InBev Strikes Again

[pepindavid]

AB doesn’t want to eliminate all flavorful beer and force everyone to drink Bud, they just want everyone to drink beer they brewed, they don’t care what style it is.

The missing part is that they want to do it with an "accountant" mentality, cutting costs wherever possible, including slightly reducing quality, detail by detail, if they think they can get away with it. At their scale and volume, every minor reduction in cost can result in

It's not if what the big companies is not also influencing what people want (that's why millions is spent on publicity).

The bottom line, though, is that we live in a capitalist economy, where the "law" is the capital HAS to be accumulated. Big companies, to survive, are condemned to expand their profit, accumulate capital. Sure, small companies (not publicly traded) can "stagnate" in a state where they feel that make an ok living and provide a good service/product. But that's not what defines our "monopolistic capitalist" society (yes, I know, I sound like a marxist).

 

[WaltStarr]

The missing part is that they want to do it with an "accountant" mentality, cutting costs wherever possible, including slightly reducing quality, detail by detail, if they think they can get away with it. At their scale and volume, every minor reduction in cost can result in

It's not if what the big companies is not also influencing what people want (that's why millions is spent on publicity).

The bottom line, though, is that we live in a capitalist economy, where the "law" is the capital HAS to be accumulated. Big companies, to survive, are condemned to expand their profit, accumulate capital. Sure, small companies (not publicly traded) can "stagnate" in a state where they feel that make an ok living and provide a good service/product. But that's not what defines our "monopolistic capitalist" society (yes, I know, I sound like a marxist).

We are more of a laissez faire capitalist society than a monopolistic capitalist society. What's needed is further regulation.

 

[jensek]

The missing part is that they want to do it with an "accountant" mentality, cutting costs wherever possible, including slightly reducing quality, detail by detail, if they think they can get away with it. At their scale and volume, every minor reduction in cost can result in

It's not if what the big companies is not also influencing what people want (that's why millions is spent on publicity).

The bottom line, though, is that we live in a capitalist economy, where the "law" is the capital HAS to be accumulated. Big companies, to survive, are condemned to expand their profit, accumulate capital. Sure, small companies (not publicly traded) can "stagnate" in a state where they feel that make an ok living and provide a good service/product. But that's not what defines our "monopolistic capitalist" society (yes, I know, I sound like a marxist).

Weirdly…despite the “Monopolistic Capitalist” economy…we’ve never had more breweries or better beer.

 

[bob1852]

The missing part is that they want to do it with an "accountant" mentality, cutting costs wherever possible,

So, small breweries aren't conscious of costs, and things they can tinker with to save money, increase margins, and maintain/expand a product that consumers want?

I'd argue that smaller breweries need to be much more conscious of costs as their margins are much smaller...

 

[jensek]

We are more of a laissez faire capitalist society than a monopolistic capitalist society. What's needed is further regulation.

More regulation favors big business. Raises startup and compliance costs for small business and decreases competition.

 

[pepindavid]

Weirdly…despite the “Monopolistic Capitalist” economy…we’ve never had more breweries or better beer.

And they are slowly being bought one by one.

The concept of "monopoly capitalism" (sorry, I think I used the French "capitslisme momopolistique") is that the need for capital accumulation (always more and more, no end to the need to increase profits) tends to create monopolies over time. It doesn't exclude that small guys exist, and can thrive. Just that that there is a tendency towards monopoly as a sector matures. At least that's what I recall from the concept.

But... That's way too serious for a Friday afternoon.

Cheers!

 

[bob1852]

And they are slowly being bought one by one.

The rate of new breweries opening is far greater than that of acquisitions/partnerships by InBev...

The number of microbreweries has more than doubled since 2012 (1149 to 2397).

https://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/number-of-breweries/

Has InBev acquired ~1250 microbreweries in that time?

 

[WaltStarr]

More regulation favors big business. Raises startup and compliance costs for small business and decreases competition.

That's the myth that gets pushed by big business, but the opposite is actually true.

 

[jensek]

The rate of new breweries opening is far greater than that of acquisitions/partnerships by InBev...

The number of microbreweries has more than doubled since 2012 (1149 to 2397).

https://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/number-of-breweries/

Has InBev acquired ~1250 microbreweries in that time?

Excellent point. The beer industry was closer to “monopoly” 30 years ago….but even then there were ~80 breweries in the US. The beer industry is already mature. It’s one of the oldest industries in the country. If we lived in a “monopolistic capitalistic” society I would think the beer industry would already be a monopoly. Instead it has gotten more competitive with 4,600 breweries.

 

[Sparge]

I have no problem with stores or breweries selling out to InBev. I applaud the small business person who builds something of value and then cashes out. That is the American way. What I have an issue with is big businesses with predatory business practices (some of which have been very questionable) taking over an industry. I do not want the beer market to look like Walmart.

When I was growing up, we shopped at the local grocery store, local hardware store, the local pharmacy, etc. Owners and workers in these stores lived fairly decent lives on livable wages and in many cases good benefits. That sure beats the hell out of the minimum wage big box salaries. The only tool I have to show my displeasure, is where I spend my money. I have a great relationship with my local LHBS and they will get my money until they are run out of business or bought out by InBev or some other conglomerate.

 

[jensek]

That's the myth that gets pushed by big business, but the opposite is actually true.

It was the ever increasing beer and brewing regulations that have given rise to the 4,600 breweries in the US? No. It's the opposite. Regulations and barriers to entry have decreased.

 

[Toga]

I don't think there is a need to panic with this one. I am not a fan of InBev but Look what InBev has done with Goose Island. They have not ruined the name and products from what I can taste. This can only be a win for the brand with the long arms of InBev introducing it where it has not been introduced yet.

 

[WaltStarr]

It was the ever increasing beer and brewing regulations that have given rise to the 4,600 breweries in the US? No. It's the opposite. Regulations and barriers to entry have decreased.

And you're wrong again. There is more regulatory control over the big breweries today than before the legalization of home brewing, and we all know the legalization of home brewing led directly to the craft beer microbrewery revolution.

I don't think there is a need to panic with this one. I am not a fan of InBev but Look what InBev has done with Goose Island. They have not ruined the name and products from what I can taste. This can only be a win for the brand with the long arms of InBev introducing it where it has not been introduced yet.

As somebody who was a big fan of Goose Island prior to the buyout I can guarantee you, they ruined the products.

 

[slym2none]

Maybe I will finally get to try Hopadillo now, here in NC.

Or, should I just make a batch of Haterade???

 

[jensek]

And you're wrong again. There is more regulatory control over the big breweries today than before the legalization of home brewing, and we all know the legalization of home brewing led directly to the craft beer microbrewery revolution.

You realize you just agreed that deregulation led to the increase in breweries?

 

[WaltStarr]

You realize you just agreed that deregulation led to the increase in breweries?

The deregulation was not deregulation of business. It was deregulation of what was permissible in a person's own home. Two completely different things.

In fact, this deregulation of what a person could do in their own home led directly to new regulations that allowed small microbreweries to flourish and even more regulations on breweries that did not qualify as microbreweries.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Who is Karbach why does anybody care? I find it mildly humorous that InBev becomes the lightning rod for HBer's emotions. It's craft brewers suggesting inBev hurts craft, but they seem so quick to sell out. If you being play, its the craft brewers playing you. InBev is at least upfront with their intentions to dominate.

 

[Murphys_Law]

If Inbev "strikes again" and buys Reynolds, where will people get their hats?

 

[day_trippr]

So, "Hate the game, not the players"?

Cheers!

 

[jensek]

The deregulation was not deregulation of business. It was deregulation of what was permissible in a person's own home. Two completely different things.

In fact, this deregulation of what a person could do in their own home led directly to new regulations that allowed small microbreweries to flourish and even more regulations on breweries that did not qualify as microbreweries.

Again. You just said that deregulation led to the expansion of breweries. Legalizing homebrewing lowered barriers of getting into the business by allowing people to self educate on how to brew and it also allowed for experimentation. In addition to that states changed laws to allow brewpubs, on prem sales, self distribution, raised alcohol limits, lowered license fees etc....

 

[WaltStarr]

Again. You just said that deregulation led to the expansion of breweries. Legalizing homebrewing lowered barriers of getting into the business by allowing people to self educate on how to brew and it also allowed for experimentation. In addition to that states changed laws to allow brewpubs, on prem sales, self distribution, raised alcohol limits, lowered license fees etc....

Not true at all. To lower the barriers for entry into brewing, NEW REGULATIONS WERE INTRODUCED. To insure these extremely small breweries could still compete, EVEN MORE REGULATIONS WERE PUT IN PLACE ON LARGE BREWERIES.

A highly regulated environment was the only way for the craft brew industry to exist, else these small companies could have never competed!

On Edit: You also know you just admitted that new regulations were introduced to allow brewpubs, on premise sales, self distribution, raised alcohol limits, lowered license fees (for the smaller organizations). Not one bit of that was accomplished by repealing a single regulatory law, it was all accomplished via the introduction of many new regulatory laws.

The feds and states then introduced new regulations on the larger breweries.

 

[jensek]

Not true at all. To lower the barriers for entry into brewing, NEW REGULATIONS WERE INTRODUCED. To insure these extremely small breweries could still compete, EVEN MORE REGULATIONS WERE PUT IN PLACE ON LARGE BREWERIES.

A highly regulated environment was the only way for the craft brew industry to exist, else these small companies could have never competed!

Yet strangely the states with most liberal free market oriented "brewing" laws have the most breweries.

 

[WaltStarr]

Yet strangely the states with most liberal free market oriented "brewing" laws have the most breweries.

See my edits. That was accomplished by passing many new regulatory laws. Brewing is far more regulated today in every state in the nation than it was in 1978 when Carter signed the law making home brewing legal.

 

[jensek]

See my edits. That was accomplished by passing many new regulatory laws. Brewing is far more regulated today in every state in the nation than it was in 1978 when Carter signed the law making home brewing legal.

I'd love to read up on the new regs. Please provide a list.

 

[slym2none]

*munches popcorn*

 

[jensek]

*munches popcorn*

Tell me about it....

 

[dallasdb]

 

[WaltStarr]

I'd love to read up on the new regs. Please provide a list.

Sorry for not getting back to this quickly. This is a list of ONLY Federal regulations regarding specifically the production of beer. Keep in mind, there are many other Federal regulations regarding the production of alcohol that also pertain to the production of beer but are not specific to the production of beer. While not exhaustive of the regulations pertaining specifically to beer in any location as there are no state or local level regulations in this list, most are in place in their current form due to laws passed since 1978:

Title 27 → Chapter I → Subchapter A → Part 25

TITLE 27—Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms

CHAPTER I—ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO TAX AND TRADE BUREAU, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

SUBCHAPTER A—ALCOHOL

PART 25—BEER

rule
Subpart A—SCOPE OF REGULATIONS

§25.1
Production and removal of beer.
§25.2
Territorial extent.
§25.3
Forms prescribed.
§25.4
Related regulations.
§25.5
OMB control numbers assigned under the Paperwork Reduction Act.
§25.6
Delegations of the Administrator.
rule
Subpart B—DEFINITIONS

§25.11
Meaning of terms.
Standards for Beer
§25.15
Materials for the production of beer.
rule
Subpart C—LOCATION AND USE OF BREWERY

§25.21
Restrictions on location.
§25.22
Continuity of brewery.
§25.23
Restrictions on use.
§25.24
Storage of beer.
§25.25
Operation of a tavern on brewery premises.
rule
Subpart D—CONSTRUCTION AND EQUIPMENT

Construction
§25.31
Brewery buildings.
Equipment
§25.35
Tanks.
§25.36
Empty container storage.
rule
Subpart E—MEASUREMENT OF BEER

§25.41
Measuring system required.
§25.42
Testing of measuring devices.
rule
Subpart F—MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS

§25.51
Right of Entry and Examination.
§25.52
Variations from requirements.
Samples
§25.53
Submissions of samples of fermented products.
Formulas
§25.55
Formulas for fermented products.
§25.56
Filing of formulas.
§25.57
Formula information.
§25.58
New and superseding formulas.
rule
Subpart G—QUALIFICATION OF A BREWERY

Original Qualification
§25.61
General requirements for notice.
§25.62
Data for notice.
§25.63
Notice of registration.
§25.64
Maintenance of notice file.
§25.65
Power of attorney.
§25.66
Organizational documents.
§25.67
[Reserved]
§25.68
Description of brewery.
Changes After Original Qualification
§25.71
Amended or superseding notices.
§25.72
Change in proprietorship.
§25.73
Change in partnership.
§25.74
Change in stockholders.
§25.75
Change in officers and directors.
§25.76
[Reserved]
§25.77
Change in location.
§25.78
Change in premises.
Alternation of Operations
§25.81
Alternation of brewery and bonded or taxpaid wine premises.
Discontinuance of Business
§25.85
Notice of permanent discontinuance.
rule
Subpart H—BONDS AND CONSENTS OF SURETY

§25.91
Requirement for bond.
§25.92
Consent of surety.
§25.93
Penal sum of bond.
§25.94
Strengthening bonds.
§25.95
New bond.
§25.96
Superseding bond.
§25.97
Continuation certificate.
§25.98
Surety or security.
§25.99
Filing powers of attorney.
Disapproval or Termination of Bonds or Consents of Surety
§25.101
Disapproval of bonds or consents of surety.
§25.102
Termination of surety's liability.
§25.103
Notice by surety for relief from liability under bond.
§25.104
Termination of bonds.
§25.105
Release of collateral security.
rule
Subpart I—DEALER REGISTRATION AND RECORDKEEPING

§25.111
Definitions.
§25.112
Dealer registration.
§25.113
Amending the dealer registration.
§25.114
Dealer records.
rule
Subpart J—MARKS, BRANDS, AND LABELS

§25.141
Barrels and kegs.
§25.142
Bottles.
§25.143
Cases.
§25.144
Rebranding barrels and kegs.
§25.145
Tanks, vehicles, and vessels.
rule
Subpart K—TAX ON BEER

Liability for Tax
§25.151
Rate of tax.
§25.152
Reduced rate of tax for certain brewers.
§25.153
Persons liable for tax.
Determination of Tax
§25.155
Types of containers.
§25.156
Determination of tax on keg beer.
§25.157
Determination of tax on bottled beer.
§25.158
Tax computation for bottled beer.
§25.159
Time of tax determination and payment; offsets.
§25.160
Tax adjustment for brewers who produce more than 2,000,000 barrels of beer.
Preparation and Remittance of Tax Returns
§25.163
Method of tax payment.
§25.164
Quarterly and semimonthly returns.
§25.164a
Special September rule for taxes due by semimonthly return.
§25.165
Payment of tax by electronic fund transfer.
§25.166
Payment of reduced rate of tax.
§25.167
Notice of brewer to pay reduced rate of tax.
§25.168
Employer identification number.
§25.169
Application for employer identification number.
Prepayment of Tax
§25.173
Brewer in default.
§25.174
Bond not sufficient.
§25.175
Prepayment of tax.
Failure To Pay Tax
§25.177
Evasion of or failure to pay tax; failure to file a tax return.
rule
Subpart L—REMOVALS WITHOUT PAYMENT OF TAX

Transfer to Another Brewery of Same Ownership
§25.181
Eligibility.
§25.182
Kinds of containers.
§25.183
Determination of quantity transferred.
§25.184
Losses in transit.
§25.185
Mingling.
§25.186
Record of beer transferred.
Removal of Beer Unfit for Beverage Use
§25.191
General.
§25.192
Removal of sour or damaged beer.
Removals for Analysis, Research, Development or Testing
§25.195
Removals for analysis.
§25.196
Removals for research, development or testing.
Removal of Beer to a Contiguous Distilled Spirits Plant
§25.201
Removal by pipeline.
Exportation
§25.203
Exportation without payment of tax.
Beer For Personal or Family Use
§25.205
Production.
§25.206
Removal of beer.
§25.207
Removal from brewery for personal or family use.
rule
Subpart M—BEER RETURNED TO BREWERY

§25.211
Beer returned to brewery.
§25.212
Beer returned to brewery from which removed.
§25.213
Beer returned to brewery other than that from which removed.
rule
Subpart N—VOLUNTARY DESTRUCTION

§25.221
Voluntary destruction of beer.
§25.222
Notice of brewer.
§25.223
Destruction of beer off brewery premises.
§25.224
Refund or adjustment of tax.
§25.225
Destruction of taxpaid beer which was never removed from brewery premises.
rule
Subpart O—BEER PURCHASED FROM ANOTHER BREWER

§25.231
Finished beer.
§25.232
Basic permit.
rule
Subpart P—CEREAL BEVERAGE

§25.241
Production.
§25.242
Markings.
rule
Subpart Q—REMOVAL OF BREWER'S YEAST AND OTHER ARTICLES

§25.251
Authorized removals.
§25.252
Records.
rule
Subpart R—BEER CONCENTRATE

§25.261
General.
§25.262
Restrictions and conditions on processes of concentration and reconstitution.
§25.263
Production of concentrate and reconstitution of beer.
§25.264
Transfer between breweries.
rule
Subpart S—PILOT BREWING PLANTS

§25.271
General.
§25.272
Application.
§25.273
Action on application.
§25.274
Bond.
§25.276
Operations and records.
§25.277
Discontinuance of operations.
rule
Subpart T—REFUND OR ADJUSTMENT OF TAX OR RELIEF FROM LIABILITY

§25.281
General.
§25.282
Beer lost by fire, theft, casualty, or act of God.
§25.283
Claims for refund of tax.
§25.284
Adjustment of tax.
§25.285
Refund of beer tax excessively paid.
§25.286
Claims for remission of tax on beer lost in transit between breweries.
rule
Subpart U—RECORDS AND REPORTS

§25.291
Records.
§25.292
Daily records of operations.
§25.293
Record of ballings and alcohol content.
§25.294
Inventories.
§25.295
Record of unsalable beer.
§25.296
Record of beer concentrate.
§25.297
Report of Operations, Form 5130.9 or Form 5130.26.
§25.298
Excise tax return, Form 5000.24.
§25.299
Execution under penalties of perjury.
§25.300
Retention and preservation of records.
§25.301
Photographic copies of records.

If you wish to read further on these regulations, please visit this site with links to the specific wording of each regulation:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...a&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title27/27cfr25_main_02.tpl

 

[jensek]

Thanks. I was looking for the new regulations that were introduced.

On Edit: You also know you just admitted that new regulations were introduced to allow brewpubs, on premise sales, self distribution, raised alcohol limits, lowered license fees (for the smaller organizations). Not one bit of that was accomplished by repealing a single regulatory law, it was all accomplished via the introduction of many new regulatory laws.

Somehow missed the above. Passing/revising/repealing a law that promotes free competition and free market forces is deregulation. We are talking past each other. I shouldn't drink and read.