I'm an idiot - can you help save this batch?

[zswire]

Okay, so I feel stupid posting this but I need your help.

I picked up an American Amber Ale All Grain kit from Northern Brewer and brewed today. I thought I bought a 10 gallon kit, but realized after it was only a 5 gallon kit.

I thought the amount of grain seemed small but I haven't brewed in a year and didn't question it further.

I finished the batch and have 10 gallons split between 2 carboys. I grabbed the envelope with yeast from the fridge and realized there was only one in there. Thus, I split it between the two.

Is this complete trash? Or, is there anything I can do?

 

[Ole_Smoky]

Hmmmm. What was your OG. Only downside I can think of is it'll probably be weak/watery beer.

 

[Aonghus]

Use both batches as yeast starter, save the yeast from one batch for future brews and make a monster beer with the other. Then go forth and sin no more!

 

[zswire]

Hmmmm. What was your OG. Only downside I can think of is it'll probably be weak/watery beer.

That's what I was thinking. I guess I can bottle it and see. Just not sure it's worth the effort/time or if I should scrap it and start over.

It was 1.03 and I should have been concerned then. Ugh, feel like I wasted the day. I don't get to brew often as I have three young kids. I know better, I just had friends and their kids over and I wasn't paying attention.

 

[zswire]

@aonghus Good call. I'm still new to all grain and learning. This was my sixth batch. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Ole_Smoky]

Yah that's going to be like a 2.5% beer. It depends what you like to drink but I don't know if I'd be happy with that. I wonder about maybe boiling some super concentrated dme wort and adding it. It would up your gravity and increase flavor. I have no idea if it's to late or how much to use though. Can't hurt to try, it can't hurt the beer any worse then it is.

 

[aStoutObserver]

Any liquid or dry malt you could boil and top them off with? Then pitch another pack

 

[zswire]

Any liquid or dry malt you could boil and top them off with? Then pitch another pack

Yah that's going to be like a 2.5% beer. It depends what you like to drink but I don't know if I'd be happy with that. I wonder about maybe boiling some super concentrated dme wort and adding it. It would up your gravity and increase flavor. I have no idea if it's to late or how much to use though. Can't hurt to try, it can't hurt the beer any worse then it is.

Thanks @aStoutObserver and @Ole_Smoky - I may try that. Or, I may start over. Going to sleep on it and see. I appreciate the advice.

 

[joshesmusica]

i would personally attempt to make basically a stronger version of your beer. it will be much easier to do if you have a recipe calculator of course. according to my (or beersmith's) calculations, you would need 3 gallons of 1.135 beer in order to get that up to what it should've been (1.054?). then you are able to split that, 1.5 gallons in each carboy, because i calculated it for 10 gallons of 1.030.
the most difficult thing about going this route is that it's gonna mess with your bitterness (as if it wasn't already). so you could do something like this:
60 min boil:
4lbs amber dry malt extract - 60 min
1oz Perle hops - 60 min
1lb table sugar - 5 min
4lbs amber dme - flameout (bring wort temp down to 180F)
1oz Cascade hops - steep/whirlpool for 20-30 mins

This should yield you:
3 Gallons
OG 1.131
IBU 39

I would go with something like a super high gravity yeast, just in case. You probably would be fine just pitching another pack each of US-05, and maybe others can chime in on that part of it. When you pour 1.5 gallons into each carboy, it should get you up to about a 1.053 OG for your beer.

This suggestion is simply going off of the numbers, I've never had any experience trying to salvage a beer in this way. You will get varied opinions on here about saving beer. Some people will say to just dump it (they're idiots), some people will say don't try to polish a turd but don't dump it (aka drink it as is), and some people will say go for it, what have you got to lose!? I'm part of that last camp. If i were in the situation, I would definitely try something.

 

[zswire]

Thanks for the advice and specific instructions. I'm going to go for it and give your recommendation a try. I agree with your approach, I'm a go for it person myself. I was just disappointed yesterday after finishing and realizing what I'd done. Hopefully, it will come out okay!

 

[BigPerm]

Before you go nuts and start fixing a problem you aren't sure exists, try waiting it out. What's done is done, and theres no real hurry to do anything. A dilute amber ale may in fact turn out to be a nice bitter of sorts. Let this batch finish up and then taste it. If its not to your liking, try some of the above suggestions (the blending idea is the best one IMO. Adding malt extract will screw with your balance). It may turn out to be a nice drinkable session ale.

Hope it works out for you. Cheers!

 

[joshesmusica]

Before you go nuts and start fixing a problem you aren't sure exists, try waiting it out. What's done is done, and theres no real hurry to do anything. A dilute amber ale may in fact turn out to be a nice bitter of sorts. Let this batch finish up and then taste it. If its not to your liking, try some of the above suggestions (the blending idea is the best one IMO. Adding malt extract will screw with your balance). It may turn out to be a nice drinkable session ale.

Hope it works out for you. Cheers!

maybe some people don't consider 2.5% abv a problem, but if it was me, i most certainly would! haha

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

Adding malt extract will screw with your balance!

Uhm....


What balance? It was balanced for 5 gallons, he made 10...

 

[vincentAlpha]

@joshesmusica I would be more worried about the taste balance, alcohol content for me is a side effect not a goal of brewing. If I wanted to get drunk I'd just do it with liquor cause beer doesn't affect me that much. If the kit was set up for that much higher gravity than he got his hop utilization numbers are going to be interesting to say the least.

@zswire I think before you start messing around there are a couple things you should do.
1. Grab a sample, it'll probably not taste great cause of the yeast being in full force but try and find out if there is anything to work with flavour wise. My bet is that it'll likely be thin and bitter but 1.03 isn't that bad of a starting gravity, might have enough flavour since you must have sparged lots to get to a 10G batch.
2. If you are not happy with how things are in the sample(and really want to experiment) then plug in the recipe (as it was supposed to be for 5G) into a calculator (beersmith, brewer's friend, etc.) then crank the volume numbers up to the volume you used and see how things changed. If you can live with it I'd say let it ride, if not try the next bit.

If you still want to muck with it then add something like ~4lbs of DME or LME to the calculator as a 'late boil addition' (I know brewer's friend does this, pretty sure beer smith does too) plus a couple gallons (or whatever space you have to spare in the fermenters) as it'll probably be the closest option to the best way to go and won't change hop utilization too much. If the numbers look about right for a ~10G/12G batch then (scale the extract addition until it does if not) and make up a batch of wort to split between the fermenters (as large as you can go without killing the headspace). You won't need to boil long, just long enough to hit hotbreak/desired volume. Obviously cool as needed and I would suggest more yeast if you don't have visible krausen since you'll be bumping the gravity up and one pack would likely be an underpitch here if the yeast were still building up.

Keep in mind the above is one way to bring this up somewhat to how it was supposed to be but (for me anyway) at the end of the day a not-great beer is still better than none when you don't have time to brew a replacement. Worse case you don't want to muck with adding more wort (or can't due to volume issues) you can always play with dry hopping, not going to be to style but it is already in new territory anyway.

 

[joshesmusica]

@joshesmusica I would be more worried about the taste balance, alcohol content for me is a side effect not a goal of brewing. If I wanted to get drunk I'd just do it with liquor cause beer doesn't affect me that much. If the kit was set up for that much higher gravity than he got his hop utilization numbers are going to be interesting to say the least.

the taste balance is already gonna be off. we know that. he diluted 5 gallons of wort with 5 gallons of something that is likely barely wort. most people that brew are worried about alcohol content hence why they go through the effort of building a recipe with a specific OG. hence why people brew 9+% beers.
what kind of beer are you brewing that it doesn't affect you? i'd say you should start worrying more about abv if beer isn't doing anything for you.

1. Grab a sample, it'll probably not taste great cause of the yeast being in full force but try and find out if there is anything to work with flavour wise. My bet is that it'll likely be thin and bitter but 1.03 isn't that bad of a starting gravity, might have enough flavour since you must have sparged lots to get to a 10G batch.

if he was gonna do this, he should at least wait until it's finished fermenting. at this point he's not gonna know too much about the final taste. as you said there will be tons of yeast still there, and more off-flavors that probably haven't cleaned up yet.
if he wants an idea of what it's gonna taste like he should go buy a 12oz bottle of amber ale, fill up 60% of the glass with it, then make the other 40% water (not 50/50 in order to make up for that fact that he didn't simply dilute down with water).

If you still want to muck with it then add something like ~4lbs of DME or LME to the calculator as a 'late boil addition' (I know brewer's friend does this, pretty sure beer smith does too) plus a couple gallons (or whatever space you have to spare in the fermenters) as it'll probably be the closest option to the best way to go and won't change hop utilization too much. If the numbers look about right for a ~10G/12G batch then (scale the extract addition until it does if not) and make up a batch of wort to split between the fermenters (as large as you can go without killing the headspace). You won't need to boil long, just long enough to hit hotbreak/desired volume.

you talk about worrying about the taste balance of the beer and then suggest adding hopless beer into it. that will definitely mess with the taste balance of the beer! haha

in the end the only thing different between your suggestion and mine is that i ran all the numbers through beersmith for him and put up a recipe that he could use to dilute the beer with. of course that was taking for granted that he actually had 1.5 gal space left in each fermenter, but that's easily solved by simply making enough room by siphoning out some of the finished beer. and then i also suggested making a completely new beer, meaning it has the hops profile of the original (or at least close to it) so that it should get him close to the intended "taste balance" of the original recipe.

 

[vincentAlpha]

the taste balance is already gonna be off. we know that. he diluted 5 gallons of wort with 5 gallons of something that is likely barely wort. most people that brew are worried about alcohol content hence why they go through the effort of building a recipe with a specific OG. hence why people brew 9+% beers.
what kind of beer are you brewing that it doesn't affect you? i'd say you should start worrying more about abv if beer isn't doing anything for you.

I usually brew 5-7%ABV beer, but seriously 3+ pints in a row and while I can't say as I'd consider driving (though plenty of people do....) it doesn't impair me to any great extent. As to the 9+% beer, for most people getting drunk isn't an end goal, the ABV adds to the flavour of the beer. If getting drunk was the end goal then homebrewing is not the most direct route to go to say the least. I suppose a better way to put it is, if something is going to go wrong with my batch the ABV is the last thing I'd be concerned with, not the first.
As for waiting till primary is done to try as sample... he seemed to be in a hurry and off flavours are not going to disappear in the few days once the bulk of primary is done but fair enough it will be closer to the final product come end of primary as it will be quite a bit less yeasty.
As for why I didn't enter the numbers myself, it is because I didn't have any idea what his recipe included or how he mashed in, etc. I didn't add more hops as I'm sure the bitterness is going to be out of whack to begin with and he is going to want more maltyness to try to even things out, though if he has an oz or two of hops on hand that fit the original then a late addition would be useful but an amber isn't exactly a hop forward style to begin with. At the end of the day this is gonna be about him trying to fix his batch if he isn't happy with it, personally I'd just let it ride more likely than not.

Also, I suppose another worry could be tannin extraction. I'd never worry about it too much but 10+G of wort through a 5G batch's worth of grain could be a little on the astringent side of things. Not sure how you'd cover that one up.

 

[BigPerm]

Uhm....

What balance? It was balanced for 5 gallons, he made 10...

The malt/hop balance remains the same. Theres just more water. Its a diluted version of a complete recipe. Adding more malt (like malt extract) puts this balance further out. He actually could have a balanced, drinkable low abv beer.

the taste balance is already gonna be off. we know that. he diluted 5 gallons of wort with 5 gallons of something that is likely barely wort. most people that brew are worried about alcohol content hence why they go through the effort of building a recipe with a specific OG. hence why people brew 9+% beers.

maybe some people don't consider 2.5% abv a problem, but if it was me, i most certainly would! haha

To each their own, but I think the OP has a much better chance at a drinkable beer by leaving it alone. He made a mistake, so its already not what he wants. If it tastes good, no reason to waste further time and money. If it doesn't end up being something he wants to drink, then blending with a stronger beer is a fine option, but if it were me, I'd let the fermentation finish and taste it before trying to "fix" it before you know what you have.

I'm not necessarily suggesting its going to be the greatest beer he's ever made, but to suggest that a 2.5% potential abv beer is "barely wort" is a bit short-sighted.

OP - let us know what you end up doing. Hope it works out.

 

[peterj]

i would personally attempt to make basically a stronger version of your beer. it will be much easier to do if you have a recipe calculator of course. according to my (or beersmith's) calculations, you would need 3 gallons of 1.135 beer in order to get that up to what it should've been (1.054?). then you are able to split that, 1.5 gallons in each carboy, because i calculated it for 10 gallons of 1.030.
the most difficult thing about going this route is that it's gonna mess with your bitterness (as if it wasn't already). so you could do something like this:
60 min boil:
4lbs amber dry malt extract - 60 min
1oz Perle hops - 60 min
1lb table sugar - 5 min
4lbs amber dme - flameout (bring wort temp down to 180F)
1oz Cascade hops - steep/whirlpool for 20-30 mins

This should yield you:
3 Gallons
OG 1.131
IBU 39

I would go with something like a super high gravity yeast, just in case. You probably would be fine just pitching another pack each of US-05, and maybe others can chime in on that part of it. When you pour 1.5 gallons into each carboy, it should get you up to about a 1.053 OG for your beer.

This suggestion is simply going off of the numbers, I've never had any experience trying to salvage a beer in this way. You will get varied opinions on here about saving beer. Some people will say to just dump it (they're idiots), some people will say don't try to polish a turd but don't dump it (aka drink it as is), and some people will say go for it, what have you got to lose!? I'm part of that last camp. If i were in the situation, I would definitely try something.

I think this ^^ would be your best bet if you want to mess with it.

I didn't add more hops as I'm sure the bitterness is going to be out of whack to begin with and he is going to want more maltyness to try to even things out, though if he has an oz or two of hops on hand that fit the original then a late addition would be useful but an amber isn't exactly a hop forward style to begin with. At the end of the day this is gonna be about him trying to fix his batch if he isn't happy with it, personally I'd just let it ride more likely than not.

Also, I suppose another worry could be tannin extraction. I'd never worry about it too much but 10+G of wort through a 5G batch's worth of grain could be a little on the astringent side of things. Not sure how you'd cover that one up.

I don't think being too bitter is going to be the problem here at all. I'm guessing you're talking about because the gravity was lower, he might have gotten more hop utilization. But, the fact that he diluted it by a factor of two is going to have a much bigger impact on the hops. The actual sugar content isn't what affects utilization, it's the amount of proteins, grain dust, etc. you're getting from the grain. Since he used the same amount of grain as the original recipe I would venture to say the utilization would be about the same as was intended, but then divided by 2 because of the extra volume.

Also, I'm not sure why people are suggesting more yeast. Half a pack of dry yeast in 5 gallons of 1.030 wort is pretty much right on. And those are basically two huge 5 gallon starters, so there should be more than enough yeast to handle the added high gravity wort if that's the route you go.

Good luck with it!

 

[vincentAlpha]

I don't think being too bitter is going to be the problem here at all. I'm guessing you're talking about because the gravity was lower, he might have gotten more hop utilization.

You're completely right, I've clearly not had enough coffee; for some reason in my head I was forgetting that the hop addition would be halved as well. Yea the OP ought to disregard my not adding hops and go with a similar hop schedule as the original recipe if he can. Given that much, if he has the room the batch can turn out half decent since it is more about adding extra wort and not trying to mask anything.

 

[burninator]

Before you go nuts and start fixing a problem you aren't sure exists, try waiting it out. What's done is done, and theres no real hurry to do anything. A dilute amber ale may in fact turn out to be a nice bitter of sorts. Let this batch finish up and then taste it. If its not to your liking, try some of the above suggestions (the blending idea is the best one IMO. Adding malt extract will screw with your balance). It may turn out to be a nice drinkable session ale.

Hope it works out for you. Cheers!

This is my thought, as well. You made a table amber, or an American bitter, or a session ale. I don't know. You're balance should still be in effect, as everything is halved. It won't be the beer you intended to brew, but it'll still beat the socks off of Michelob Ultra.

 

[joshesmusica]

I'm not necessarily suggesting its going to be the greatest beer he's ever made, but to suggest that a 2.5% potential abv beer is "barely wort" is a bit short-sighted.

i never said the 2.5% is barely wort, i said what he was diluting it with in the end was barely wort.

not that it matters, as you said, to each his own. which is basically what i even prefaced my suggestion with, if you go back and read it.

 

[wilserbrewer]

A pound or two of LME added straight to the carboy within a day or so couldn't hurt IMO. Do you have a LHBS that you could source some LME or DME. If it makes you feel bette you could pasteurize it with just enough water to make it workable....just heat to 170-180 or so.

That's what I would do. Adding additional fermentables before the kreusen falls shouldn't be a big deal. I wouldn't even bother with more yeast....it should be fermenting strong in a day or two and be ready to munch more fermentables.

 

[drunkEnough4U]

Honestly just to get a little more booze from it and because I'd be pretty damn crestfallen and lazy by then I would just toss in a pound of honey into one or each and hope for the best. Maybe do one with a fair amont of sugar or honey and then blend the two to your liking at bottling?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Honestly just to get a little more booze from it and because I'd be pretty damn crestfallen and lazy by then I would just toss in a pound of honey into one or each and hope for the best. Maybe do one with a fair amont of sugar or honey and then blend the two to your liking at bottling?

IME honey or sugar will dry the heck out of an already light beer....even more watery.

Idk

 

[drunkEnough4U]

IME honey or sugar will dry the heck out of an already light beer....even more watery.

Idk

Defintely will dry it out, that's why I was sorta leaning towards doing it to a single beer and then blending to his personal taste when bottling. I agree with some DME or something as well, just throwing some options out there.

 

[Singletrack]

When you make a mistake, you drink the mistake, That's how you learn -- and how you make sure you remember what you learned. After suffering a few pints of near-beer, blending makes sense to me. Fun to brew a super high gravity beer too.

 

[Hoppity]

Probably too late to take it out and boil it down with a few exploratory hop and malt additions, but I might have tried that if so challenged.

 

[joshesmusica]

When you make a mistake, you drink the mistake, That's how you learn -- and how you make sure you remember what you learned. After suffering a few pints of near-beer, blending makes sense to me. Fun to brew a super high gravity beer too.

somebody else seems to have had an ******* for a father. sounds exactly like something my dad would have said when i was a kid.

that sounds like a horrible way to learn a lesson. i am completely capable of learning from a mistake without needing to suffer through 10 gallons of consequences, and i'm sure i'm no anomaly. after going through the effort of trying to fix this one, i'm sure he will be able to remember that he learned to always check how many gallons he should be aiming for in the future.

 

[Singletrack]

somebody else seems to have had an ******* for a father. sounds exactly like something my dad would have said when i was a kid.

that sounds like a horrible way to learn a lesson. i am completely capable of learning from a mistake without needing to suffer through 10 gallons of consequences, and i'm sure i'm no anomaly. after going through the effort of trying to fix this one, i'm sure he will be able to remember that he learned to always check how many gallons he should be aiming for in the future.

Guess you missed the part where I facetiously suggested he force himself to drink only a few pints of his near beer before blending to fix it. Sorry about your father. Mine had a sense of humor, and I miss him.

 

[drunkEnough4U]

Wow....... this got sort of depressing

 

[dwhite60]

I'd let it ride until it's done fermenting. Then taste a sample.
May not have the body or ABV you wanted but it will probably
still be o'kay beer.

You'll be able to drink more to get the same buzz level, if
that's important to you. Since you'll be drinking more it should
not take long to get through it.

You could steep up a little black patent malt and add it. Then
call it a mild.

Stuff like this happens. After all the years I've brewed it's amazing
what idiocy I can manage to bring to the surface.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[drunkEnough4U]

So any updates on this brew?

 

[zswire]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the great feedback and ideas. As I had mentioned earlier, I decided to try and 'fix it'.

I went to the homebrew shop, purchased the ingredients and planned to brew the next evening. Unfortunately, a family emergency came up preventing me from getting back to it for 2 weeks.

So, instead I decided to give it a try. It wasn't good. It was weak and I was tired and frustrated with other things going on in life, so I dumped it.

I now have a bunch of DME that I don't plan to use. Oh well. It was a good thought and I appreciate the time put into suggestions on how to salvage that batch.

I just got back from a new homebrew shop in San Dimas and I've picked up ingredients for 10 gallons (I triple checked this time). I'll be brewing Saturday morning in Pasadena with some friends who'll be smoking meats. Looking forward to getting it right this time.

Thanks again for all the advice. I realized how much of a novice I am. I've got a ton to learn.

Cheers!

Zack

 

[joshesmusica]

it can only go up from here! good luck!