Is frozen apple juice concentrate a sham?

[NeverDie]

I ask because by accident I left a can of Hill Country Fare frozen apple juice in my car for a couple weeks. Apparently it had rolled under one of the seats and didn't roll back out until today. Anyway, even though the can says "KEEP FROZEN" and even has a "Best by 03/06/19" date stamped on it, it seems completely fine even though it undoubtedly unthawed the day I purchased it. The only ingredients listed are: concentrated apple juice and ascorbic acid. It says the juice is from the USA and Turkey. Given the abence of any apparent fermentation or other biological activity, I presume (?) it was pasteurized.

So why is it frozen at all? After all, bottled apple juice isn't kept frozen. Is it just theatrics to create a customer perception of freshness, or is there more to it than that?

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Don't know what happened, but it is certainly good for fermentation. I use it all the time.

 

[bmd2k1]

I ask because by accident I left a can of Hill Country Fare frozen apple juice in my car for a couple weeks. Apparently it had rolled under one of the seats and didn't roll back out until today. Anyway, even though the can says "KEEP FROZEN" and even has a "Best by 03/06/19" date stamped on it, it seems completely fine even though it undoubtedly unthawed the day I purchased it. The only ingredients listed are: concentrated apple juice and ascorbic acid. It says the juice is from the USA and Turkey. Given the abence of any apparent fermentation or other biological activity, I presume (?) it was pasteurized.

So why is it frozen at all? After all, bottled apple juice isn't kept frozen. Is it just theatrics to create a customer perception of freshness, or is there more to it than that?

Guessing it's frozen to increase shelf life - just like other fruit juice concentrates -- OJ, Grape Juice etc. Perhaps someone with a food science background can provide more info [emoji111]

 

[NeverDie]

Guessing it's frozen to increase shelf life - just like other fruit juice concentrates -- OJ, Grape Juice etc. Perhaps someone with a food science background can provide more info [emoji111]

Yes, I'm guessing this is the answer. Supposedly if it's kept frozen, then the shelf life is more or less indefinite.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Cold storage extends shelf life by reducing the rate chemical reactions, including staling/oxidation as well as microbial activity.

This concept is anything but a "sham". Clickbait thread title much?

 

[NeverDie]

Well, to be frank, I'm sorry you clicked on it if that's all you have to contribute. The question was already answered by bmd281, which your reply does not really add information to. The question remains as to why it doesn't seem to matter for bottled apple juice.

Moderator, feel free to edit title to be less click baitish, if that's what you deem it to be. Unfortunately, I don't have the power to edit it myself.

There, I hope you're happy now., rph_guy. Maybe you should become a moderator, and then you can fix things to your liking directly instead of posting snide comments.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I'm partial to clickbait titles myself. I figure the more folks you can sucker in the better.

 

[lschiavo]

This time of year, things are always unthawing in my car. Once they unfreeze, they are just fine and probably last longer too.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Well, to be frank, I'm sorry you clicked on it if that's all you have to contribute. The question was already answered by bmd281, which your reply does not really add information to. The question remains as to why it doesn't seem to matter for bottled apple juice.

Moderator, feel free to edit title to be less click baitish, if that's what you deem it to be. Unfortunately, I don't have the power to edit it myself.

There, I hope you're happy now., rph_guy. Maybe you should become a moderator, and then you can fix things to your liking directly instead of posting snide comments.

No need for all that. We're adults here.

The juice that can be stored at room temp is presumably heat pasteurized and/or sterile filtered and is packaged in a sterile manner.
It typically has ascorbic acid for preventing oxidation/browning.

I'm not really sure why they don't commonly have concentrate that can be stored at room temp, but it has to be some sort of stability issue.

Cheers

 

[lump42]

The frozen concentrate is intended for long term storage. The best by date may have been in March, but who knows how long it's been sitting in a warehouse somewhere. The combination of cold temps, high osmotic pressure from the sugar, and low acidity will keep much of the microbial activity at bay. Even in frozen environments microbial contaminants can spoil food, thus the need for the other layers of protection for long term storage.

I bet if you look at the bottled juice the sell by date will be much shorter. The sugar and acidity won't be shielding the juice only the pasteurization and aseptic packaging. If you leave the bottle sitting around for long enough it will likely spoil. The frozen can will be several magnitudes less likely. Creating the concentrate is expensive process, they won't be doing it unless it makes good business sense, so not a sham.... unless the stuff from Turkey is actually goat urine...

 

[NeverDie]

When I look at Member's Mark apple juice (sam's club), it doesn't even have a sell by date on it. All it says is that the concentrate it's derived from is from UKR/TUR. I presume UKR is Ukraine, and TUR is Turkey. What a wonderfully interconnected world we live in.

 

[lump42]

When I look at Member's Mark apple juice (sam's club), it doesn't even have a sell by date on it. All it says is that the concentrate it's derived from is from UKR/TUR. I presume UKR is Ukraine, and TUR is Turkey. So, at least the goat urine may be the same....

The sell by dates don't really tell you anything anyhow. They're just there to make sure product turns over on the shelf so the manufacturer can sell more. That's why the sell by date on Twinkies is 2 weeks from manufactured date, when we all know they'll be the staple diet after the world ends. If I remember correctly the only date codes that are regulated are on baby food.

 

[NeverDie]

The sell by dates don't really tell you anything anyhow. They're just there to make sure product turns over on the shelf so the manufacturer can sell more. That's why the sell by date on Twinkies is 2 weeks from manufactured date, when we all know they'll be the staple diet after the world ends. If I remember correctly the only date codes that are regulated are on baby food.

Who eats the cost if the sell-by date is exceeded? The retailer or the wholesaler/mfg? I know that when I was a kid selling newspapers to the public, it was the newspaper that ate the cost on any unsold newspapers, not me. If it works that way, then there'd be no reason for an early sell-by date. So, is it the retailer, then, that eats the cost? And if so, you'd think they would push back on too early a sell-by date if it wasn't really needed. I bet it wouldn't be hard for them to find alternate repackagers of URK/TUR concentrate who would stamp less aggressive dates on the cans.

 

[MarkKF]

I’m wondering if something so concentrated (what is it 1.200) could spontaneously ferment in a sealed can.

 

[S-Met]

The frozen concentrate is intended for long term storage. The best by date may have been in March, but who knows how long it's been sitting in a warehouse somewhere. The combination of cold temps, high osmotic pressure from the sugar, and low acidity will keep much of the microbial activity at bay. Even in frozen environments microbial contaminants can spoil food, thus the need for the other layers of protection for long term storage.

I bet if you look at the bottled juice the sell by date will be much shorter. The sugar and acidity won't be shielding the juice only the pasteurization and aseptic packaging. If you leave the bottle sitting around for long enough it will likely spoil. The frozen can will be several magnitudes less likely. Creating the concentrate is expensive process, they won't be doing it unless it makes good business sense, so not a sham.... unless the stuff from Turkey is actually goat urine...

Sometimes you can find the "packaged on" date, though not always. But what was said here is the key takeaway: "The combination of cold temps, high osmotic pressure from the sugar, and low acidity will keep much of the microbial activity at bay. Even in frozen environments microbial contaminants can spoil food, thus the need for the other layers of protection for long term storage."

I mean this respectfully to @NeverDie, you ask a lot of questions that your common sense and life experiences should be able to answer. This for example, take a piece of meat. Which will keep longer: .
Fresh - never frozen and stored unrefrigerated,
Fresh - never frozen stored under refrigeration,
Fresh - bagged at home and placed in a standard home freezer,
Fresh - vacuum sealed and flash-frozen at the packaging facility?

Top will spoil first and each layer will keep longer than the prior. Yes, bottled Juice is not meat, but the principles apply. Warmer environment leads to degradation more quickly than does cool environments.
Think about your fermenting: Warmer climates cause faster fermentation whereas cooler climates slows its rate of degradation. Yes, fermentation is degradation but sometimes that may be your intended purpose.

I'm not poking fun, I'm telling you that you already have the knowledge, you just need to believe in yourself and apply it.

 

[MaxStout]

I think he already knows the answers to these questions and just enjoys the attention. He has started several threads like this.

 

[NeverDie]

Sigh. I definitely do regret starting this thread. It has been misconstrued way beyond derailment.

 

[lump42]

Who eats the cost if the sell-by date is exceeded? The retailer or the wholesaler/mfg? I know that when I was a kid selling newspapers to the public, it was the newspaper that ate the cost on any unsold newspapers, not me. If it works that way, then there'd be no reason for an early sell-by date. So, is it the retailer, then, that eats the cost? And if so, you'd think they would push back on too early a sell-by date if it wasn't really needed. I bet it wouldn't be hard for them to find alternate repackagers of URK/TUR concentrate who would stamp less aggressive dates on the cans.

What does it matter? Either way the consumer pays for it in the end, just like all of consumer goods.

 

[wasully]

Who eats the cost if the sell-by date is exceeded? The retailer or the wholesaler/mfg? I know that when I was a kid selling newspapers to the public, it was the newspaper that ate the cost on any unsold newspapers, not me. If it works that way, then there'd be no reason for an early sell-by date. So, is it the retailer, then, that eats the cost? And if so, you'd think they would push back on too early a sell-by date if it wasn't really needed. I bet it wouldn't be hard for them to find alternate repackagers of URK/TUR concentrate who would stamp less aggressive dates on the cans.

Generally the retailer, but if our distributor gives us stuff too close to the sell-by date they eat the cost.

But lump42 is ultimately correct. We'll ignore the tax benefit of losses for this conversation.

 

[Mismost]

I suspect the high sugar content helped preserve the juice.
I assume the juice was pasteurized before canning.
Canned allowed no contamination.
Actually kind of good to know!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I assume the juice was pasteurized before canning.
Canned allowed no contamination.

Contamination is still a possibility, albeit pretty low. No system is perfect.

 

[treacheroustexan]

I know this has already been answered, but I work in an R&D role with PET packaging. So to summarize:

Juice is typically heated up to near 200F to kill of any bacteria, and filled into the PET container around 185F. The heat also sterilizes the container. The bottle is then cooled down through usually a water bath and the cooling process creates a vacuum in the bottle. This prevents any further bacterial growth in the bottle which extends the shelf life. Another common method is aseptic, where the bottle and juice (for example) are both sterilized beforehand and not sterilized in the container like the process I just mentioned.

Can't really do that with the little containers of juice concentrate, so that's why they are frozen. I'm sure there's more to it but I'm not super educated on the concentrate. But frozen indeed to extend shelf life.

 

[applescrap]

3 words, daddys juice 2.0!

 

[madscientist451]

Who eats the cost if the sell-by date is exceeded? The retailer or the wholesaler/mfg?

Big supermarkets rent shelf space to manufacturers/wholesalers. The store owns some of the items in there, but only a small percentage.
In some states, items past their sell by can't be legally sold. Big supermarket chains don't want those items in their stores because they don't want to hear customer complaints. There is a huge secondary market where discount groceries are sold. Discount stores get the food items in by the truckload and usually sell it pretty cheap. I have a few of these stores near me and some prices are OK, some aren't, so you have to hunt around the store looking for deals and items that you like. Stuff doesn't go bad as quickly as people think.
The frozen apple juice in your car didn't start fermenting because it was packaged under as close to sterile conditions as possible and no yeast or bacteria were present. Although it didn't go bad, the flavor may have been affected.