Is the Saison craze out of hand?

CornyKegs 728
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I remember the Coors craze.................. I'd say we've come a long way...............
 
Owly055 said:
I remember the Coors craze.................. I'd say we've come a long way...............
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I remember when it was one of the few things on the shelf. I don't think we should make the comparison of a bewery founded in 1873 that turned its self into a billion dollar business to the trends of the craft beer scene.
A long way from what? The lack of selection years ago? Beer is no better because of selection if that's what you mean. There are many mediocre beers on the shelf these days that are surviving because of the craft is better mentality. When you can start home brewing and six months later your looking at financing for a "Artisanal ales" brewery that should say something about the state of the
Industry.
 
Is the Saison craze out of hand?

I think not, I routinely look past them in search of something else. Barely notice them anymore. But then, I am not a fan. Not even of the Dupont version.
 
With nothing else to drink, I can imagine the Flemish field workers were thinking exactly the same thing 2 hundred years ago.


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Is the Saison craze out of hand?

I think not, I routinely look past them in search of something else. Barely notice them anymore. But then, I am not a fan. Not even of the Dupont version.
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Psylocide said:
I just dumped the remaining 3 gal of my whiskey oaked rye saison after reading this thread.

Wasn't aware that I was being so trendy, albeit inadvertently.

Won't happen again. Guess I'll go brew an IPA.
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Maybe a hard root beer. I heard there really popular right now.
 
socounty said:
Just got back from Shelton bros. craft festival in St Petersburg poured my self a double simcoe clone and began to wonder what I had just taken part of. Honestly I didn't imagine the saison craze had gotten this intense. Every brewery represented it seems had at least one saison barrel aged in something, if not two, if not all of there samples they offered. Of course I'm exaggerating a tad but still it's bewildering to think that the craft industry has become such a fad oriented business. I realize through reading and other things that brewing has always been this way someone comes up with something excellent and different then all else follow until the next trend comes along. I guess after just answering my own question my real question is with all the knowledge, info on brewing, history, etc... Can't we leave well enough alone. Some breweries have the knack for the saison, some ipa's, some stouts, some this some that and so on. What happened to perfecting a select beer style making it your own. It just seemed over the entire weekend that everyone had the same idea that was just not executed very well at all.
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Because they're in business, not brewing as a hobby? There are market shares to be had and they want them. You're asking why a business doesn't opt to stay out of a potential market because someone else already does it well...
 
IrregularPulse said:
Because they're in business, not brewing as a hobby? There are market shares to be had and they want them. You're asking why a business doesn't opt to stay out of a potential market because someone else already does it well...
Click to expand...

Wait, are you saying that a brewery, as a business, has a responsibility toward profitability to make popular products, protect their interests legally, and sometimes make lucrative business deals with larger companies of similar interest?

Shocking!
 
IrregularPulse said:
Because they're in business, not brewing as a hobby? There are market shares to be had and they want them. You're asking why a business doesn't opt to stay out of a potential market because someone else already does it well...
Click to expand...

Yeah well it all tastes the same and they suck. Now "not your fathers" that's classic Americana.
 
There's lots of breweries that specialize and do well. I do think if you're making typical stuff then sure, you need to have your hip IPAs, wheat, stout. But you can get by fine with just having brett beers, just having belgians, just germans, just sours, etc.
 
clone63 said:
There are no 'crazes' in Ontario. The LCBO stocks within it's shelf space (few) and you can get the odd item direct from a local brewery. Almost all non-macro beers are pale/light/golden/lager something, maybe amber... The odd stout, wheat, belgian, a few IPA's and saisons only in summer, basically. Pretty much it. Not really sure if Canadian micros are that boring or afraid to put out a product that may not sell well.
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Another thing about LCBO is the selection varies heavily store-to-store.

In my area, I'm pretty sure I've never once seen a saison in the craft section. I would welcome a new craze--almost anything--to steal a bit of shelf space back from the f$#king IPA/APA glut.
 
iijakii said:
Anyone try that "Not Your Father's Rootbeer" that is popping up? Ive heard bad things so far.
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It sells like crazy here. I tried one. I couldn't finish it. It tasted like root beer but something about it made me dump it. Maybe it was the sweetness.
 
MaddBaggins said:
It sells like crazy here. I tried one. I couldn't finish it. It tasted like root beer but something about it made me dump it. Maybe it was the sweetness.
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Seems like it's basically a malt liquor on par with the other fizzy sugary alcopops.
 
Back on topic Shelton Brothers does a lot of importing from Belgium. Check out their website. I think that bringing sours, saison and the like to market are part of their thing. I would expect their events to be no different.
 
didinho said:
esters are more various, with different fruity notes, clove is more subtle and the aroma profile is more elegant. also in the flavour you get more variety and all the fruity notes give a sensation of freshness and sweetness that seem impossible for such a dry beer.
hope you can find a well stocked bottle, here in Europe is easy to have it!
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Sounds delightful, hope I find it!
 
I think this thread needs a poll. Does this forum software support this as it looks to be phpbb?
I'm definitely on the side of no it isn't out of hand and any beer that has a style guideline so loose I'm all for.
 
socounty said:
Just got back from Shelton bros. craft festival in St Petersburg poured my self a double simcoe clone and began to wonder what I had just taken part of. Honestly I didn't imagine the saison craze had gotten this intense. Every brewery represented it seems had at least one saison barrel aged in something, if not two, if not all of there samples they offered.
Click to expand...

People are sheep. Baaaa-baaaa. Some of us are better than that. :D

Personally, I love almost every beer style and I would get bored brewing and drinking the same styles all the time. Same reason I only brew 1.7 gallons at a time (or maybe 3 gallons but then split the base mash and use different ingredients) -- variety.
 
clone63 said:
There are no 'crazes' in Ontario. The LCBO stocks within it's shelf space (few) and you can get the odd item direct from a local brewery. Almost all non-macro beers are pale/light/golden/lager something, maybe amber... The odd stout, wheat, belgian, a few IPA's and saisons only in summer, basically. Pretty much it. Not really sure if Canadian micros are that boring or afraid to put out a product that may not sell well.
Click to expand...

I sure found that out recently. You Canucks must be really driven to homebrew and not purchase commercial hardly at all... or if you do buy commercial, it's friggin expensive as all get-out. I intended to bring a bunch of beer back to the States on my last trip, but the selection was sparse and the prices terrible.
 
dmtaylor said:
All of my non-craft beer drinking friends buy it. Therefore I have NOT tasted it.
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ericbw said:
So you won't try it because other people like it?
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They're not bad (I like Coney Island a little better than NYF as it's less sweet), as long as you go into it not expecting an actual beer. It's a "malt beverage" like Smirnoff Ice, not a brown ale with root beer spices.
 
drainbamage said:
They're not bad (I like Coney Island a little better than NYF as it's less sweet), as long as you go into it not expecting an actual beer. It's a "malt beverage" like Smirnoff Ice, not a brown ale with root beer spices.
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Coney Island is definitely better. I think they're both ok but a little strong for my preference. One of them (I think NYF) has too much licorice.
 
socounty said:
I remember when it was one of the few things on the shelf. I don't think we should make the comparison of a bewery founded in 1873 that turned its self into a billion dollar business to the trends of the craft beer scene.
A long way from what? The lack of selection years ago? Beer is no better because of selection if that's what you mean. There are many mediocre beers on the shelf these days that are surviving because of the craft is better mentality. When you can start home brewing and six months later your looking at financing for a "Artisanal ales" brewery that should say something about the state of the
Industry.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the years in the 70's when you couldn't buy Coors in some western states, and beer drinkers in those states regarded it as something special as a result. I made literally thousands of dollars when I was in my teens by smuggling Coors..... My customers were all legal age. ( a teenage "rum runner").

I would say that there are huge variations between brewers....... I toured a number of microbreweries on my recent trip, and I would definitely NOT link quality of product to years of practice at all....... or formal training. Some of the most mediocre "craft beers" I tasted were from a brewery where the owner had had formal training and years of experience at nearby microbrewery, and some of the best were at a tiny nanobrewery where the brewer was doing 5 gallon brews, and had only been in brewing for a coupler of years.....no formal training. Like artists...... some just "have it",

I brewed brew# 103 yesterday ( 1 year 7 months or all grain brewing ), and don't consider myself anywhere near the point where I would feel confident opening a brewery. I am however to the point where I can just go out and measure and crush grains and decide what I want for a hop profile, without using software until it comes time to decide how much of each hop and when, and in fact I would have no problem just brewing and documenting quantities and times without every running the numbers...... I like the software, as it allows me to juggle the hop addition times for the exact IBUs I want easily.


H.W.
 
Owly055 said:
I was referring to the years in the 70's when you couldn't buy Coors in some western states, and beer drinkers in those states regarded it as something special as a result. I made literally thousands of dollars when I was in my teens by smuggling Coors..... My customers were all legal age. ( a teenage "rum runner").



I would say that there are huge variations between brewers....... I toured a number of microbreweries on my recent trip, and I would definitely NOT link quality of product to years of practice at all....... or formal training. Some of the most mediocre "craft beers" I tasted were from a brewery where the owner had had formal training and years of experience at nearby microbrewery, and some of the best were at a tiny nanobrewery where the brewer was doing 5 gallon brews, and had only been in brewing for a coupler of years.....no formal training. Like artists...... some just "have it",



I brewed brew# 103 yesterday ( 1 year 7 months or all grain brewing ), and don't consider myself anywhere near the point where I would feel confident opening a brewery. I am however to the point where I can just go out and measure and crush grains and decide what I want for a hop profile, without using software until it comes time to decide how much of each hop and when, and in fact I would have no problem just brewing and documenting quantities and times without every running the numbers...... I like the software, as it allows me to juggle the hop addition times for the exact IBUs I want easily.





H.W.
Click to expand...


That's a good way to do it if you don't mind the variation from batch to batch. Some people (me) like the variation.

I explained to someone recently how hops can vary from crop to crop, etc. so you can calculate it each time based on AA% and determine the amount, or you could add the same amount and say, "this is how the 2015 batch tastes."
 
dmtaylor said:
I sure found that out recently. You Canucks must be really driven to homebrew and not purchase commercial hardly at all... or if you do buy commercial, it's friggin expensive as all get-out. I intended to bring a bunch of beer back to the States on my last trip, but the selection was sparse and the prices terrible.
Click to expand...
Commercial imports (non-BMC) are priced great here because the LCBO has the largest buying power of booze in NA. Hacker Pschorr for example, one I frequent is $3.40. I don't see it much for less than $5 online from US retailers and other provinces are even worse. **** beer is expensive because of they way things are taxed, the cheapest 24 of like... Brava or something is around $33. I don't care because I never buy it. Many people were happy when things were moving to privatized liquor sales but I'd be happier without it. Everyone will just sell junk and if the LCBO loses revenue, my $3 trippel will get marked up. All in all I don't hate the LCBO for smaller selections, a big reason probably being people only buy the 'yellow' beers anyway, I just wish there was equal selection of styles.

And homebrewers well... My sig says what is available to me. Small towns don't do grain. Saves money at least.
 
ericbw said:
That's a good way to do it if you don't mind the variation from batch to batch. Some people (me) like the variation.

I explained to someone recently how hops can vary from crop to crop, etc. so you can calculate it each time based on AA% and determine the amount, or you could add the same amount and say, "this is how the 2015 batch tastes."
Click to expand...

I only rarely brew from recipes............ I have no interest in drinking the same beer all the time, too many ingredients and combinations to try. I just brewed a high gravity brew yesterday with Janis Hoplin for flavor and aroma, and Magnum for bittering, the grains being mostly 2 row, with some Munich 20, some sugar to bump the gravity up without getting to rich. The Janis Hoplin was a free sample I grabbed and shoveled into a zip lock bag in Yakima at Yakima Valley Hops.... My favorite hop source. I visited them on my recent road trip, picked up a pound of mosaic, and a couple of other hops, and grabbed about an ounce each of Janis Hoplin and Green Magic ... which were both available for the taking.

http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/


Howard
 
socounty said:
I wasn't complaining about the style of beer. That being sours in general. I definitely was complaining about the trend. I didn't actually say I disliked
sours at all. That being said, I took a couple friends that are just getting into beer and from there observation it was definitely sour heavy. When I took a step back and looked I most definitely saw the same thing. It wasn't that sours or saisons or whatever are bad beers. That's the exact opposite of what I'm trying to
point out.
It's like when the movie sideways
came out and every novice wine drinker that saw the movie went on a freaking pinot rampage and Merlot was looked down upon as sub par wine.
Sour fanatics are coming people! Hide your wife, hide your kids, and hide your husband cause they about to sour everything up in here.
Click to expand...

Are we complaining about saisons or sours now?

I happen like both, so I'll just take yours I guess.

socounty said:
I remember when it was one of the few things on the shelf. I don't think we should make the comparison of a bewery founded in 1873 that turned its self into a billion dollar business to the trends of the craft beer scene.
A long way from what? The lack of selection years ago? Beer is no better because of selection if that's what you mean. There are many mediocre beers on the shelf these days that are surviving because of the craft is better mentality. When you can start home brewing and six months later your looking at financing for a "Artisanal ales" brewery that should say something about the state of the
Industry.
Click to expand...

Do you really believe this? I will agree that not all new breweries are producing good or great beer, but many are. And they are definitely producing more and different styles than the larger/older/regional/multinational breweries were before.

If they are producing beer that people do not want and do not buy(due to lack of quality, poor marketing, not the right market, whatever it is), they'll eventually close.
 
BGBC said:
Are we complaining about saisons or sours now?
Do you really believe this? I will agree that not all new breweries are producing good or great beer, but many are. And they are definitely producing more and different styles than the larger/older/regional/multinational breweries were before.

If they are producing beer that people do not want and do not buy(due to lack of quality, poor marketing, not the right market, whatever it is), they'll eventually close.
Click to expand...

The problem is that for all the new breweries, they are not producing that many more styles than there were before. Many are just offering more intense beers, which really means IPAs and derivatives - IIPA, DIPA, Wheat IPA, Session IPA, etc. And "pale ale" gets stretched to mean hoppy and bitter (like an IPA). American wheat means wheat grain, but hoppy and bitter compared to older wheat styles. Add in the "Imperial" versions of stout, porter, red. This isn't new styles or more variety - it's really varieties of hoppy, bitter, and higher alcohol.

Further, they don't need to be better, because there is no comparison of an Imperial Kolsch or a dry-hopped mild.

If you like this trend, then you see a lot of variety and expanded offerings. If you prefer malty session beers, you see less value in the new "variety."

So saisons, sours, etc. might be the new rage, but it will at least be a switch from the IPA rage.

From a homebrew standpoint, it probably takes more skill to control the yeast than it does to control hops. So it's probably harder to make a good saison than to make a good IPA. (Insert joke about no such thing as a good IPA.)
 

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