Infection in Secondary

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WillieP

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I am hoping that someone will be able to identify the type of infection that this beer has.
Is this the type of thing that makes it an automatic dumper, or is this something that may just sour the finished beer??
When I racked it from primary it did have an odd twang to the hydo sample.
FYI, I did use an old CAL001 yeast slurry as my yeast.

Thanks in advance to any who can help!

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I don't really know about sours, but I don't think you will know if it will be a drinkable sour just by looks. Wild contaminates might make something OK or it could be terrible. From what I have read it may take up to a year or more for you to really find out.

That is a good reason to skip a secondary.
 
That's definitely an infection.
The strangest thing is, the pellicle seems to be forming in patches, usually you get a pellicle covering the whole surface and pretty fast, starting with a haze.

The infection is in your beer. Taste it, and if you still like it, package it. A keg would be best, as you can force carbonate them, then drink em fast. With bottles, the 2-3 weeks it takes to carbonate will make them more sour. They could explode if the bug takes over fast.

Forgot to ask, why the secondary?
We don't do those anymore, some exceptions noted, but not routinely. Most if not all recipe kits still include instructions to rack to secondary after xx days, but the problems it brings easily outweigh the potentially small benefits, if any.

Skip secondaries in general or you risk infection and oxidation.
 
IslandLizard,
I still bottle condition, so that does complicate thing a pitch.
My habit of using a secondary is just a leftover from making wine. Wine is racked multiple times to achieve clarity, and I've made wine for 12 years and beer for 4 years. I like to be able to see the amount of sediment I have at the bottom of the secondary as a means of judging if it's time to bottle. But I totally get your point and the risk of infection and oxidation, I just have never had an issue until now.
I have had a local brewer suggest that I should taste it and if it's not infected with a bug that makes it a dumper, just something that will sour it, then I should add some cherries and wait till next spring to bottle.
Will the bacteria have done it's thing by then? Would I still not have the same hazards when adding priming sugar and bottling? (maybe I'll be force carbing by then)

All input welcome...
Cheers!
 
SO2 (campden) will suppress bacteria, lysozyme will kill LAB. Adding both should cover all your bases. The drink it fast method is tried and true, but I'm partial to embracing the funk. Bottling up without treating may lead to increasing funk so maybe the best approach is to let nature take its course, drink slowly until the funk kicks in, then drink fast before it starts to taste like feet.

Also, brew faster. Secondary isn't necessary most of the time- I personally like a few days of cold "secondary" but I will skip it without hesitation.
 
IslandLizard,
I still bottle condition, so that does complicate thing a pitch.
My habit of using a secondary is just a leftover from making wine. Wine is racked multiple times to achieve clarity, and I've made wine for 12 years and beer for 4 years. I like to be able to see the amount of sediment I have at the bottom of the secondary as a means of judging if it's time to bottle. But I totally get your point and the risk of infection and oxidation, I just have never had an issue until now.
I have had a local brewer suggest that I should taste it and if it's not infected with a bug that makes it a dumper, just something that will sour it, then I should add some cherries and wait till next spring to bottle.
Will the bacteria have done it's thing by then? Would I still not have the same hazards when adding priming sugar and bottling? (maybe I'll be force carbing by then)

All input welcome...
Cheers!

If you want beer clarity, cold crashing (ideally at near freezing temps) for a few days to a week is your best bet, along with some gelatin finings for more tenacious ones or to speed things up. Some yeasts stay in suspension longer so they may need more time.

Bottle conditioning also helps in sedimentation of the suspended yeast. It's a much shorter travel to the bottom in a bottle than it is in a keg, bucket, or carboy. When I cold crash yeast starters I can see the higher clarity forming on top. When the yeast is very powdery I sometimes cold crash those for a week.

The main reason for secondaries used to be to avoid yeast autolysis. With modern yeasts this is less likely and generally a non-issue for homebrewers, as we only have small fermentors, not 10-30' of beer weight pressing down on it as in (pro-size) conicals. Your beer will clear fine in the original fermentor. Just be gentle, not shaking it up when moving it to the racking area.

Definitely taste it! Take some out with a wine thief.
If the infected beer tastes good (or even just OK), there's no reason to dump it. I've had a most wonderful lacto soured Milk Stout, different, but possibly on par or better than what the original would have tasted like. The guy had 15 gallons of it!

The beer will sour more over time, either get better or worse. In general unintended sourings are a crap shoot, as you don't know what bugs you've got in there. They may also lack depth and complexity, as intended sours would give you. The infection might be lacto but could as well be something else, like Brett, Pedio, or a wild yeast. Only a microscope and several years of experience in microbiology could reveal what is in there.

On the other hand you could add some extra bugs of your own. Like (built up) dregs from a sour bottle of beer, or a commercial culture, such as Roeselare or something from one of the new yeasteries that pop up around us.

6 months on whole cherries (or puree) can yield a wonderful sour. Just fill the carboy up as much as possible to eliminate air (O2), leaving only about 2-3 inches of headspace under the bung. If you come up short, add some beer from a different batch. The reason is, O2 can encourage acetobacter to grow, making vinegar from your alcohol. In the beginning, if any cherries remain afloat, every few days swirl the carboy gently, so they remain coated with beer and won't develop mold. If that doesn't work, push them down, like with the back end of your plastic brewing spoon. Don't stir or whip air into it. After a few weeks they should all remain suspended. Chances are a pellicle will cover them too, which is fine, prevents intruders.

Depending on the bugs, like Brett, they may take even longer to totally ferment out, but if the gravity is low enough, you could probably bottle it by then (use strong bottles) and keep checking. You probably need to add some yeast by then to get them to prime which may take quite a few weeks. Or simply keg it and force carbonate. You can then bottle from the keg if you want.
 
If you noticed an odd flavor out of primary, odds are it was already infected. A pellicle only forms as a barrier against oxygen which the transfer would have done. You definitely run a risk of bottle bombs if you bottle before whatever is in there is done.
 
I sampled the beer.
I did NOT find rotten cabbage, bad feet, Band-Aids or vinegar. The beer is of coarse warm and flat, but there is no terrible taste to it. I get a very mild sourness, nothing offensive. It is rather cloudy and there is a slight airlock activity, so there is definitely a second fermentation going on.
If I could force carb, that is what I think I would do, and just drink it up fast. But I can't, so... Since it is already infected, I thought about intentionally adding a souring agent. (As per IslandLizard's suggestion) Maybe build up the dregs from a commercial sour beer and add them to it. If I go that route, (I've never done a sour, intentional or otherwise) how do I know when it is OK to bottle? Adding priming sugar and fresh yeast to get it to bottle condition when I know there is a bacteria in there is very foreign to me.
Also I have a case of pint swingtops, would that be a good choice for this. I have no experience with them. My thought was, the seal at the top may give way before a bottle exploded.

Thanks for your advise.
All input welcome...
 
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