If I didn't have a choice but Iodine to sanitize how would you go about using it? how much per gallon? Set time? Dry time?
Iodine
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A quick look suggests a no-rinse solution of 12.5 ppm Iodine at 75°F with a contact time of 30 seconds minimum will do the job...
Cheers!
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OP
OP
Ok I saw the 12.5 ppm but how do I measure that sounds in grams per liter of water?
12.5 ppm is 12.5 parts per million, or 12.5 mg/liter (a liter is 1000 gr).
Now you only need to know how much Iodine is in your source.
Now you only need to know how much Iodine is in your source.
ppm is the same as mg/liter. But easier, you can use Google to do all this math for you. For example:
12.5 ppm * 5 gallons as tablespoons (entered as "12.5/1000000 * 5 gallons to tbsp")
> 0.016 US tablespoons
But we need to remember that the iodophor is 1% or 1.25% iodine depending on brand. The correction is to divide by 1%:
12.5/1000000 / 1% * 5 gallons to tbsp
> 1.6 US tablespoons
12.5 ppm * 5 gallons as tablespoons (entered as "12.5/1000000 * 5 gallons to tbsp")
> 0.016 US tablespoons
But we need to remember that the iodophor is 1% or 1.25% iodine depending on brand. The correction is to divide by 1%:
12.5/1000000 / 1% * 5 gallons to tbsp
> 1.6 US tablespoons
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
It's insane to make 5 gallons of it at a time. 1/2 gallon should be more than enough. Move it around as needed. All that is required is to wet the surfaces. No need to swim your equipment in it. It's all explained here in this podcast interview with the CEO of a popular company that manufactures and sells Iodophor.
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/1/c/b1c...42270113&hwt=c440eb0e5ea523f849c7fa17f18d4089
That said, an old rule of thumb was 2 cap-fulls in 5 gallons = 12.5 ppm
You want a very faint yellow. At more than 12.5 ppm it is not considered no-rinse.
The plus side is that Iodine kills more bacteria more effectively than acid based sanitizers.
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/1/c/b1c...42270113&hwt=c440eb0e5ea523f849c7fa17f18d4089
That said, an old rule of thumb was 2 cap-fulls in 5 gallons = 12.5 ppm
You want a very faint yellow. At more than 12.5 ppm it is not considered no-rinse.
The plus side is that Iodine kills more bacteria more effectively than acid based sanitizers.
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I've listened to that interview. I'd like to watch him to try sanitizing silicone, teflon, or polyproplyene with that technique. His arms will get sore from all the shaking, since they don't stay wet for more than milliseconds.
If I'm remembering the right interview, he seemed to imply that the surface is wet on a microscopic level. On a hydrophobic surface, that ain't so.
I have a big PP tub I used as a bottling bucket, and I did do the "shake and slosh" thing, but I had to add a ton of surfactant to get the surface to wet. And of course, it wasn't no-rinse after that.
Couldn't agree more. If you want to guarantee adequate contact times on all surfaces you either completely fill, regardless of how wasteful this is, or you have some sort of CIP set-up where you let it run for at least 30 min thereby continuously wetting all surfaces, even hydrophobic ones. At my scale (14 gal Unitank) I choose to completely fill as that means only 30 milliliters of sanitizer per batch, it's really not worth the hassle of trying different methods to maybe save 20 milliliters of sanitizer per batch at the rate of 1 batch per month.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
3 mL in a gallon of water makes a 12.5 ppm solution. 2.96 mL to be more precise.
14.8 mL in 5 gallons of water = 12.5 ppm
There are 5 mL in a standard TSP measure. There are 3 TSP in one TBSP. So 1 TBSP in 5 gallons should get you right close.
The above is for specifically the BTF brand. Other brands have different concentrations.
14.8 mL in 5 gallons of water = 12.5 ppm
There are 5 mL in a standard TSP measure. There are 3 TSP in one TBSP. So 1 TBSP in 5 gallons should get you right close.
The above is for specifically the BTF brand. Other brands have different concentrations.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
The proper contact time for 12.5 ppm is 2 minutes.
Note: When I stated above that Iodophor kills more bacteria I should more properly have stated "more types of bacteria".
I believe the legal definition of sanitization is 99.9% of nasties killed. Disinfection is 99.99% killed. And sterilization is 100% killed.
I believe that at 25 ppm Iodophor is classified as a disinfectant. But at that level it is far from being no-rinse.
Note: When I stated above that Iodophor kills more bacteria I should more properly have stated "more types of bacteria".
I believe the legal definition of sanitization is 99.9% of nasties killed. Disinfection is 99.99% killed. And sterilization is 100% killed.
I believe that at 25 ppm Iodophor is classified as a disinfectant. But at that level it is far from being no-rinse.
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Actually, just about everything I've read (formal publications, not blogs or podcasts) says 25 ppm is the max allowable concentration for no-rinse usage. (Be warned that the manufacturer may increase the concentration so the product will still be within parameters if there is a minor production problem or if it's on the shelf for ten years.)
http://www.ncceh.ca/sites/default/files/Food_Contact_Surface_Sanitizers_Aug_2011.pdf
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/food/fs/safesan.html
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
The CEO of BTF stated on the podcast that it is not a no rinse product at 25 ppm. I would have to believe him.
Rinsing with RO water should be a fairly safe proposition. I don't think any bacteria are small enough to pass through the membrane. Or just use it at 12.5 ppm and don't bother with rinsing.
Rinsing with RO water should be a fairly safe proposition. I don't think any bacteria are small enough to pass through the membrane. Or just use it at 12.5 ppm and don't bother with rinsing.
Not if you ask a microbiologist... Anyway, if you just spray it on a hydrophobic surface it will stay there for maybe 2 seconds, way too short a time to be effective in any way.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
What proper contact time did your microbiologist suggest for a 12.5 ppm solution when you asked him/her?
BTF had to get certified legal classification of their product as a sanitizer, and to do so they used 2 minutes of contact time. It may only take 30 seconds for nearly all real world cases, but the governments criteria may be more demanding. Of this I can only conjecture though.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
To answer the latter part of the OP's question, the CEO of BTF stated in his podcast that there is no need to let a 12.5 ppm treated surface come to dryness. Get as much out as you can via gravity and then move forward. No need to sit around and wait for it to dry.
I presume that if it dries, the residual iodine that did not sheet off is merely going to deposit out onto the surface as dry iodine anyway. But this part is merely my speculation.
I presume that if it dries, the residual iodine that did not sheet off is merely going to deposit out onto the surface as dry iodine anyway. But this part is merely my speculation.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
34 years ago, when I just started beer brewing, products such as "One Step" were considered to be no-rinse cleaner/sanitizers (thus the name). Now they can only legally be sold as cleaners, and no longer as sanitizers. I don't know when things changed, but for many years a lot of us used these products for both purposes. I never once heard of anyone getting sick or winding up tossing out beer from following this practice and doing so diligently and properly. I'm not recommending this, I'm simply recalling the past. Either One Step takes too long to kill bacteria via contact, or it doesn't kill a broad enough spectrum of bacteria, or it takes too much of it, or it never killed bacteria to begin with, or the company could not afford to undergo the certification process, or other...
I'm sure that's accurate. The problem is that I've read online posts by brewers that say they never sanitize. Sanitizing is like getting a vaccine: it might save you or it might not be necessary, but you have no way to know.
The other snag is that (I've read) minor infections can cause off flavors, even if they don't cause moldy gross colonies. I've never had an overt infection (except when doing dumb BS like using unpasteurized fruit without sulfites or pectic enzymes), but I've had many batches with off flavors. I'm not sure, but I suspect some of that was caused by bacteria or wild yeast. So I suspect the incidence of infection problems is more widespread than what can be proved. (Also, I read a Scott Labs description of off flavors, and a bunch were supposedly caused by infection. So it won't necessarily make you throw away your drink, but it may impact flavor.)
A homebrewer friend of mine used to give his bad batches to neighbors and bring them to parties. His less picky friends didn't mind! I don't know whether the problem was infection, but he felt there was a level of defect which was acceptable to muggles but not good enough for his own standards. Infection might manifest this way.
@Silver_Is_Money You're right about the 12.5 ppm being no-rinse. I realized it's not because of humans: for humans, 25 ppm is definitely no-rinse (see previous citations). But for the yeast, it's entirely possible that only 12.5 ppm is no-rinse. Official health/safety guidelines weren't written with successful homebrewing in mind.
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He's lucky he never got a megasphera infection. I tried a beer that was purposefully infected with it and whilst perfectly safe for humans it really did taste and smell like something that came out of a gutter.
30 minutes is a much safer bet with only 12.5 ppm. 2 minutes might be OK with higher concentrations, provided of course you can actually get the solution to stick to every single surface for that long. But the it's not no-rinse any more...
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
2 minutes passed the stringent government requirement for classification as a sanitizer. I would guess this to mean that less than 2 minutes is generally sufficient before I would guess a requirement for 30 minutes.
