Is this cO2 cylinder I found on let go safe and a good deal?

[Gunshowgreg]

Well after I really screwed up and accidnetly added potassium sorbate to my chocholate oatmeal coffee stout I realize that maybe legging and force carbonation of my beer would be the best thing for it since I dont want to waste the beer (if you know of a way I can reverse this screw up it be appreciated [emoji2] )

I'm doing research looking for kegs and stuff to get started and not drop a ton of money and I was on Let Go this guy is selling a CO2 cylinder for 25$ he used it for welding and got it from a welding company. my questions are....

1. Is this safe for beer?

2. Is this a good deal in terms of price

3. Is it over kill for what I'm doing?

Thanks in advance

 

[GoeHaarden]

Should be safe for beer. However, I'd ask when the last pressure test was done. It'll be stamped on the tank, and should have been within the last 5 years. Otherwise, places won't fill it.

It's a great deal. Makes me wonder though. Did he get it through an exchange program, where he made a small deposit and would exchange them when empty. If that's the case then he might not truly own it...

Not overkill. You will just fill it less often.

 

[IslandLizard]

It's a great price!
Chances are it needs to be recertified ("hydro tested") if it's been over 5 years since the last date stamp, as @GoeHaarden said.

Many of the larger places that exchange may not even charge you for the recertification (~$30), so call around and ask first.
Also, get prices on exchange/refills, they may vary widely.

Is there a company's sticker or engraving on it somewhere? That would mean it's their tank, and only worth their current deposit price. But most places will exchange, or fill if still in date, no questions asked.

 

[IslandLizard]

Per pound, larger tanks are more economical in use. But heavier if you need to schlepp them around the house or take them places (say, to pour beer).

To serve a kegerator or keezer and purge kegs and fermenters they're fine.
20# lasts a long time as long as you got no leak anywhere.

I have a 20# and a 15#.

 

[madscientist451]

$25 for a 20 lb tank is a decent price. My Co2 supplier doesn't fill, only does exchanges and doesn't care about the date stamped on the tank.
Check around with your local suppliers to find out how they do things.​

Buying the 20 lb Co2 is about 1/3 less per pound than the the 10lb price, so 20 lb tanks are the best for me.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Sweet this is all good information. What do yall pay for your CO2 when getting filled or exchanged. I know prices vary but um just curious. I'm gonna ask the seller about the recertificarion date.

I accidently added that potassium sorbate to that coffee stout. Is there anything besides legging that I can do to fix it?

 

[IslandLizard]

$30 for 20# refill or exchange. I've been exchanging the past few years at my local Praxair.
FWIW, the Praxair tanks have a "beverage grade" sticker on them.

Now from what I gather, all CO2 is the same. It's the lineage, the paperwork, that makes the difference apparently.
That's why Medical O2 can run 10x or more the price of welder's O2. Guess what grade I use? Right!
I yet have to use it for welding or cutting, and maybe I will, it's been too long.

 

[IslandLizard]

I accidently added that potassium sorbate to that coffee stout. Is there anything besides legging that I can do to fix it?

You could pitch new yeast together with your priming sugar then bottle the lot. But since the yeast can't reproduce anymore due to the sorbate, you'll need to add enough yeast cells so it can digest the sugar and carbonate your beer properly.

Maybe making a 2 liter starter, or a very small batch of beer, with US-05 (dry yeast) and pitch that at high krausen with your priming sugar into your bottling bucket. You may get somewhat more sediment in your bottles from the extra yeast. It will sink.

 

[Bilsch]

It's not always the case that the CO2 from your gas supplier is the same purity regardless of the grade marking. Some suppliers will, for economic reasons, only have one bulk tank since it is less trouble for them to buy and store the higher grade and use that for everything. What comes from ethanol production is usually the highest grade and the closer you are to the corn belt the more likely it is your supplier will use that as his single source. But CO2 also comes from other industrial processes that do not generate as pure of gas and so may be cheaper for your bulk gas company to buy, store and sell for it's lower grades. Industrial CO2 is allowed to contain many things you just don't wan't in your beer. And unfortunately if your buying that grade you will never know what your getting. Don't expect any better specs then are advertised.
Oxygen on the other hand, since it's all made the same way, will generally be the same gas sold as either medical, aviators breathing oxygen or welding. The only difference being how they treat the compressed gas cylinders before refilling.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

I asked the seller about the date. He told me the last date he can see is 2003

Idk how bad that is or if it will cause me problems getting it filled.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

You could pitch new yeast together with your priming sugar then bottle the lot. But since the yeast can't reproduce anymore due to the sorbate, you'll need to add enough yeast cells so it can digest the sugar and carbonate your beer properly.

Maybe making a 2 liter starter, or a very small batch of beer, with US-05 (dry yeast) and pitch that at high krausen with your priming sugar into your bottling bucket. You may get somewhat more sediment in your bottles from the extra yeast. It will sink.

Do you really think that could work? Like the sorbate wont hinder a new yeast addition?

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you really think that could work? Like the sorbate wont hinder a new yeast addition?

From what I understand the sorbate coats the yeast cells and inhibits budding, so it can't create new cells. Basically it's become sterile, propagation wise.
Existing cells can still metabolize sugar as can new yeast additions. So if you have enough cells to metabolize the priming sugar it should carbonate the beer.
That's why I'd add a new dose of active yeast to make sure there are enough cells to do the job.

Your beer is finished otherwise, right?

I got the information from some simple web searches <sorbate and beer>, like this one:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/potassium-sorbate-question.551501/

 

[IslandLizard]

I asked the seller about the date. He told me the last date he can see is 2003

Idk how bad that is or if it will cause me problems getting it filled.

Nothing bad, just out of date, so best is to get it exchanged for a full one, and preferably with no extra testing charge. That's why you need to call around.
Some homebrew shops fill, but be warned, they tend to be really, really expensive, charging like $3 a pound. OK for that small 2.5 or 5 pound tank, but making a killing on you with a 20#-er.

Look in "yellow pages" for CO2 or gasses.
Mine is mainly a welding supplier, that's why I was surprised to find that "Beverage Quality" sticker on the exchange tank. That tank was a year past date, no charge.

Also try to get an aluminum tank for your aluminum trade-in. So much lighter and better looking than steel.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

From what I understand the sorbate coats the yeast cells and inhibits budding, so it can't create new cells. Basically it's become sterile, propagation wise.
Existing cells can still metabolize sugar as can new yeast additions. So if you have enough cells to metabolize the priming sugar it should carbonate the beer.
That's why I'd add a new dose of active yeast to make sure there are enough cells to do the job.

Your beer is finished otherwise, right?

I got the information from some simple web searches <sorbate and beer>, like this one:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/potassium-sorbate-question.551501/

Yeah its finished. I planned on bottling it yesterday afternoon. But accidently poured it into the wrong fermenter. (I got 3 differnt brews going now)I thought I had pulled out the wine one but I was greatly mistaken.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah its finished. I planned on bottling it yesterday afternoon. But accidently poured it into the wrong fermenter. (I got 3 differnt brews going now)I thought I had pulled out the wine one but I was greatly mistaken.

Jeez, what a misstep! I guess you realized it right after you had poured it in... as always. I do use a lot of blue tape (well, it's green now) for labeling.

I do think the method of adding extra "bottling yeast," as I outlined previously, should work and carbonate correctly. There's not a ton of sugar that needs fermenting. You could test it out with an 8-16 oz sample, add some sugar, and see if the gravity drops again after a few days. Keep it warm.

Maybe this is your lousy excuse or just the needed push to get into kegging.
Yes, you'll need extra equipment, such as a kegs, CO2 tank, regulator, hoses, disonnects, taps, keezer/kegerator, etc. But kegging saves a lot of time over bottling, I never regretted making the switch.
In a pinch you can use picnic taps.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Maybe this is your lousy excuse or just the needed push to get into kegging.
Yes, you'll need extra equipment, such as a kegs, CO2 tank, regulator, hoses, disonnects, taps, keezer/kegerator, etc. But kegging saves a lot of time over bottling, I never regretted making the switch.
In a pinch you can use picnic taps.

Yeah it almost seems like I did it on purpose to get my wife to be ok with me getting a keg system. She doesn't want me to waste the beer. I'll probably use the picnic tap that comes with the one from Northern brewer. The keg kit that comes with everything besides the co2 tank. Its $99 free shipping.midwest supplies has them also for 15% off any single item. Same price Idk if that's a good deal or if I should start just buying things piece by piece.

Also the guy says the cylinder he is selling is aluminum and he has never taken the valve off the cylinder. I called a place that says they can do a service on it and inspect it for 26$ and fill the cylinder for about 22$ it's a welding place if I'm not mistaken. So for about 75$ that's what the keg would be.

It really sucks. I honestly dont want to shell out the money just yet on keg stuff. I'm actually gonna hold out on getting a fridge because someone said they might be able to get one from someone that could possibly give it away. Just not ready yet. From what I have researched on this forum I can actually carbonate at room temp with co2 and then later on chill it. I might use ice to do so. I have guys I work with that like to pitch in on the batches after I'm done bottling. I do the math with the ingredient cost and divide it. They usually end up pitching in for about $5 a 6 pack. If I decide to keg thing batch in guess they can fill up growlers on fridays after work and crush them the next day or that evening before it goes flat.

Is there anything else I should be concerned with in regards to the CO2 tank?

 

[IslandLizard]

I honestly dont want to shell out the money just yet on keg stuff.

I hear you. If time is on your side you can round things up over time, piecemealing.

You can buy used ball lock kegs for $30-40.
New kegs $75.
Regulators go on sale all the time.
CL, HBT classifieds, friends, brewclub, there are many good resources.

Re: NB / MW Supplies. They're owned by ABInBev (Budweiser) if that makes a difference to you.

For a good setup, you should buy the pieces you want, not buying a kit. Having the luxury of time to do research and source the pieces is a benefit.
Nothing I ever bought because I had to, was the best deal.

I think I offered the short term solution with a fresh high krausen yeast pitch along with your priming sugar to get the batch bottled.

The tank does not need to be "serviced" or looked at. It needs to be hydrotested. Yes, the valve needs to be removed for that, but that's the beginning of the process.

Find a place that will swap it for you for a $25-30 "exchange?" no questions asked? It's not that the tank is a beater from pre-WWII.
$22 for a fill is pretty decent though. Keep them in mind.

$25 for a good out of date aluminum tank is very good! As long as it isn't owned by someone else.

 

[Gunshowgreg]

I hear you. If time is on your side you can round things up over time, piecemealing.

You can buy used ball lock kegs for $30-40.
New kegs $75.
Regulators go on sale all the time.
CL, HBT classifieds, friends, brewclub, there are many good resources.

Re: NB / MW Supplies. They're owned by ABInBev (Budweiser) if that makes a difference to you.

For a good setup, you should buy the pieces you want, not buying a kit. Having the luxury of time to do research and source the pieces is a benefit.
Nothing I ever bought because I had to, was the best deal.

I think I offered the short term solution with a fresh high krausen yeast pitch along with your priming sugar to get the batch bottled.

The tank does not need to be "serviced" or looked at. It needs to be hydrotested. Yes, the valve needs to be removed for that, but that's the beginning of the process.

Find a place that will swap it for you for a $25-30 "exchange?" no questions asked? It's not that the tank is a beater from pre-WWII.
$22 for a fill is pretty decent though. Keep them in mind.

$25 for a good out of date aluminum tank is very good! As long as it isn't owned by someone else.

Dude I might try the pitch with safale 5 and build a starter with it. Like you mentioned.

 

[bracconiere]

@IslandLizard i don't remember so many tags under your name before...did you get promoted? lol

 

[IslandLizard]

New corny keg can be had for $75-95.
Torpedo kegs from MoreBeer are very popular and well made and reviewed. $95 for 5 gallon.

A dual body regulator gives you more freedom than a single as you can dial in 2 separate pressures.
You can leave the kegerator kegs hooked up to the first while purging other kegs from the 2nd. Or force carbonating one while dispensing others at regular pressure. Etc.

Kegerator or keezer design and build takes some planning.

 

[IslandLizard]

@IslandLizard i don't remember so many tags under your name before...did you get promoted? lol

Nothing new really. I've been a lifetime supporter for over 5 years, then when I joined the mod team last year that tag had disappeared. It suddenly returned last night... to my surprise.

 

[bracconiere]

Nothing new really. I've been a lifetime supporter for over 5 years, then when I joined the mod team last year that tag had disappeared. It suddenly returned last night... to my surprise.

not to mention you also are now a staff member!

(i've been thinking of dropping $200 on lifetime, just so people see it in the "this guy was so stupid" threads! if i get bored, lol)

 

[Gunshowgreg]

Well guys I thought id update you on my stupid situation i got myself into. I went to the brew shop today to get some safale 05 and some DME. I told the owner and the guy that works there with then what I had done and they were very kind enough to let me bring my fermenter to them tomorrow and that they would let me keg and leave it there to carbonate. They even said they had a bottling gun they could use to bottle it and take it home. And another great part is they said they wouldn't charge me either. I'll however give them money for CO2 however but with a nice gester like that how could I not? I'll go this Friday to keg it with them and next week sometime I'll probably get it bottled if all goes well. And I'll probably brew another beer this weekend too. But heres to good people [emoji482]

 

[schematix]

i should have dropped the $125 on lifetime 10 years ago. i'd be way ahead of the game now.