IPA Water

[Nashbrewer]

I'm looking to brew an IPA after moving to a new location and I'm not familiar with the water. I was going to use Distilled water instead and was looking at adjustments using EZ water calculator.

My grain bill is
12lbs of 2 row
1lb of Cararuby

For a 5G batch.
With this it states the pH is 5.64.
I was going to add 3.6 grams of Gypsum, 3.5 grams of Calcium Chloride, and 3 grams of epsom salts to achieve a PH of 5.55.

This gives me CA PPM of 62, mg of 10, Sodium of 0, Chloride of 59, and sulfate of 112. The Chloride to sulfate ration is .53 according to EZ_water this is low enough to enhance bitterness.

I read some where on the forums that epsom salts can taste funny. Would this water addition work just fine or would it cause off tastes?

Thank you all in advance.

 

[ajdelange]

I'd skip the epsom salts but I'd also skip the gypsum initially. Use a total of 1 gram/gal (about 1 tsp per 5 gal) calcium chloride. When the beer is ready to taste taste it as is and then add a little gypsum to the glass. If you think it leads to an improvement use gypsum in your future brewing of this beer. If you don't then don't use gypsum in future brews. See the Water Primer here. Note that we are completely ignoring chloride to sulfate ratio.

 

[mabrungard]

I would not skip the gypsum. An IPA will not come out with much hop expression if at least a modest level of sulfate is provided. That is a modest level proposed. Brew it!

 

[ajdelange]

I advise against using the sulfate initially because you may not like it! If you do, that's fine, but if you don't then why waste a beer? You can always add sulfate in the glass to get that first one drinkable but you can't take sulfate out in the glass. When I brewed 2 Burton ales for a water class one with Burton level sulfate and one with 27 mg/L every one who tasted the beers in the class and outside agreed that the low sulfate one was the better beer (but that the Burton level one was more 'authentic'). I did this twice for two classes several years apart and got the same response. You can get plenty of hop expression without sulfate. The Pilsner brewers certainly do it. It is a question of how those hops are expressed.

If OP is like most people I expect that he will eventually settle in at a sulfate level around 50 mg/L for his ales. That seems to be the sweet spot. Now I do know people that like more - lots more - and I know people who like less (me) but I have had some fine beers made with water at 50 mg/L and they sell like hot-cakes. This is why I suggest working up.

 

[afr0byte]

I found that my hoppy beers (not that I make many) didn't taste like I expected (like commercial hoppy beers I guess) until I added more sulfate (100+).

 

[Nashbrewer]

When adding to a small amount to the glass to test what increments do you normally recommend?

 

[Wynne-R]

That’s a tough one. I put two grams of gypsum into a batch that yields 50 beers, that’s 40mg / beer. Ez water calculates that as 59 ppm.

That’s a tiny amount. Unless you have some pretty sensitive scales you’re going to have to guess. My guess is that a 1/8" bit at the end of a sharp knife is close.

I think what you want to do is determine if you like the taste of sulfate in your beer. If you add some and you like it you can adjust your recipe accordingly. If you add some and hate it; guess what you just saved a batch.

 

[ajdelange]

Just tiny bits. Obviously you are going to want to be quantitative about this if you indeed find you do want some sulfate so if you have something like a reloading scale (always surprised at the number of home brewers who reload but perhaps I shouldn't be) you could measure out a few mg at a time and keep adding until you get what you like. Of course you don't have to hit it the first time. Bear in mind that this will give you an approximation so I'd encourage working up to whatever level you determine from the taste tests when you actually brew.

 

[Nashbrewer]

Thanks! I believe my scale I use for homebrew reads down to two decimal places which would be in increments of 10mg at a time. So a .04 would get me the 40mg for testing in a beer. If I want my original idea worth of gypsum I can add .09 approximately. Thank you all for your assistance! I'll probably do a blind taste test with this and see which is better.

I would love to get into re-loading, but I don't shoot enough anymore.

 

[mabrungard]

I found that my hoppy beers (not that I make many) didn't taste like I expected (like commercial hoppy beers I guess) until I added more sulfate (100+).

I have to agree with afr0byte on this subject and disagree with AJ. All the professional breweries that I consult with DO add a modest to high charge of gypsum to their hoppy PAs and IPAs to accentuate the hop perception. I like 300 ppm sulfate, Colin Kaminski likes even higher levels, and some pros do aim lower than 300. Somewhere in the range of 100 ppm is where I would start if I was unsure of my preference.

 

[afr0byte]

I think without the sulfate it tastes too much like hop/grapefruit juice to me.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, but the one I consult for doesn't and that's really the secret to the success of his ales (though, of course, his skills as a brewer have a lot to do with it) which outsell his Kölsch (for which his sulfate at 47 is too high) which he's still puzzling over as he is known as a Kölsch brewer. I'm not a big ales buff but this level of sulfate brings out, to my taste, tons of hop flavor without any harshness at all. Not authentic? Perhaps not. Good beer? I'd say so but a style Nazi might not agree. Big sellers? Yes! And as in investor that's the optimality criterion I'm most interested in (though it is good beer for sure).

I'll also note that Colin has said that he doesn't use nearly as much sulfate as he'd like to because he sells more beer with less.

In the last analysis what A.J. likes or Martin likes or Colin likes or his customers like doesn't really matter here at all. It's what Nashbrewer likes. Let's let him find that out.

 

[afr0byte]

Are we talking about Mad Fox? Their Dingo IPA did seem to have low sulfate, but it was also on cask, and thus warmer/sweeter.

 

[ajdelange]

I think without the sulfate it tastes too much like hop/grapefruit juice to me.

All those American varieties (the one's that don't taste like 2 x 4's) taste that way to me sulfate or no. It's a question of citrus and rough or citrus and not so rough. But that's my personal taste which I don't wish to suggest is any better or worse than anyone elses.

 

[afr0byte]

All those American varieties (the one's that don't taste like 2 x 4's) taste that way to me sulfate or no. It's a question of citrus and rough or citrus and not so rough. But that's my personal taste which I don't wish to suggest is any better or worse than anyone elses.

Fair enough.

 

[ajdelange]

Are we talking about Mad Fox? Their Dingo IPA did seem to have low sulfate, but it was also on cask, and thus warmer/sweeter.

Yes. I'd forgotten that you have been there! Haven't had the Dingo but all Bill's ales are, AFAIK, done with City of Falls Church (Corps of Engineers) water which was at 47 ppm last time I checked it (to see if it was the problem he was having with his Pils). And he goes pretty crazy with the hops sometime (Molotov Hoptail - you can imagine what that's like). But always lots of balanced flavor and aroma - not like many of the 'craft' ales you've doubtless experienced (not to say that there aren't others who do them as well as Bill does).