Installing PEX Pipe for Water Supply - Issue - Need Help

[Jiffster]

Getting ready to cut into copper supply pipe to add shark bite t fitting to install PEX tube. Is this going to interfere with grounding?

Look close at picture where ground wire is connected to pipes. I'm planning to tap into the 2 water lines towards left side of pic.... Between joists.

Is this going to affect the reason for the copper wire? (Ground?)

 

[day_trippr]

If the tee you're inserting is not electrically conductive (I don't know anything about SharkBite fittings) then move the grounding wire upstream of the inserted tee...

Cheers!

 

[Genacide]

You could also bridge the 2 pieces of copper around the Shark Bite T with some additional copper wire. That is IF the shark bite isn't conductive.

 

[Newsman]

Might I point out that WATER will be flowing through those pipes. Regular tap water is an excellent conductor of electricity. Since the water makes physical contact with the grounded copper pipe, I don't see a point in re-grounding on the other side of the PEX connector.

 

[Jiffster]

Good points. Bridging the T would be easy and I'll probably do that just to be sure.

What about fitting the T? Do you think I'll have a problem moving the pipes enough to fit it in after cutting the pipes?

 

[Owly055]

There really is no reason to be grounded to all three pipes. Normal procedure is to have a ground rod driven into the ground and only be grounded to that. Whoever did this was an idiot! You will find a ground rod outside by your meter if it's correctly done. That's all you really need. Those copper lines connect to what? Probably PVC, as putting copper underground is not considered proper. A ground at the breaker box is redundant. There is no harm in it, but also no real point in it. The gas supply pipe is probably the only one of the 3 that really is a decent ground anyway. because it connects to the meter and to the underground gas main eliminate the others......they are absurd!

In the photo it looks like the ground wire doesn't go anywhere anyway. It appears that it just connects the three pipes.......... ??

I just Googled the situation, and the code requires gas pipe upstream from the meter to be grounded. Apparently the gas line is being "grounded" to the water pipes, but it is unlikely that the water lines in a modern home are a real ground, in which case the breaker box would be the place it should be connected to ground, not the water pipes. Take a look at your water system and see if the lines actually are a real ground, that is to say does the water come into the house in a metal line?

H.W.

 

[Jiffster]

..............
In the photo it looks like the ground wire doesn't go anywhere anyway. It appears that it just connects the three pipes.......... ??

I'll double check when I get home but that's what I noticed as well.

........ Take a look at your water system and see if the lines actually are a real ground, that is to say does the water come into the house in a metal line?

H.W.

I'll check. Pretty sure it does. I know the pipe to our sprinkler system is metal.

 

[Jiffster]

I think I found the answer to the SharkBite issue if I can't fit the normal SharkBite T onto the pipe.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgdBv5BK5dQ[/ame]

 

[day_trippr]

Might I point out that WATER will be flowing through those pipes. Regular tap water is an excellent conductor of electricity. Since the water makes physical contact with the grounded copper pipe, I don't see a point in re-grounding on the other side of the PEX connector.

Except you would never, ever pass a code inspection like that...

Cheers!

 

[Jiffster]

Except you would never, ever pass a code inspection like that...

Cheers!

Good point. Jumper is definitely called for.

 

[PlexVector]

Supposedly improper grounded copper pipes can lead to galvanic corrosion and lead to pitting and thinning from inside the pipe. I know low pH water will thin the pipe. Maybe the galvanic corrosion is due to the water completing the circuit between two sections of pipe that are at different voltage potentials?

 

[day_trippr]

The actual reason why metal pipe runs are supposed to be grounded is to blow out a circuit breaker or fuse should the pipe ever become energized, instead of potentially shocking someone. That's why you see at least two of the jumpers in the picture - to the cold water supply and to the gas line.

And it's good practice to pick up the output of the hot water system as well as corrosion at the heating unit isn't uncommon and raises the electrical impedance through the heater to the cold water side. Which explains the other jumper...

Cheers!

 

[reynolds5520]

I think I found the answer to the SharkBite issue if I can't fit the normal SharkBite T onto the pipe.

Yes, unless the piping configuration is such that you can easily move one side after cutting, you will want the slip tee fitting.


As you suspected, Sharkbite fittings do not provide appropriate electrical bonding of the copper tube. Do use a minimum of 6 gauge copper to make a grounding jumper to bond around the tee. And install the jumper before you cut the pipe.

Sure, people here could argue forever about whether it's needed, but they can't see the rest of the system from your one picture so they can't be certain about what they're saying. You'll be the one grabbing onto that that tubing while you work, you don't want to find out the hard way that you needed the jumper.

 

[The_Bishop]

Honestly, I'd skip the sharkbites and solder in a copper T. I've seen sharkbites develop leaks over time.

 

[Jiffster]

Honestly, I'd skip the sharkbites and solder in a copper T. I've seen sharkbites develop leaks over time.

I hate sweating pipes that have water in them (or had). I've tried drying them out and putting bread in them and success was hit and miss.

 

[Newsman]

Except you would never, ever pass a code inspection like that...

Cheers!

Ah. I sit corrected. But that seems pretty illogical to me since tap water is an excellent ground.

 

[ebstauffer]

I hate sweating pipes that have water in them (or had). I've tried drying them out and putting bread in them and success was hit and miss.

No kidding... Im pretty sure the bread trick is urban folklore. My luck has it always gumming up the toilet stop! If you can drain the system at a basement sink and then "pushing" up the pipes just enough to keep water away you can probably get those soldered. I can't stand sharkbites and their kin except in rare cases.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Ah. I sit corrected. But that seems pretty illogical to me since tap water is an excellent ground.

There is an exception to tap water being a ground. I have all PEX piping, except for about 3 feet running to a filter. Other than that no copper anywhere. Water running through plastic pipe offers virtually no conductivity after a foot or so. The shark-bite fitting should be fine, while they could possibly leak I have not had an issue in 5 years and soldering wet pipe is just a PIA.

 

[odorf]

No kidding... Im pretty sure the bread trick is urban folklore. My luck has it always gumming up the toilet stop! If you can drain the system at a basement sink and then "pushing" up the pipes just enough to keep water away you can probably get those soldered. I can't stand sharkbites and their kin except in rare cases.

er,,,,ah,,,,, Folklore?

no, it is not. Hello!

I am a licensed plumber, I assure it is not.


one evening around 6pm, I was about 5' deep in a mud hole trying to fix a leak, the valve was leaking thru, giving me grief.
i told my helper.
here is 2 bucks, go to that 7/11 and get me a loaf of bread.
about 15 minutes later, he came back.
sat down on the edge of the hole
and informed me
I had a few bucks, we dont have to have just bread for dinner. i got a pack of bologna and 2 cokes.
I just laughed, at the balogna sammich, drank the coke.
then told him.
NOW, lemmie show you what the bread is for


I do, BTW agree with you, sharkbites are a BS item that i NEVER use
they tend to leak around 2am and on weekends when no one is home
like they are possessed or programmed. they NEVER leak when you are around

 

[ebstauffer]

er,,,,ah,,,,, Folklore?
I am a licensed plumber, I assure it is not.

And therein lies the problem! You can probably sweat a 2" copper pipe in 10 seconds. I have to f*** around with it for ten minutes while any remaining water in the line soaks the bread, leaks by, and ruins the joint!

Admittedly I have used SBs for 3/4" PEX (or some type of CPT plastic tubing) to 3/4" copper where the SB was readily accessible for when it leaks. AND it was in my garage so when it leaks it wont ruin anything. Otherwise Im a fan of the Zurn pex fitting because I think they look tidy. Weird, I know.

 

[odorf]

And therein lies the problem! You can probably sweat a 2" copper pipe in 10 seconds. I have to f*** around with it for ten minutes while any remaining water in the line soaks the bread, leaks by, and ruins the joint!

Admittedly I have used SBs for 3/4" PEX (or some type of CPT plastic tubing) to 3/4" copper where the SB was readily accessible for when it leaks. AND it was in my garage so when it leaks it wont ruin anything. Otherwise Im a fan of the Zurn pex fitting because I think they look tidy. Weird, I know.

here is a tip. next time after you drain the system, after you have cleaned it and
are ready to solder. lift the pipe up, place your plyers, or what ever is handy
under the area to be soldered. this causes the pipe to b tilted in an upward position.

giving you time to HURRY UP and solder it

 

[jimmer]

I know I'm 8 months late on this, but the reason you would never pass inspection is that water is actually a lousy conductor of electricity. You clamp to pipes because they go deep into the ground and because the metal pippes are good or very good conductors.

Shark Bites come in brass & plastic versions. Even with the brass version, play it safe and move the grounding clamps, or get some ore and jump the new fittings.