen posts here that it takes 6 weeks for oxydation to show up. On the other hand I've seen posts here where people complained about browned and oxydized beer right in the primary, it is interesting.

 

[joshesmusica]

hot-side aeration (oxidation) isn't a myth. that one actually has science behind it. it's just that a lot of homebrewers aren't keeping beers around long enough for it to have any effect. can take up to six months to present itself.

i would also be a little wary of the hops. what measures did you take to make sure they weren't oxidized?

also are you sure you didn't just ferment in a cardboard bucket?

 

[Calder]

Reusing barrel hops was a common practice a couple of hundred years ago. Doesn't sound like a good practice to me.

 

[Crazybrew04]

I tasted that well known papery aftertaste in an IPA during bottling after 2-3 weeks of primary. I doubt I can screw up primary fermentation that much, I mean I this would be a new low even for me.

But here's something else: for the first time ever I tried reusing spent dryhops as bittering hops in this beer. I had some frozen dryhops from a previous IPA in the freezer. They spent 3 months there. I added all of them at 60 min in the boil.
The wort did not tasted papery. Is it possible the cardboardy taste comes from them?

Many people add oxygen to the primary to help fermentation. I doubt it oxidized. How were your dryhops stored. Did you vacuum seal them? My guess is you threw some freezer burned hops in your brew.

 

[doug293cz]

hot-side aeration (oxidation) isn't a myth. that one actually has science behind it. it's just that a lot of homebrewers aren't keeping beers around long enough for it to have any effect. can take up to six months to present itself.

References please. My understanding is that oxidation from bad packaging technique shows up sooner than 6 mos. Why would HSA oxidation take longer to manifest itself?

Brew on

 

[The_Glue]

Many people add oxygen to the primary to help fermentation. I doubt it oxidized. How were your dryhops stored. Did you vacuum seal them? My guess is you threw some freezer burned hops in your brew.

My dryhops were stored in the freezer in the original vacuum package.

Maybe I tasted something else? I should probably report back in the thread in 3-4 weeks after the beer bottlecarbed.

 

[joshesmusica]

References please. My understanding is that oxidation from bad packaging technique shows up sooner than 6 mos. Why would HSA oxidation take longer to manifest itself?

Brew on

stronger bonds. i'm not trying to argue that the OP probably has HSA. not trying to argue at all even. it's a non-issue for probably nearly every homebrewer. yes the homebrewer should definitely be much more concerned about aeration after fermentation. in fact, at the homebrew level it would be "almost" impossible to create HSA. most people at the homebrew scale won't even dedicate the amount of time it would take to even test it (aging two exact beers for at least 6 months).

my point was simply that it's not a myth. but even personally, i don't try my hardest to avoid HSA. when cooling i start stirring vigorously at the beginning of chilling, because of my ghetto method of doing it.

along with everyone else, i'm agreeing that it's probably something to do with the hops. but now after the OP has even commented again, i'm wondering if it's still too green to tell.

 

[djturner]

As I understand, you used spent hops that were used in s previous batch as dry hops. After using they were frozen for three months.

My bet is they weren't "re-vacuum packed" and you're tasting freezer burnt hops.

 

[The_Glue]

As I understand, you used spent hops that were used in s previous batch as dry hops. After using they were frozen for three months.

My bet is they weren't "re-vacuum packed" and you're tasting freezer burnt hops.

I froze my hops totally wet, like they were dripping beer.
They spent like 3 months in the freezer.
Did that screwed them up?