So are you making S-n-S starters now?It is a plate, but last week I learned of this bit:
4 at a time, using large jugs with 1 liter wort in each?
So are you making S-n-S starters now?It is a plate, but last week I learned of this bit:
It is a plate, but last week I learned of this bit:
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2020/12/09/shaken-not-stirred-the-stir-plate-myth-buster/
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311550#msg311550
I’m actually surprised more people don’t say they use an oxygen wand for the starter.
[Raises hand too].I’m actually surprised more people don’t say they use an oxygen wand for the starter.
Give it another day or 2.UPDATE: I made an 1800ml starter 24 hours ago, and there is zero activity. Every time I shake it, there is absolutely no foam. Smells like wort, not like yeast and beer. I know it's relatively early, but I've never had no response from a starter after one day. I'm pessimistic. The question is, should I be? I'm having technical issues trying to add a photo, but trust me, it's a dark, lifeless flask that I think is cackling at me. Any thoughts?
Yeah, it's more of a swirl. And a very careful swirl at that.Give it another day or 2.
BTW, how do you "shake" an (erlenmeyer) flask? Especially an almost full 2 liter one? I can't even swirl one when it's that full.
I don't. Would a glass growler fit the bill?Do you happen to have gallon (3.5 or 4 liter) "wine" jug with a screw lid, or a well fitting stopper? That makes a decent s-n-s vessel.
Shake it to create lots of foam.
You can't do that with an erlenmeyer flask, and shouldn't, it's not safe, much too fragile.
Yeah, got a gallon one? Or perhaps even better, two 1/2 gallon ones?I don't. Would a glass growler fit the bill?
Ah, it looks like I only have one half-gallon growler. Back to swirling, I guess.Yeah, got a gallon one? Or perhaps even better, two 1/2 gallon ones?
Make sure to always release the stopper or lid somewhat after shaking, so there won't be any pressure built up when the yeast gets active. Or "tent" the opening with aluminum foil.
Keep good sanitation, you don't want to grow bugs.
I'd pour half of the starter into that growler, splitting the starter. That will make swirling the flask much more efficient with much less risk of blow off once it takes off.Ah, it looks like I only have one half-gallon growler. Back to swirling, I guess.
I'll give it a shot!I'd pour half of the starter into that growler, splitting the starter. That will make swirling the flask much more efficient with much less risk of blow off once it takes off.
Before transferring, homogenize the starter in the flask by giving it a good stir, using a long sanitized spoon, or stirring stick, or so.
S-n-s the growler as if it owes you money with the screw cap on it. But let air get in there (while CO2 off gases) between shakes using the loosely crimped aluminum foil cap. Use good sanitation with all that.
I'd pour half of the starter into that growler, splitting the starter. That will make swirling the flask much more efficient with much less risk of blow off once it takes off.
Before transferring, homogenize the starter in the flask by giving it a good stir, using a long sanitized spoon, or stirring stick, or so.
S-n-s the growler as if it owes you money with the screw cap on it. But let air get in there (while CO2 off gases) between shakes using the loosely crimped aluminum foil cap. Use good sanitation with all that.
Since it's s-n-s, whenever you can, say 4-6 times a day. More won't hurt, but there are diminishing returns at some point. When shaking you want to create as much foam as you can. Each (tiny) foam bubble holds 21% Oxygen, surrounded by a film of suspended yeast cells.How often should I shake with the lid on?
That's why I suggested, after each shaking, to replace the screw cap with a sanitized aluminum foil "tent" so you just know gasses can freely exchange. Generated CO2 being able to escape being most important, or else... boom!Just don't forget to release the lid after each shaking.
+1 on all of that. The usual recommendation is to go in 10x steps by volume, 1800ml is too much of a jump - it's just a bit lost in there at the moment. And certainly with my multi-year-old packs I start with 5% DME for the first one and then step up to 10% DME (~1.040) - it just reduces the stress on old cells.That seems like a pretty big starter for an older pack of yeast. I would have gone smaller and weaker for a few days then bumped it up. It might take a few days for activity to be noticeable.
Ideally, yup, that would have been the much better strategy!+1 on all of that. The usual recommendation is to go in 10x steps by volume, 1800ml is too much of a jump - it's just a bit lost in there at the moment. And certainly with my multi-year-old packs I start with 5% DME for the first one and then step up to 10% DME (~1.040) - it just reduces the stress on old cells.
I didn't. Lesson learned, though.Yeah, I’d let it go at least a week looking for results, hopefully he didn’t brew yet.
That seems like a pretty big starter for an older pack of yeast. I would have gone smaller and weaker for a few days then bumped it up. It might take a few days for activity to be noticeable.
You both suggested these step-up strategies earlier in the thread in early June, almost a month back.+1 on all of that. The usual recommendation is to go in 10x steps by volume, 1800ml is too much of a jump - it's just a bit lost in there at the moment. And certainly with my multi-year-old packs I start with 5% DME for the first one and then step up to 10% DME (~1.040) - it just reduces the stress on old cells.
Keep them growing as they are, in 2 vessels. Keep swirling/shaking.Should I combine the two starters into the flask?
Adding a pack at that time would most likely be a bit too late. One pack is not enough to ferment 5 gallons of Lager, even it was packaged that same day. Most packs we get in the homebrew stores and mail order are 2-4 month old, on average. That why we make starters well ahead of brewday. That starter also helps us getting the right pitch amount.I ordered another smack pack of 2278 as a backup in case there aren't enough cells when it's fermenting. I figure I win either way.
That looks decent for a swirled starter. The thin white layer is the best, most pure yeast; the darker layer underneath is a mixture of that same pure yeast as well as dead cells and trub. At this point, all of it is useful.Five days after beginning the starter and about 10 hours after beginning the cold crash.
That looks decent for a swirled starter. The thin white layer is the best, most pure yeast; the darker layer underneath is a mixture of that same pure yeast as well as dead cells and trub. At this point, all of it is useful.
After crashing a little longer and decanting, I'd make another starter with the leftover slurry. Then you'll have enough for a good solid 5 gallon Lager pitch and save some (20-30%) out for the next starter.
If you brew often enough look into a stir plate. You could even build one, and while at it, build 2, or a twin setup.
BTW, I just cooked up another batch of 4 gallons concentrated (1.092) starter wort. I'm freezing most of it in 48 oz tubs. At time of use they get diluted 1.5x for 1.037 starter wort. Reboiled for all security.
Need more keg presses.A stir plate will be my next purchase. I never considered a repetitive motion injury a possibility when I got into homebrewing.
One thing I noticed with the cheaper stir plates is the magnets don't seem super strong, and they are closer together which limits larger stir bars. Even in starters I feel like I should be able to go faster than I can before the bar gets thrown off the magnet. It works though!A stir plate will be my next purchase. I never considered a repetitive motion injury a possibility when I got into homebrewing.
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