How to release recirculated wort on top of mash?

[ALExanderH]

Wondering how I should do this. I do full volume no sparge brew in a basket. I'm adding a chugger and pid to control the heat from my element.

Should spray the wort over as much area as possible? One stream on top of wort? Immerse in the mash? If immerse in the mash, many holes to stream to many sides in mash?

 

[kombat]

The goal is to return the wort to the top without disturbing the grain bed. You can do that with a sparge arm, or something to protect the top of your grain bed. I just use a simple sheet of aluminum foil with a bunch of holes punched in it with the thermometer probe from my turkey fryer.

 

[ALExanderH]

Why would I not want to disturb the grain bed?

 

[kombat]

So it will settle and filter out the debris during the vorlauf. You're doing brew-in-a-basket, right? Does it contain all the grain debris, as a bag would?

 

[angrybits]

At that mash thickness, there ain't gonna be much of a grain bed. I think it'll be the basket's job to filter out the debris.

OP, I've been thinking about making a "wand" of sorts (with holes in it) to shove down into the soup to get lots of turbulence, which I presume would keep things moving around and keep efficiency is high as possible. Otherwise, I'm gonna use the manifold from ss brewtech which I already happen to have in hand.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

control the volume of the wort to reach a 1 inch wort layer on top of the grain, I use a pizza screen on top of the grain then lay my coiled up hose on top of that

 

[mcl]

He does no sparge. He is asking about recirculating during the mash. I use a stainless bulb on a silicone tube to keep the tube just under the liquid level. I am not biab and I do this for the sparge also when I don't want to upset the grain bed. In your case I would just have the return under the liquid level and you will be good.

 

[celiacguy]

Why would I not want to disturb the grain bed?

during a recirculation I think you want to get an even rinsing of the grains. Channeling would work against your efficiency and you would be better off not doing the recirculation. I think I would either completely disturb the bed so that the grains tumble around in the recirculating wort or try to get it draining across the whole bed without it channeling along the sides or channeling in the spots where the outlet meets the grainbed.

 

[Queequeg]

+1 foil, works fine. cheap and easy

 

[Bobby_M]

There really is no channeling in a full volume mash. The dogma regurgitation that happens between batch sparge, fly sparge, and no sparge techniques is tricky to navigate.

 

[celiacguy]

There really is no channeling in a full volume mash. The dogma regurgitation that happens between batch sparge, fly sparge, and no sparge techniques is tricky to navigate.

You need to chill out dude.

there are issues with channeling with full volume mashing and recirculation. Poorly designed ebiab setups run into the problem all the time. You will see someone ask for advice on here or other forums saying they added recirculation to their biab setup and their efficiency dropped significantly. The culprit is always too fine a crush and a wort return that is a single hose that fires at the grains directly. The recirculation then goes out the sides of the bag and not through the grains and they don't rinse the grain bed very effectively. Well some parts are well rinsed and some aren't. You could stir it all up at the end to rinse the grains but then what's the point of having the recirculation?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I see your point, Ive recirculated for years and recently went to a very fine crush and started to stir every 20 minutes just to see whats happening and the grain is not fully saturated, I was stumped by this the other day so back to a bigger crush for me

 

[NeoBrew]

I use a pipe full of holes that goes down onto the center of the mash about 4". I'm interested to see all the responses. I've certainly not perfected my setup yet.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

At that mash thickness, there ain't gonna be much of a grain bed. I think it'll be the basket's job to filter out the debris.

OP, I've been thinking about making a "wand" of sorts (with holes in it) to shove down into the soup to get lots of turbulence, which I presume would keep things moving around and keep efficiency is high as possible. Otherwise, I'm gonna use the manifold from ss brewtech which I already happen to have in hand.

A mate has this setup - a length of copper pipe with holes drilled in it that goes down through the grains inside the bag for the recirculating wort. It works well and gets good efficiency. Wort is very cloudy, but beer is good.

 

[Queequeg]

There really is no channeling in a full volume mash. The dogma regurgitation that happens between batch sparge, fly sparge, and no sparge techniques is tricky to navigate.

Its not the channeling, its the disturbance of the grain bed that's the issue

 

[ALExanderH]

I really dont see why disturbing the grain bed is an issue in a full volume no sparge mash?

 

[Queequeg]

Two potential issues: stuck mash and grain particles making it to the kettle. If your not going to fixed the bed then there's no point in a vorlauf

 

[ALExanderH]

Two potential issues: stuck mash and grain particles making it to the kettle. If your not going to fixed the bed then there's no point in a vorlauf

You perhaps didn't pick up that I brew in a basket. Single kettle with a stainless steel mesh basket instead of a bag. Therefore I wont have a stuck mash, have never done a vorlauf and unless the basket ruptures won't have particles 'making' it to the kettle.

Also my grains are not milled very fine, probably right in between regular and biab crush.

 

[angrybits]

You need to chill out dude.

No, he doesn't.

 

[Bobby_M]

Its not the channeling, its the disturbance of the grain bed that's the issue

This is exactly what I mean. Every mash/lauter process has it's own set of parameters and pitfalls and some of them are mutually exclusive.

When you full volume mash, you don't worry about sparge terminology.
When you batch sparge you don't worry about slowly draining.
When you BIAB, you don't vorlauf.

To answer the original question, I use a port in the lid of my pot with locline on the underside to deliver the recirc to the top of the mash just below the liquid level. It's arranged so that it whirlpools the liquid for better heat distribution.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/mashrecirculation.htm

 

[Queequeg]

If this is BIAB no sparge then why recirculate at all. The problem is recirculating when its unnecessary

 

[Bobby_M]

There is no problem. There are merits to recirculation in all mash methods when actively heating to maintain homogeneous temperature throughout. It's an alternative to heavily insulating.

 

[Queequeg]

OK I see where this is going. I was a bit slow sorry.

In which case wort can be returned just from the pump outlet.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

This is what I use. I use a RIMS module and have a colander on a pizza pan that is suspended over the grain. I use it for recirculating and for sparging. This allows the wort to sprinkle over the grain.

 

[ALExanderH]

If this is BIAB no sparge then why recirculate at all. The problem is recirculating when its unnecessary

I use an stainless steel kettle with reflectix insulation but I want to have better control and distribution of the heat. Therefore I am adding a pump and upgrading to a PID controller with a PT100 and the Chugger pumps past the PT100 which allows the PID to shut on and off the element to keep a more precise and even temperature. I don't mind stirring two or three times during the mash as I have done in the past so I don't need complete automation.

I've decided I will immerse the release in the mash and now a question of having streams to the sides or straight down