How critical is PH for partial mash

[Izzie1701]

How critical is the ph level for a partial mash. I have done a lot of reading and it almost seems like you need to be a chemist to get the proper pH level. Is it really critical of for my first few can I ignore it. I know from gardening that our tap water has a ph of around 7.2. Also know it has a 220ppm of dissolved solids. What they are im not sure. We have a water softener in our house as well.

Thank you,

 

[2005STi]

Anytime you're mashing any amount, it matters. And the pH out of the tap doesn't matter so much, it's the residual alkalinity that matters. See How to Brew by John Palmer.
Either:

1. Get some pH strips and acid on hand ready to lower it in the first 5 minutes if you're over 5.2-5.4 (minute amounts like a single drop of lactic)
2. Wing it, if it's a dark beer that turns out well you'll likely need to adjust with acid for pale beers and vice versa with CaCl for the opposite scenario
3. Just use spring water to be safe, you'll be much more likely to come close to 5.2-5.4

 

[Izzie1701]

I read the sticky and it confused the hell out of me. Was talking about getting water tests and knowing all the dissolved solids and the adjusting ph based on those. If it's just as simple as testing with a strip and adjusting to mid 5s that's easy. It was the sticky that made it sound like I needed to be a mad scientist to make a decent beer.

 

[mabrungard]

Anytime you're mashing any amount, it matters. And the pH out of the tap doesn't matter so much, it's the residual alkalinity that matters. See How to Brew by John Palmer.
Either:

1. Get some pH strips and acid on hand ready to lower it in the first 5 minutes if you're over 5.2-5.4 (minute amounts like a single drop of lactic)
2. Wing it, if it's a dark beer that turns out well you'll likely need to adjust with acid for pale beers and vice versa with CaCl for the opposite scenario
3. Just use spring water to be safe, you'll be much more likely to come close to 5.2-5.4

OK, plenty of bad advice above.

First of all, RA affects the resulting mash pH, but its not typically a targeted value. Palmer's approach that was presented in How to Brew has been thoroughly discredited. Don't employ it.

Spring water is no guarantee for producing a desirable mash pH. In fact, since spring water is a meaningless term with respect to water quality, you won't know what it will do for you. If that spring water has much alkalinity, its very unlikely that your mash pH will fall into the desired range around 5.4.

pH is an important factor, even when performing a partial mash. Getting the pH closer to the desirable range will improve your beer. There are still opportunities to screw up the beer in the partial mash and its worth your while to try and avoid that.

 

[oujens]

The sticky seems confusing at first, but with practice it makes sense. Your main priority is hitting your targeted mash pH. The grain and water you use will impact that. First focus on your water source. Do you have a local water report that outlines the mineral content? You will want to know the amount of alkalinity or bicarbonate in your water, first. The minerals in the water could impact flavor and should be considered next.

To simplify the sticky, can you use RO water? 10 gallons for me costs $3.50 at the local grocery store and I find it a worthwhile investment. The water will basically be stripped of everything, including alkalinity which is what will impact your mash pH. I switched to RO water and it has made a huge difference in my beers. For pale beers I need a simple acid addition to hit my pH (using either acidulated malt or lactic acid). For darker beers I may not need an acid addition depending on grain bill. Take a peek at Martin's Bru'n Water spreadsheet. There are plenty of people here who can help you figure this out without needing to become a scientist.

Also, most people would recommend you invest in a pH meter (not test strips) to verify results. Bru'n Water in my experience has provided a good estimate.

 

[2005STi]

OK, plenty of bad advice above.

First of all, RA affects the resulting mash pH, but its not typically a targeted value. Palmer's approach that was presented in How to Brew has been thoroughly discredited. Don't employ it.

Spring water is no guarantee for producing a desirable mash pH. In fact, since spring water is a meaningless term with respect to water quality, you won't know what it will do for you. If that spring water has much alkalinity, its very unlikely that your mash pH will fall into the desired range around 5.4.

pH is an important factor, even when performing a partial mash. Getting the pH closer to the desirable range will improve your beer. There are still opportunities to screw up the beer in the partial mash and its worth your while to try and avoid that.

1) Show me where Palmer's approach was disproved

2) Spring water, maybe I should have been more specific and said Deer Park, is very close to RO water with minerals more or less for flavor. Which will buffer a pale mash almost certainly better the OPs tap water without proper pH testing or titration and adjustment.

 

[Rev2010]

Spring water, maybe I should have been more specific and said Deer Park, is very close to RO water with minerals more or less for flavor

Spring water in general is a natural water that is subject to wild swings in readings and content. Looking at the Deer Park sheet I see: Total Hardness as CaCO3 of 15-180, Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 of 6.4-150, Calcium 4.2-66, etc. Unless I'm reading this wrong?:

http://www.nestle-watersna.com/asset-library/documents/dp_eng.pdf


Rev.

 

[mabrungard]

1) Show me where Palmer's approach was disproved

It is discussed in numerous posts by AJ Delange on this site and is also discussed in Palmer's subsequent book: Water. My website also details why the RA approach based on beer color cannot and does not work.

 

[abrix]

1) Show me where Palmer's approach was disproved

I think it's fair to say that this article discredits the use of RA to estimate mash pH. I for one was surprised to learn that Kolbach's original research was based on POST-BOIL pH measurements...NOT mash pH measurements.

 

[kh54s10]

I will get bashed for this. But if you have been brewing extract and not having any issues, the pH is not real important, since partial mash is largely made up of extract where the pH is less important.

I have been brewing all grain for 3+ years and have yet to measure my pH at any stage. Though, I am getting a water analysis and looking into water chemistry and probably pH to see if I can make my already great beers greater!!

 

[chickypad]

Okay, I'll help with the bashing. It's not unusual to get 50, 60, 70% or more of the fermentables from a partial mash so I agree with those who think it's important to pay attention to water. That being said, I too got away without doing any water adjustments for a while, likely because it turns out the water straight from my tap looks pretty much like RO. As they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

 

[joshesmusica]

Okay, I'll help with the bashing. It's not unusual to get 50, 60, 70% or more of the fermentables from a partial mash so I agree with those who think it's important to pay attention to water. That being said, I too got away without doing any water adjustments for a while, likely because it turns out the water straight from my tap looks pretty much like RO. As they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

i agree. once you're getting that high of percentages, the mash is playing a much more significant role than the extracts. i don't do water adjustments, per se. I have come to find out that my tap water is very similar to RO water, but I also got help with exact inputs into Martin's spreadsheet. So the only thing I do is add acidulated malt to get it down to the right pH range. I'm sure I could start messing with mineral additions for flavor (as was suggested by both Martin and AJ), but honestly I'm just working on my process right now, and making sure that I'm consistently putting out quality beers and getting a consistent efficiency. Once I get that down, I'll start thinking about messing around with the water.

From personal experience, I had some partial mash beers come out not very good because I had all my specialty grains in the mash, and the majority of the base grains were in the extract. This, I have come to believe, drove down the mash pH and caused an overly roasty-bitter flavor (it was a black IPA and a stout). I'm still aging the last two bottles on those just to see what happens to it. But so far, after testing one a month for the last 10 months, the flavor is still completely unbalanced. All of my paler partial mashes turned out really good for the most part. It's only one man's experience, but I suggest you attempt to at least understand what your water's made of and understand where your mash pH will land.