After 5 hours in line in the California sun, a high life would taste amazing, no wonder there's hype...
What?? You guys didn't at least have a party while you were waiting in line? That's what camelbacks are for!!
After 5 hours in line in the California sun, a high life would taste amazing, no wonder there's hype...
seems ridiculous.
Russian River has a better marketing strategy than beer making skills. Pliny the Elder however, is VERY good and I would order it before PTY any day!
I'm starting to believe this is a very good beer with a amazingly stupid amount of hype.
It's enough already. My buddy flew from here on the east coast all the way out there for a b-day west coast brewery tour. I think he waited 2 hours in line. That's about as long as I would wait, and even that's stretching it. He said it was amazing, but I think he was under the hype spell.
He even brought back some PTE, and while it's a well crafted and smooth DIPA, I've had as good or better for my tastes.
Hate to sound biased, but give me some Hill Farmstead any and everyday over anything else I've tried. That place is worth every bit of hype. I waited 2 hours last time I was up there, but at least I was able to get tasters of whatever I wanted while waiting, and I walked away with growlers of different beers. It's just a popular place no matter what they have on tap, not just for 2 weeks of the year.
Vermont is the best kept secret for great beer. There, I've said it. Now everyone knows where to get the best beer in the world right now. Just don't tell anyone I said it!!
Philly is one of the chosen to receive the much discussed PTY. I checked around to see if any pubs within my circle of reach was pouring the brew. Two places indicated they kicked their kegs within 25 minutes of tapping. Some places reported PTY fans started a line 4 hours before the bars opened in order to ensure a glass. Last Wednesday a bar within walking distance of my office was tapping a keg at 3:30pm. I made my way over at about 3:50 and there was no line. The bar was full, but not packed. I easily found an empty stool and the barmaid asked my preference. I said I'd like a Pliny if it's still available. She returned with an 8 ounce pour and asked for $10! I expected a ridiculous price but even that caught me off guard. Another patron asked for one right after me but the keg was kicked, the lady behind the bar said I grabbed the last one!
It was ok, but no where near became my favorite IPA. I LOVE IPA's! To me it tasted caramel-ish, sweeter than I expected. Hops were prominent of course, but not in a crisp, clean way. Without the hoopla, and if I tried it out of curiosity among other beers, I would have tasted it and moved on. Russian River has a better marketing strategy than beer making skills. Pliny the Elder however, is VERY good and I would order it before PTY any day!
I get what you are saying, but you don't think the breweries share any blame? Maybe not in the very beginning, but after a beer gets hyped, they encourage it by having these once a year releases like Dark Lord Day, Hunahpu Day and Pliney the Younger with big festivals around it.No offense, but you live in New Hampshire...so don't assume that the RR pub is not a popular place the other 50 weeks of the year, because that'd be flat wrong. It also is a place you can get fantastic beers of many different styles in tasters, full pours, and growlers. Sure, some sour beers are off limits for growlers, but I think that's understandable.
I also don't know the pub you referred too, but I'm sure it's great as well.
You contributed post #46 to exactly the kind of threads that "hype" this and other beers.
The point for those of you who are bothered by the hype is to stop hyping. Whether it's facebook, instagram, HBT, Twitter, text messaging, email, or bragging...hype begins and ends with consumers the vast majority of the time.
RR did little else other then announce the release, which any retailer is entitled to do. The news vans were there because of the folks like those I met that flew in from Chicago, willing to fly across the country, wait in line for hours on end in a deluge, just to get a taste. I see just as much hype for dark lord every year, but I don't hate on 3Floyds for the fact I'll probably never get to taste that beer...I just seek out the goods (like you with HF) where I have access to them.
The hype has nothing to do with the beer really, and everything to do with people who would start threads on HBT and nurse them along strategically while villifying a brewer for not going into debt so they can have easier access to that brewers beers.
I'm a little tired of reading the RR bashing, since so much of it seems to be driven by little more then sour grapes.
I get what you are saying, but you don't think the breweries share any blame? Maybe not in the very beginning, but after a beer gets hyped, they encourage it by having these once a year releases like Dark Lord Day, Hunahpu Day and Pliney the Younger with big festivals around it.
No offense, but you live in New Hampshire...so don't assume that the RR pub is not a popular place the other 50 weeks of the year, because that'd be flat wrong. It also is a place you can get fantastic beers of many different styles in tasters, full pours, and growlers. Sure, some sour beers are off limits for growlers, but I think that's understandable.
I also don't know the pub you referred too, but I'm sure it's great as well.
You contributed post #46 to exactly the kind of threads that "hype" this and other beers.
The point for those of you who are bothered by the hype is to stop hyping. Whether it's facebook, instagram, HBT, Twitter, text messaging, email, or bragging...hype begins and ends with consumers the vast majority of the time.
RR did little else other then announce the release, which any retailer is entitled to do. The news vans were there because of the folks like those I met that flew in from Chicago, willing to fly across the country, wait in line for hours on end in a deluge, just to get a taste. I see just as much hype for dark lord every year, but I don't hate on 3Floyds for the fact I'll probably never get to taste that beer...I just seek out the goods (like you with HF) where I have access to them.
The hype has nothing to do with the beer really, and everything to do with people who would start threads on HBT and nurse them along strategically while villifying a brewer for not going into debt so they can have easier access to that brewers beers.
I'm a little tired of reading the RR bashing, since so much of it seems to be driven by little more then sour grapes.
You seem very passionate about this. You won't see me complaining that RR (or anyone) should make more beer. Of course I'd like to try more of their beer, but they made a calculated, financial decision to release it the way they did. You were saying it was all our fault for over hyping the beer and I don't think that's the entire story.What's the alternative? NOT making the beer, or making it more? The first solves nothing...the second just takes away capacity that RR already doesn't have.
The complaints on this thread show that people are already frustrated they can't get Pliny or Pig, so how's a beer that requires smaller batches (because of the grainbill and MT size) and more time in the fermenter (because of the extra dry-hopping), and massive amounts of grain and hard to get hops (commercial brewers are having a hell of a time getting simcoe) going to fix the complaints aired here?
I'm not going to get into it because the mere suggestion pisses me off to no end, but I will simply say this: It is the epitome of "sense of entitlement" for a consumer to bad mouth a brewer for NOT TAKING ON DEBT so that consumer can have easier access to a product.
It's important to note 3 things here: 1) The retailer didn't put on a special festival. They merely announced the release-even though they absolutely have the right to pump the beer all they like...in this case they don't. 2) While the beer is very fairly priced in the pub, the release and the tourism is thought to bring a tremendous amount of money into the local economy 3)Sour grapes that we can't get a beer wreaks of "first world problems".
It just comes off as sour grapes to me. I am very familiar with Vinnie and Natalie, and they absolutely are all about making great beer. Maybe people wish they would make more so it was more readily available, but they already make 15k+ bbls a year, and they're not slaves...they are free market entrepreneurs.
I'm not completely blind either...I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.
In the end, we consumers are not entitled to demand a brewer take on financial risk for our edification. If the brewer is happy with his business as is, he has no obligation beyond making sure the product he offers for sale is as advertised: A quality craft beer.
JMHO...
What's the alternative? NOT making the beer, or making it more? The first solves nothing...the second just takes away capacity that RR already doesn't have.
The complaints on this thread show that people are already frustrated they can't get Pliny or Pig, so how's a beer that requires smaller batches (because of the grainbill and MT size) and more time in the fermenter (because of the extra dry-hopping), and massive amounts of grain and hard to get hops (commercial brewers are having a hell of a time getting simcoe) going to fix the complaints aired here?
I'm not going to get into it because the mere suggestion pisses me off to no end, but I will simply say this: It is the epitome of "sense of entitlement" for a consumer to bad mouth a brewer for NOT TAKING ON DEBT so that consumer can have easier access to a product.
It's important to note 3 things here: 1) The retailer didn't put on a special festival. They merely announced the release-even though they absolutely have the right to pump the beer all they like...in this case they don't. 2) While the beer is very fairly priced in the pub, the release and the tourism is thought to bring a tremendous amount of money into the local economy 3)Sour grapes that we can't get a beer wreaks of "first world problems".
It just comes off as sour grapes to me. I am very familiar with Vinnie and Natalie, and they absolutely are all about making great beer. Maybe people wish they would make more so it was more readily available, but they already make 15k+ bbls a year, and they're not slaves...they are free market entrepreneurs.
I'm not completely blind either...I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.
In the end, we consumers are not entitled to demand a brewer take on financial risk for our edification. If the brewer is happy with his business as is, he has no obligation beyond making sure the product he offers for sale is as advertised: A quality craft beer.
JMHO...
If I owned a brewery, I would be pissed if someone had to wait 5 hours to have a glass of my beer. There's got to be a better way to get everyone a glass in a reasonable amount of time. It's only beer.
I find fault in how widely the beer is distributed when it's in short supply in the completely local (as in, same zip code) area. But it's obvious they're getting intense pressure from those accounts to do so. They have already pulled out of the Washington market to alleviate this problem, so it's not like they're not trying.
You seem very passionate about this. You won't see me complaining that RR (or anyone) should make more beer. Of course I'd like to try more of their beer, but they made a calculated, financial decision to release it the way they did. You were saying it was all our fault for over hyping the beer and I don't think that's the entire story.
Cigar City realized that instead of making another batch of beer (and probably taking on more debt as you mention), they could sell $50 tickets for the opportunity to purchase their beer and make $175k extra that way. Not counting the other beer and food sales for the day. Of course their decision backfired, but most don't.
I can relate. I feel the same way especially about movies. I've said about Pliny the Elder on this site before and Pliny the Younger on this THREAD specifically, it's just beer. Folks need to judge it on it's merit, not on any hype surrounding it.The only thing that bothers me about hype is that it skews my own personal expectations. Any movie that I hear is the best thing ever, 9/10 times it's a big disappointment because it never lived up to expectations. If I watch it again later on I'll realize it's pretty OK. I'm just a sucker product of consumerism and capitalism though. Make it expensive and give it a false rarity and I'll probably try it. Cost means it's better, right?
I wouldn't wait for an hour for any beer. 5+ hours if just insane.
I read something about RR a few months ago that kind of stuck in my brain. It was about the owners and the quote was, "We don't like debt and we don't like investors."
In my view, this mindset really limits your business. Taking on debt is how businesses grow. I read "The Lagunitas Story" by Tony Magee and that man knows how to run a business. All he did was take on debt, use it to grow the brewery and the brand, and build his business. As a result, Lagunitas is one of the most advanced (equipment-wise) and largest craft breweries in the US. Their business is booming and they can barely make enough beer. They've opened a second brewery in Chicago and they just keep growing.
RR, on the other hand, makes amazing beer and they can't make enough to meet demand. There is a huge market share that they're missing out on because they have a notion that "debt is bad".
When is the last time you heard of a successful business pulling out of a market because they couldn't meet demand? It doesn't sound like a terribly well-run business to me. They are obviously much better brewers than they are business people.
I have a store / restaurant / wholesaler and would like to carry your beer. How can I do that?
We are currently not able to accept any new accounts or distributors at this time. We are having a difficult time keeping up with demand as it is! There are certainly worse problems to have ;-) Both breweries are at capacity now and we are planning to stay the course for a while - pay off some bills, focus on beer quality, and keep the investors happy!
Are you planning to expand your brewery to meet such high demand?
We have been growing organically each year since we opened and have mostly reached capacity at both breweries. At this time, we have no plans for any major expansions. Our focus is on quality not quantity!
When is the last time you heard of a successful business pulling out of a market because they couldn't meet demand? It doesn't sound like a terribly well-run business to me. They are obviously much better brewers than they are business people.
I do not believe they said they don't like investors. Maybe you should cite your source.
As far as the rest of it, a business can be perfectly healthy growing organically and staying away from debt. I work in finance. Trust me when I say a business with no debt on it's balance sheet is healthier then the same sized business carrying debt. Whats with your obsession on insisting they take on debt? Do that for yourself if you're comfortable, this is America, and business owners get to do things the way they see fit.
Well, I was close. The quote was, "We don't want partners and we don't like debt."
http://www.greensheet.com/emagazine.php?story_id=3496
Obsession is an awful strong word. I made one post where I said they could grow their business with debt and so now I have an "obsession" and I "insist they take on debt". That's quite a leap you've made there.
Whenever a person spends way more resources (money, time or effort) than they should have, they defend their actions with superlatives to convince you (and themselves) that it was all worth it.
People who spent hours waiting in line for a half pint of expensive beer in this thread all state it was like tasting nectar of the Gods when they finally got a taste.
People who stumbled upon an open tap, and tried under typical conditions (no waiting) state it's just a tasty beer, but nothing that justifies sacrificing hours in line.
'jus sayin'...
Most over hyped beer ever. It's good, but I refuse to ever wait in line for it. I'd rather grab a fresh Simtra at my local bottle shop.
I have yet to try PtY or PtE for that matter. But I don't understand how in the world people wait in lines for so long for a BEER. It's BEER. You're going to ingest it and piss it out an hour later.
I know a few people in my extended family (actually SWMBO's side) that have driven up to The Alchemist for Heady Topper, only to be told Heady Topper was sold-out. It's a 5-HOUR RIDE from Connecticut! Idiots.
I read something about RR a few months ago that kind of stuck in my brain. It was about the owners and the quote was, "We don't like debt and we don't like investors."
In my view, this mindset really limits your business. Taking on debt is how businesses grow. I read "The Lagunitas Story" by Tony Magee and that man knows how to run a business. All he did was take on debt, use it to grow the brewery and the brand, and build his business. As a result, Lagunitas is one of the most advanced (equipment-wise) and largest craft breweries in the US. Their business is booming and they can barely make enough beer. They've opened a second brewery in Chicago and they just keep growing.
RR, on the other hand, makes amazing beer and they can't make enough to meet demand. There is a huge market share that they're missing out on because they have a notion that "debt is bad".
When is the last time you heard of a successful business pulling out of a market because they couldn't meet demand? It doesn't sound like a terribly well-run business to me. They are obviously much better brewers than they are business people.
I know a few people in my extended family (actually SWMBO's side) that have driven up to The Alchemist for Heady Topper, only to be told Heady Topper was sold-out. It's a 5-HOUR RIDE from Connecticut! Idiots.
They could've gone to Blackback pub right in town and probably had it on tap along with some Hill Farmstead and Lawson's.
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