Is it worth trying a starter?

[SDJay]

Went to a brew store >2 hours away, bought Wyeast 3068. Did not notice that the mfg date was October 23, 2017 until I got home. Various software calculators indicate 0 viable cells. Does this mean there is no point in trying to do a starter with a step up?

 

[mongoose33]

There probably--depending on how it was stored during that time--are still viable cells in there. A starter would be a necessity, and in fact, you might consider doing a 2-step starter as the number of viable cells is likely very low.

It's not optimal, but it's worth a try. I have a couple of way-outdated packs of White Labs yeast just to see if I can revive them at all.

 

[kh54s10]

This calculator shows about 10% viability. http://www.yeastcalculator.com/ It's the one I use. I use the K. Troester stirplate method of aeration. Reading up on other calculators I decided most erred on the high side of the required cell counts. This one works very well for me.

Hover the mouse pointer over the description of a field and it gives a pop up with more information.

 

[flars]

I would give the starter a go. Take a look at the starter/pitch rate calculator @kh54s10 linked to. I would start with a 1.010 wort then step up to ≈ 1.038 wort for step 2 and beyond if necessary.

Old weak yeast will need extra time.

 

[BobBailey]

After some dated liquid yeast packets from my LHBS I went back to using dry yeast. Living in the desert makes ordering liquid yeast on line out of the question during the hotter months, and I'll be damned if I'll pay 8 bucks for dated product. I found that there is a much bigger selection of quality dry yeast strains than there were several years ago when I started using liquids.

 

[z-bob]

I used a year-old Wyeast packet last year. (stored in my fridge for months) I smacked it, and it took about 3 days to "wake" and swell up. Then went on the brew a good beer with it without making a starter. I probably got lucky with the no-starter part. But if your pack was stored refrigerated it's probably fine, just dormant and the cell count is down. Smack it and see what happens.

 

[kh54s10]

I used a year-old Wyeast packet last year. (stored in my fridge for months) I smacked it, and it took about 3 days to "wake" and swell up. Then went on the brew a good beer with it without making a starter. I probably got lucky with the no-starter part. But if your pack was stored refrigerated it's probably fine, just dormant and the cell count is down. Smack it and see what happens.

IMO, you certainly did get lucky. The nutrient pack does only that - wakes up the yeast. Pitching a fresh pack is under pitching. Will it ferment the wort - yes. Is it optimum - no. How bad any off flavors might be has many other factors and perception.

A fresh pack starts out with about 100 billion cells. Optimum pitch rate for an average ale is about 200 billion cells. The OP's pack has about 10 % viability or 10 billion cells so that is underpitching by 190 billion cells.

I would not advise just smacking and trying to use it without making a starter.

 

[mongoose33]

If you want to give it a shot, I'd suggest aerating your starter wort with O2 if you have it. Give that yeast a good head start. Also add a pinch of yeast nutrient to the starter. Then rinse and repeat.

 

[z-bob]

IMO, you certainly did get lucky. The nutrient pack does only that - wakes up the yeast. Pitching a fresh pack is under pitching. Will it ferment the wort - yes. Is it optimum - no. How bad any off flavors might be has many other factors and perception.

A fresh pack starts out with about 100 billion cells. Optimum pitch rate for an average ale is about 200 billion cells. The OP's pack has about 10 % viability or 10 billion cells so that is underpitching by 190 billion cells.

I would not advise just smacking and trying to use it without making a starter.

I would not recommend that either. But smack it and see what happens; give it a chance to wake up while it's still in a sterile environment. Then make a starter.

 

[SDJay]

I would give the starter a go. Take a look at the starter/pitch rate calculator @kh54s10 linked to. I would start with a 1.010 wort then step up to ≈ 1.038 wort for step 2 and beyond if necessary.

Old weak yeast will need extra time.

How much DME for a 1.010 wort? I have a stir plate, yeast nutrient, and a 1L & 2L flask.

 

[flars]

How much DME for a 1.010 wort? I have a stir plate, yeast nutrient, and a 1L & 2L flask.

The calculator will do the calculations. These starter/pitch rate tools are nice to get used to using.
Here is another one that I use.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

 

[SDJay]

The calculator will do the calculations. These starter/pitch rate tools are nice to get used to using.
Here is another one that I use.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

Thanks. My iPhone doesn’t support Flashplayer, which is needed for the first link, so I’ll have to wait till I get home and can check on my computer to do the calculations. Appreciate your help. I’ll post back and let you know how it turns out.

 

[SDJay]

After some dated liquid yeast packets from my LHBS I went back to using dry yeast. Living in the desert makes ordering liquid yeast on line out of the question during the hotter months, and I'll be damned if I'll pay 8 bucks for dated product. I found that there is a much bigger selection of quality dry yeast strains than there were several years ago when I started using liquids.

I am making a Bavarian Hefeweizen, & I haven’t found any dry yeast that has a decent track record for this style. I use dry yeast for all my other brews.

 

[flars]

I am making a Bavarian Hefeweizen, & I haven’t found any dry yeast that has a decent track record for this style. I use dry yeast for all my other brews.

I used WB-06 for my last Hefe. Very unimpressed. Only a tiny hint of clove. I don't like strong banana.

 

[SDJay]

I would give the starter a go. Take a look at the starter/pitch rate calculator @kh54s10 linked to. I would start with a 1.010 wort then step up to ≈ 1.038 wort for step 2 and beyond if necessary.

Old weak yeast will need extra time.

What is the reasoning behind starting at SG of 1.010 for the initial starter step?

 

[flars]

What is the reasoning behind starting at SG of 1.010 for the initial starter step?

The yeast is weak. Cell walls are not as flexible for drawing in nutrients and expelling toxins. Pitching the yeast in less sugar will be less stress. New cells that are propagated will have greater vigor to handle the standard starter wort.

 

[eadavis80]

Honestly, I've grown weary of all these yeast calculators and a lot of posts that say yeast is 90% dead if the smack pack is more than months old. I had a smack pack that was frozen for 4 days. Many claimed - both on the forum and in my LHBS - that the yeast was dead for sure. For Sn'G's I made a starter as an experiment. I left the smack pack at room temp for a few days waiting for it to inflate. It barely inflated at all. I pitched it into a <1L starter and 2 days later the starter's gravity was down to 1.010 proving it fermented it. Now, it might not have been the best yeast to pitch, but it did ferment. Some of my best beers have been from old smack packs or ones without starters. Sometimes stressing the yeast can be great for beers - especially wheats and Belgians. I would make a starter with the smack pack (even if it doesn't inflate) and pitch it. Yeast are pretty viable little creatures I've learned and I think those calculators underestimate them.