How can some brewers cold crash and keg so soon?

[luizffgarcia]

Hey guys, maybe you can help me figure something out.

I read many posts in which people describe their process for brewing IPAs as:

- Wait for active fermentation to subside, dryhop, cold crash, keg and drink fresh. Those who use this method usually drink their beer after around 17 days of brew day. They cold crash as soon as they can disregarding hydrometer readings.

My process is:

- Ferment until hydrometer readings stop changing for 3 days (usually 2 weeks), dry hop for 1 week, bottle, bottle condition for 4 weeks, 3 days in the fridge and drink around 49 days from brew day.

I am brewing good beer but not excellent, and for sure my beer is not the best after only 2 weeks in the bottle.

My main question is. Is kegging the main difference which allows people to cold crash even before hydrometer readings are 100% stable to drink the beer really fresh? I think i will get bottle bombs if i do that...

 

[day_trippr]

[...]They cold crash as soon as they can disregarding hydrometer readings.[...]

An assumption, or did "they" actually say that?

fwiw, nearly every batch I have ever brewed reached FG in under a week. Closer to 5 days.
Then a rise to ~68°F for 2-3 days to clean up, 4 days dry hopping, 2 days cold crashing, then into the keg for carbonation...

Cheers!

 

[ryanryates]

In terms of reducing wait time from brewday to glass, there are a few techniques which will help.

1) Kegging will reduce the need for bottle conditioning / carbonation. I typically carbonate in the keg over a three day period.
2) Dry hop once you've achieved around 75-85% attenuation. I dry hop towards the end of the fermentation while the yeast are cleaning up. At that point, you will not have much off gassing to worry about (in terms of hop aroma loss).
3) I try not to rush fermentation because just because the bubbles have slowed / stopped doesn't mean the yeast are not still working. Give your beer 3-4 days once you've reach your FG. Then cold crash.
4) I add gelatin once the beer has dropped below 50 degrees. Give it 2-3 days then keg.

 

[Johow]

Kegging certainly does make a difference. I just kegged my first batch. I brewed my IPA on the 7th of August, dry hopped on the 11th and kegged it on the 18th. I lost a couple days after that due to issues with my c02 tanks but after sorting that out I poured my first pint on Tuesday the 23rd. It will no doubt improve with a little more time but it does taste mighty fine already. I also dry hopped it a second time with whole hops in a bag inside the keg. Something that would have taken several more days if I had done it in the fermenter.

 

[55x11]

An assumption, or did "they" actually say that?

fwiw, nearly every batch I have ever brewed reached FG in under a week. Closer to 5 days.
Then a rise to ~68°F for 2-3 days to clean up, 4 days dry hopping, 2 days cold crashing, then into the keg for carbonation...

Cheers!

Agreed!
FG is often reached in 3-5 days if you use healthy yeast, appropriate pitching rate (appropriate starter) and mashing low for fermentable sugars. I dry hop on the back end of fermentation, once krausen drops, the interaction with yeast makes it for unique hop aroma. Or, often I dry hop in the keg (at low temp), for entire duration of the beer. Never get the grassy taste people sometimes get paranoid about.

My fastest record schedule for IPA (8 days grain to glass) is something like:
FG (about 1.005) is reached after 4 days at 63-65F. Started dry hopping on day 3 or so. Raised temperature day 4, cold-crashed/gelatined on day 6, kegged on day 7, drinkable on day 8. OR, dry-hopping during transfer to keg. Or both.

But typically "no-rush" 10-14 days grain to grass is a more common schedule for me. Fermenting for 5-7 days, raise temp for next 1-2 days, cold-crash and gelatin (1-2 days), keg and force-carb (2-3 days to get decent carbonation).

To OP - if you wait 49 days (and I counted 8 weeks after fermentation is done based on your schedule), you are missing out the best time for IPA. My IPA is usually all drunk by week 8 after brew day.

 

[madscientist451]

My main question is. Is kegging the main difference which allows people to cold crash even before hydrometer readings are 100% stable to drink the beer really fresh? I think i will get bottle bombs if i do that...

The short answer is yes.
The longer answer is that you're not asking the right question.
If you want to get your beer in the glass sooner, it starts with your grain bill and recipe, lower gravity is going to save you some time. Also, new beer may have some flavors that need to "round off", but a big dose of hops or dark malts in a porter or stout can overcome this. So the actual kind of beer makes a difference.
Next is your choice of yeast, the yeast heath and the actual amount of yeast.
The third consideration is manipulating your temperature control. With a really healthy fermentation, you can cold crash as the krausen subsides instead of waiting for fermentation to "clean up".
And if you are going to bottle with the above methods, its going to take an extra two weeks of bottle conditioning/carbing so there's really no point in rushing things if you're not kegging.
My own two cents is that the "quick" methods work, but they really aren't the "best" way to produce beer. Everyone has their own tastes, what's tastes good to others may or may not work for you, so you have to find methods that suit you. If you're drinking a lot of beer, get 2-3 batches in the pipeline and then brew on a regular schedule so you don't fall behind. When I run low on homebrew I use it as an excuse to buy some variety 12 packs to try some brews I've never had and stretch out my supply.
Really fast brewing was covered in Zymurgy magazine a few years back and most of that article is covered here:

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/express-brewing-speed-brewing-grain-glass-less-10-days-0

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Dry hop once you've achieved around 75-85% attenuation. I dry hop towards the end of the fermentation while the yeast are cleaning up. At that point, you will not have much off gassing to worry about (in terms of hop aroma loss).

Dry hopping, while the yeast is still active, will allow the yeast time to scavenge any oxygen introduced by the dry hop addition too.

 

[kh54s10]

Kegging is the big difference. They are burst carbonating and drinking in only a couple of days after putting it into the keg. This is something you cannot do when bottle conditioning.

IMO, rushing the process to the minimum is not the best idea. Allow the yeast to work, allow enough time for the dry hop, IMO 5 days minimum. I have not had great success trying to burst carbonate. (30 psi and drinking in 2 days) It was still over a week before everything stabilized for me.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Thanks for the many replies guys.

So one thing called to my attention. My beer definitely will not reach final gravity in 5 days, no way!

My fermentation temperature is 19c and i use either WLP001 or Wyeast 1272. I am starting to think i may be under pitching, i read that over pitching may steal your hop flavors, here is one of the sources: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29019064/Better_Hoppy_Beers.pdf

If that is the case a good test would be to double the amount of yeast i am pitching and observe... Does this make sense?

 

[schatzke]

What size batch and how much are you pitching?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the many replies guys.

So one thing called to my attention. My beer definitely will not reach final gravity in 5 days, no way!

My fermentation temperature is 19c and i use either WLP001 or Wyeast 1272. I am starting to think i may be under pitching, i read that over pitching may steal your hop flavors, here is one of the sources: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29019064/Better_Hoppy_Beers.pdf

If that is the case a good test would be to double the amount of yeast i am pitching and observe... Does this make sense?

Double the yeast? Maybe, or even triple it.

Take a look at a yeast pitching calculator, like this one: http://mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

As an example, a 1.070 OG beer with yeast that is one month old needs either a 4.26L starter, OR 3.2 packages of yeast.

If your fermentations are taking more than 10 days to finish routinely, there is an issue.

Pitching the proper amount of yeast at the proper temperature and keeping the proper temperature throughout the fermentation is one of the key techniques to the best tasting beer.

You would have to nearly quintuple the amount of yeast you're using to overpitch, so that isn't a concern at all in this case. Underpitching IS.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Wow, i may be getting some of the off flavors i am trying to get rid of from under pitching then!

I brew one gallon batches for now, and what i do is split a 1L starter into 3 small jars. I use one jar per batch. Does that really look like too little yeast for IPAs around 1070OG?

 

[mlafnitzegger]

Regarding yeast; A starter will help kick start fermentation as well and making sure to oxygenate with o2

so... good yeast, starter, oxygenate wort with o2, pitch at same temp, temp control fermentation (almost always 64), remove after 4 to 6 days and dry hop at room temp (70 in my case) for 3 or 4 days, cold crash for 1 to 2 days, carb for at least 1 day but depending on what you prefer may be longer (I usually start drinking day 3). 15 days for me

 

[kh54s10]

Wow, i may be getting some of the off flavors i am trying to get rid of from under pitching then!

I brew one gallon batches for now, and what i do is split a 1L starter into 3 small jars. I use one jar per batch. Does that really look like too little yeast for IPAs around 1070OG?

Use the MrMalty calculator. It will tell you if you are using enough yeast...

I would think that a 1L starter is enough yeast for 3 gallons.
How are you making your starters? How old is the yeast?

 

[luizffgarcia]

Use the MrMalty calculator. It will tell you if you are using enough yeast...

I would think that a 1L starter is enough yeast for 3 gallons.
How are you making your starters? How old is the yeast?

Usually the yeast is 3 weeks old from the last starter, i always save the last jar to create a new starter.

The starter is just a 1L extract with 1040 gravity. I shake the flask about 4 times a day because i don't have a stir plate thou, then i put it in the fridge to decant and after its decanted i throw away the excess beer, shake it and divide in 3 jars.

 

[kh54s10]

3 weeks is a little old for just 1L for 3 gallons. With intermittent shaking you need to go a little bigger and probably longer. I would let a starter done this way ferment for 48 - 72 hours.

MrMalty also has a tab for using slurry. You could make some assumption about the slurry to make a starter with it.

 

[TheHopfather]

Mr. Malty says that a 3 gal batch of 1.070 beer needs 145 billion yeast cells. If your starter yeast is 3 weeks old that batch will need a 1.16L starter on its own. If you are making a 1L starter and splitting it into 3 (333mL) you are pitching ~35 billion cells. That is a large under pitch.

Your best bet is to use the pitch rate calculator, see the starter size you'll need for the OG beer you're brewing, then add your 333mL mason jar to the total. In the example above you'd need 1.16L + 0.33L = 1.49L starter. That gives you the proper pitch and some extra to save for next time.

 

[jddevinn]

I'm with some of the others, I normally hit my target gravity in 3-4 days (if I bother to check that soon). If I finish brewing at night, the next morning the blowoff tube is chugging away.

I'm

• Pitching my yeast at a target of 1 million cells/(mL * °P) for ales (a little higher than typically recommended)
• Cold crashing, decanting, then bringing the yeast back to fermentation temp before pitching
• Holding beer temperature within +-1°F (actual beer temperature with a thermowell)
• Oxygenating with pure O2, oxygenating again after 12 hours (or so) for "high gravity" beers (ie basically anything that I've added sugar to, belgians, 2xIPA's, ect)

 

[Johow]

Try making your starter just a couple days before brewing. Use a starter calc (mr malty or some such) to overbuild it by 100 billion or so cells, then save off your overbuild for next time and pitch what's left after decanting the extract.
Build a cheap and easy stirplate, it'll help build consistent starters.
DIY Stir Plate

 

[luizffgarcia]

Yep makes sense, i will try that i think i am under pitching, but not a lot.

I brew 1 gallon batches, not 3. So that 1L starter divided by 3 is not for a 3 gallon brew

 

[luizffgarcia]

Try making your starter just a couple days before brewing. Use a starter calc (mr malty or some such) to overbuild it by 100 billion or so cells, then save off your overbuild for next time and pitch what's left after decanting the extract.
Build a cheap and easy stirplate, it'll help build consistent starters.
DIY Stir Plate

Thanks for the DIY stirplate tip, i just ordered the fan!

 

[Johow]

Thanks for the DIY stirplate tip, i just ordered the fan!

I built mine in a cigar box but I have also seen people just set the flask right on the fan case. Whatever you use to house your fan, it needs to be fairly thin to get the flask as close to the magnet as possible so the stir bar can stay put while spinning. I had to thin the top of my cigar box almost to the point of being flimsy but it works well, I just have to be careful with it.

 

[55x11]

Thanks for the many replies guys.

So one thing called to my attention. My beer definitely will not reach final gravity in 5 days, no way!

My fermentation temperature is 19c and i use either WLP001 or Wyeast 1272. I am starting to think i may be under pitching, i read that over pitching may steal your hop flavors, here is one of the sources: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29019064/Better_Hoppy_Beers.pdf

If that is the case a good test would be to double the amount of yeast i am pitching and observe... Does this make sense?

Are you making a starter? Or just pitching 1 vial into 6G or so of beer?

Quite a large fraction of my beers (with OG of 1.050 or so, a proper starter) reach FG in 4-5 days, see below for Porter and Pale Ale examples with Tilt. No reason to rush it, and I usually give it a few more days at raised temperature of about 70-72F to finish, but no reason to let it sit in fermenter for weeks either. I wouldn't bottle or keg until it's done but I don't think you need 1 week of dry hopping (2-3 days is sufficient, as brulosophy experiments have shown), you don't need to wait 2 weeks since beginning of fermentation to start dry hopping, and you definitely don't need 4 weeks of bottle conditioning.

If I were you (say still bottling), my "relaxed/not rushed" IPA schedule would be something like:
Day -1: prepare a healthy starter, on stir-plate ideally
Day 0: brew as usual (mash low), cool down to 65-68F, oxygenate/aerate, pitch yeast
Day 1: fermentation begins (sometimes lag is just 8 hours or so, sometimes 20+ hours)
Day 3-5: krausen has fallen and fermentation activity slows down. Start dry hopping
Day 6-8: FG is reached (or very close), bump up ferm temperature to 72F or so.
Day 8-10: cold-crash
Day 9-11: add gelatin as soon as temp <45F or so
Day 10-12: bottle (try not to add too much oxygen). Keep bottles at around 70F, away from direct light - a lot of us would keg at this point and drink the beer 3-5 days later.
Day 17-20: open your first bottle (put in a fridge for 12-24 hours). Is it carbed? If not, give it another week.
Drink all the beer in 4-8 weeks after bottling.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Thanks i will change my schedule and take yours as a guideline.

I actually brew only 1 gallon batches for now, i was making a 1L starter and dividing by 3, one per batch for beers with OG 1070.

Now i used one of those 3 jars and created a 1L started yesterday, tomorrow i will brew a new batch and use the entire starter on that. Hopefully my FG will be reached within the first week and my beer will have improved taste...

 

[dzlater]

Unless the yeast was really old, I wouldn't bother with a starter for a one gallon batch. A one gallon batch is basically a starter.
I would just pitch the yeast. If you want to get a couple of brews out of it just harvest some from the one gallon.

 

[RamBamBooey]

I was reading "Brew Like a Monk". They have brew times and temps of a lot of the best Belgian beers. Most are high fermentation temp (70-85) for 2-5 days. COLD secondary (35-45) for 5-20 days. Chimay, for example, goes from grain to bottle in 7 days (I forget which color. Note: they bottle condition.)

I was inspired. I made a 8.6% Dubbel and I was drinking it in 14 days. I could have tapped it sooner but I got busy. I pitched at 72. Temp rose to 80. I warmed up my fermenter until I hit about 85. After three days my gravity was at 1.012 so I crashed the temp to about 56 (as cold as I could get.) It was ready to keg by day 7.

This isn't a subtle Dubbel. It smells like dates and figs and sweet dark caramel. But if that is the beer you want you can have it cold and carbed and in your glass in less than two weeks.