Is this going to work? Batch Sparging? and How does this porter sound?

[boochuckles]

Is this going to work for a MLT? It drains water fine and only leaves a small amount of dead space. So is this drain going to work like i think it is when I put the grain in there?

When it comes to batch sparging I need to figure out the water needed for the grain, the pre-boil amount, and the dead space in the MLT. Then as an example 10# of grain would get 1.25-1.5qt/# meaning 12.5-15qts (3.125-3.75 gallons(3.5gallons just for easy numbers)). The a 6.5 gallon pre-boil (I only have a 7 gallon pot) and say 0.5 gallon dead space. 6.5+3.5+0.5=10.5 gallons. Now with that I water I want to mash and then sparge or 2 sparges? Not sure, this is where the confusion starts for me. Do i just Mash the grains in 3.5 gallons of water, or is it half the total amount? Then whatever water is left from said equation split that and wash twice? Or if it just mash in half the water, then drain and wash with the second half? I know there is no "proper" way to do this, just what works for you, but the starting amount of water and washing is what confuses me.

And lastly, Brew Club's style of the month is Porter for our next meeting. Reading about porters I believe I want to do a brown porter. I want to get a nice balance of chocolate and caramel flavors from the malt (chocolate malt and crystal 40), I want to try to get some mint in there from Norther Brewer hops, and I'd like to try adding some anise. I'm thinking like a nice licorice porter shooting for around 6% at what i'm saying 65% eff since it going to be the first time with this equipment.

10# 2 Row
0.75# Chocolate
0.75# Crystal 40L

1oz Northern Brewer 60min
0.5oz NB 15min

Thinking White Labs London WLP013 (I'm not sure what a good porter yeast is and what the LHBS is going to have)

7-14 days primary
7 days secondary "dry hopped" 0.5-1oz Star Anise

Keg and Imbibe

Should I add the anise in the secondary or is that something that should be in the boil? Is there anything else to add to the grain bill? It seems ok to me, but I've never made a Porter

Many thanks for thoughts, wisdom and advice to come

 

[JLeuck64]

Think I can help you out with calculating the batch sparge amount. There is some really simple math you can do (with just a little bit of tweaking due to your own equipment) that can help you pull the max amount of sugars from your grain bill.

Shoot for about a 50/50 split from your first run and second run combined to get your pre-boil volume.

If your grain bill adds up to 10 lbs let's crunch the numbers for 1.5qts/lb of grain it looks like this:

10 lbs of grain X 1.5qts/lb of grain = 15 qts of H2O. Divide that by 4 and you get 3.75 gal. Your grain will absorb it's weight in water... water weighs about 8.3 lbs/gal so if you divide 10 by 8.3 you get 1.20 gal lost to grain absorption. Simply subtract this number from the 3.75 gal and you will net about 2.55 gal net from you first running. So... from here this will give you an idea about how much water you need to heat up to batch sparge with. If you are shooting for lets say a 6.5 gal pre-boil volume you would need to sparge with about 3.95 gal of water. (the water used for batch sparging won't get absorbed by the grains so the total pretty much goes straight though, not counting dead space here.)

2.55 gal net 1st running versus 3.95 gal 2nd running is not close to a 50/50 split (which is what I like to shoot for) so let's try a different ratio of water for mashing in.

10lbs X 1.75 = 17.5 qts. divided by 4 = 4.375 gal - 1.2 (loss to grain absorption) = 3.175 net 1st running. You could batch sparge with another 3.325 gal and be pretty darn close to a 6.5 gal pre-boil volume.

I should also say that you really need to have a good handle on how much volume you lose during the boil. This loss is what you are ultimately trying to over shoot with your pre-boil volume. So if you lose 1.0 gal per hour of boil then you do need to target a 6.5 gal pre-boil volume. (me personally... I like to shoot for a 6.75 gal pre-boil volume because I like to let the hot break go for like 15 min before I actually start the boil timer.)

I use this technique all the time and after crunching the numbers for 1.5/1.75/2.0 qts per pound of grain you will see a relationship that will help you determine how much water to mash with. Depending on grain absorption and dead space in your mash tun and your boil off rate you can easily determine how much water to sparge with. Shoot for that 50/50 split and all of a sudden you efficiency will shoot way up ( ;

One other thing you can think of here... is the temperature of the water you sparge with. Most recipes will suggest sparging with 170F water. I think they are assuming fly sparging. When we batch sparge I think you should actually use hotter water. While the 1st running is draining the grain bed will cool significantly. Check the temp of the grain bed after pouring in the sparge water. Shoot for about a 165F temp after stirring in. You may notice that it might take upwards of 190F sparge water to get the grain bed to rise to 165F, just saying this from my own experience. I drain my mash tun over 45 min to 60 min. After switching to AG I've noticed I keep increasing the temp of water used for sparging from 170 to 180 to 185 and even to 190 depending on how many lbs of grain are in the recipe I am brewing.

Keep good notes, the next time you brew this recipe again it will be a piece of cake!

 

[boochuckles]

Thanks for the tips. I just ended up doing a 4 gal/4 gal split and it seemed to work fine. I had to add some water in the middle of the mash because the temp was getting to low. How much it was idk i should have paid more attention. i just poured off what I thought was about the same from the second 4 gallons.

The grain bill ended up being 11# because the LHBS guy said throw a pound of brown in there and you'll hit your style color better.

8# 2-row
1.5# Crystal 40
1# brown
0.5 chocolate

everything else was the same except 2.5 whole star anise at 10 min

I set my calculator for 65% and it said an OG of 1.051 and I got 1.052 post boil. I'm pretty sure I didn't take the pre-boil SG correctly. I got a reading of 1.021 but I took that from right from the second sparge so i don't think that was right. After sparging I ended up with about 6.3 gallons and after boil just about right at 5 gallons. So for now I'm going with a 1.3 boiloff

So I think I might have drained the MLT too quickly? Would that affect efficiency? I think I need to do something else with the drain tube also it kept getting pulled around when I was stirring.

Overall I think I had a good brew day and learned some useful things about my system. Thanks for your help JL

 

[doug293cz]

With batch sparge, draining quickly does not impact efficiency, so drain as fast as your tun will go (without over compacting the grain bed and having drainage problems.)

Also, you don't have to use hot sparge water. Kai Troester has shown that there is no efficiency difference between a hot and cold water sparge, if your starch to sugar conversion is essentially 100% complete at the end of your mash. Using hot sparge water will decrease the time it takes to get to boil.

Brew on

 

[boochuckles]

Good to know, thanks Doug.

How would I know if I were having draining issues? It would slow down or just stop? And if stop then what? Close the drain, clear the clog, let it settle and voldemort again?

I thought about it and I forgot to get some iodine to check conversion... I learn many things this brew day...

 

[doug293cz]

Good to know, thanks Doug.

How would I know if I were having draining issues? It would slow down or just stop? And if stop then what? Close the drain, clear the clog, let it settle and voldemort again?

I thought about it and I forgot to get some iodine to check conversion... I learn many things this brew day...

Yes, the flow would slow significantly or stop. To clear it, you should try stirring the bed. If that doesn't work, blowing into a tube on the drain sometimes helps. Don't try blowing directly into the drain, as the wort is hot. When using a tube, keep the free end of the tube above the top of the MLT. If you have CO2 or an air compressor available, you can use it to blow into the drain, but not more than a couple of PSI, or you may have a different kind of mess to deal with. After clearing, you can vorlauf again to reset the grain bed. If it sticks near the end of one of the run offs, you may need to add some sparge water to thin the bed up a little so it will flow.

With some experience, you will learn how fast you can drain your MLT without having issues.

Brew on

 

[boochuckles]

I opened it full and it worked like a champ. However it could have been beginners luck...