How-to's, tips, hints. give me your knowledge

[joegibs]

I've been brewing beer for a few years now, and have gotten that down fairly well. Last year I made a wine kit for my mother, a petite sirah, and after aging in the bottle for about 6 months, we've cracked a couple bottles to give it a shot. Disclaimer: I don't know **** about wine, my mother's the wine queen. She says it's too sweet, and it shouldn't be.

So, going back to my beer background, I had problems with that in my early days, and I tracked it down to not fully fermenting, mostly directed at the yeast. As soon as I started using liquid yeast and doing a yeast starter, never had that problem again. Also, with bigger beers like a belgian trippel, pitching more yeast half way through the required fermenting time was necessary to re-activate the fermenting process.

So, thinking to myself, wine takes longer to ferment than your average beer, like the trippel that I did, and maybe a big heavy red wine kit would benefit from being reactivated with another dose of yeast, hopefully helping with the whole "too sweet" issue we seem to have had with our first wine kit.

All the wine kits i've looked at have a dry yeast packet. Is there even liquid yeast available for wine kits?

Thanks for sharing your brains

 

[Yooper]

You can buy liquid yeast, but remember that once you rehydrate a dry wine yeast, it is now a liquid yeast- so there is nothing intrinsincally better about liquid vs true.

What was the final FG? Most wine kits for dry wines will finish at .990 or so- 0 residual sugar- so the problem is probably not at all a yeast issue.

Most wine kits will finish dry in 5-7 days, so it doesn't take long at all for fermentation.

Some of the cheaper kits are a bit sweet tasting to me, even if they ferment dry. It's because they don't have depth of complex flavors like oak and they use far more "grape concentrate" than actual wine grape kits.

With kits, you really do get what you pay for. A $75 kit will make a wine like "two buck chuck", or like a $3-$4 bottle of wine. A $180 kit will make a very nice wine that needs to age.

I suspect from your description of the flavor that it's a less expensive kit, and not so much that it's really too sweet.

 

[joegibs]

good info! thanks. The kit we did last year was the petit sirah from williams brewing. http://www.williamsbrewing.com/PETITE-SIRAH-WINE-MAKING-KIT-FOR-5-GALLONS-P3116.aspx

So you're saying I shouldnt even mess around with something in that price range if we're expecting a better bottle of wine? We had looked through a "top 100" list of homebrew wine kits from winemaker magazine, and she had picked out an australian shiraz. I searched for the kit, and it was around $180. The WineXpert Eclipse australian shiraz to be exact.

Is there anything more complicated about making it compared to a cheap kit? just mix the concentrate and yeast, throw an airlock on and good to go??

 

[jc5066]

For the most part the kits are done the same. Follow the simple directions and you'll be good.

With that said, don't worry about degassing or bottling as directed. Bulk age it. Every 3 months rack and add nitrate. After 9-12 months bottle it. In another 2-3 months enjoy.

 

[DoctorCAD]

good info! thanks. The kit we did last year was the petit sirah from williams brewing. http://www.williamsbrewing.com/PETITE-SIRAH-WINE-MAKING-KIT-FOR-5-GALLONS-P3116.aspx

So you're saying I shouldnt even mess around with something in that price range if we're expecting a better bottle of wine? We had looked through a "top 100" list of homebrew wine kits from winemaker magazine, and she had picked out an australian shiraz. I searched for the kit, and it was around $180. The WineXpert Eclipse australian shiraz to be exact.

Is there anything more complicated about making it compared to a cheap kit? just mix the concentrate and yeast, throw an airlock on and good to go??

My Williams Petit Syrah is simply fantastic, one of the best I have made. It can have a sweet overtone when it is young. I also do 6 months in carboys before bottling, so that really does help. Price is important, but a $180 kit can suck if rushed.

 

[joegibs]

(unrelated) Ha, I just realized your username Yooper. I spent a couple weekends this last summer visiting the UP. Mostly in Ironwood, but explored copper harbor (and their cool little brewery) and the porcupine mts. Great area in the summer, but it sounds like your winters are worse than mine!

I'll try to search around for some info about adding nitrate. I'm assuming it helps the yeast with fermenting.

So you're saying a kit such as the petite sirah that I did last year if "brewed" as well as one of the expensive ones, may be just as good? I'd be bummed if I bought one of the fancy ones and it's not any better than what we're already drinking.

 

[jc5066]

Nitrate prevents bacteria growth and oxidation in the wine.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Nitrate prevents bacteria growth and oxidation in the wine.

Nitrates encourage growth, of just about everything. One reason they make excellent fertilizers.

 

[Yooper]

(unrelated) Ha, I just realized your username Yooper. I spent a couple weekends this last summer visiting the UP. Mostly in Ironwood, but explored copper harbor (and their cool little brewery) and the porcupine mts. Great area in the summer, but it sounds like your winters are worse than mine!

I'll try to search around for some info about adding nitrate. I'm assuming it helps the yeast with fermenting.

So you're saying a kit such as the petite sirah that I did last year if "brewed" as well as one of the expensive ones, may be just as good? I'd be bummed if I bought one of the fancy ones and it's not any better than what we're already drinking.

Yep, the winters here do suck all right!

My experience with condensed juice kits like the williams brewing one is not positive, so my thought is that it is the kit that is the issue. With wine kits, you do generally get what you pay for. If CAD had a good experience, then that's good news.

 

[joegibs]

the winexpert eclipse australian shiraz seems to have vanished, I'm guessing it was a limited release.

This one was on the same top 100 list i saw, but now you guys got me wondering if it's good enough quality. http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Cru-Select-Australian-Cabernet-Shiraz-Merlot-Wine-Kit-P376.aspx

If it's not concentrate, what is the kit comprised of? will they ship me 5 gallons of raw pressed juice??

 

[Yooper]

the winexpert eclipse australian shiraz seems to have vanished, I'm guessing it was a limited release.

This one was on the same top 100 list i saw, but now you guys got me wondering if it's good enough quality. http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Cru-Select-Australian-Cabernet-Shiraz-Merlot-Wine-Kit-P376.aspx

If it's not concentrate, what is the kit comprised of? will they ship me 5 gallons of raw pressed juice??

:rockin:

No, never raw pressed juice. But a clue is in the amount of juice/concentrate. For example, the cheap kits sent you maybe 4-6 liters of "concentrate". These are ok, like Two Buck Chuck in quality. You can drink it, and it's not horrible, but not something you'd serve proudly with a nice dinner.

The best juice have more juice and concentrate. The one you linked to says:

Our 16-litre Cru Select wine kits make 23 litres and are made to exacting standards – with pure varietal grape juice in addition to European and Australian grape concentrates (no sugar is added or required)!

So, a "medium" kit that comes with 16L of concentrate so you only top up with 7 liters of water.

A "high" quality kit says:

This ultra premium Cabernet Sauvignon has the trademark black currant & cherry flavors with a subtle weave of complex compounds that will delight "Cab" fans.
This kit includes: Juice Concentrate (18L) plus grape skins


If you dig around, you can find the kits that give you more juice and concentrate so that you add less water, and the taste is so much better. The better kits come with grape skins to use in the ferment as well, and oak spirals instead of oak sawdust..

 

[joegibs]

very good info, thanks! ok, so this one says 18 liter and does include skins. this particular one wasn't on the previously mentioned top 100 list of kits, but several of the cellar classic's were. http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Cell...ustralian-Cabernet-Shiraz-Wine-Kit-P1150.aspx

this should give me a better bottle than the two buck chuck?

 

[Yooper]

very good info, thanks! ok, so this one says 18 liter and does include skins. this particular one wasn't on the previously mentioned top 100 list of kits, but several of the cellar classic's were. http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Cell...ustralian-Cabernet-Shiraz-Wine-Kit-P1150.aspx

this should give me a better bottle than the two buck chuck?

Yes, that's a better kit. It's not the "top of the line", "ultra premium" kits, but it's still pretty good.

I do a mix of cheaper and more expensive kits. That way we have our daily drinkers, as well as some good bottles to serve to guests or for special occasions.

 

[joegibs]

why is everything on this website so cheap? the shipping is 40 dollars, but it's still significantly cheaper than everywhere else
http://www.southernhomebrew.com/enprimeur.html

 

[fbold1]

Check out Label Peelers, with their specials I can usually get supplies for less than my local hbs. I have had good luck with the wine expert World vineyard series.