Hot, Sour, Sweet, Salty

[user 197168]

So I was reading through a few of the Mad Fermentationalist's crazy beer recipes and was thinking about his obsession with sour beers. It got me to thinking about the South East Asian cooking style of hot, sour, sweet and salty, and my obsession with tom yum goong. It's a flavour that attacks every angle of your palate.

This got me thinking about beer. Could you? I mean, I've done hot before - my hot chocolate stout was a winner! I've also brewed on the sweeter side. I know that sour beer is possible, and how hard is it to chuck a bit of salt in a beer? The big question is, could you make a beer that combined all four?

God know's what it would be. A dark wheat beer maybe? Actually, maybe even the chocolate stout - bitter, salted, chilli chocolate (but I don't know how you'd also get the sweet in).

Any thoughts?

 

[FastAndy]

This sounds terrifying. In my opinion, and its just that, not expressing what others should or should not do, i feel beer should compliment food flavors and not recreate them.

 

[user 197168]

This sounds terrifying

Hahahaaa!! Yes, I agree, it does. I still like the idea though. What's the worse that can happen? I pour a few bottles down the sink?

I think I'm going to attempt a mini batch of chilli, bitter chocolate stout, and somehow add a hint of salt to it. Although from what I have read, salt and beer don't play well together. Is that true?

I do recall a Brew Dogs beer made with kelp, so...

 

[Calder]

A gose is a lactic soured beer with salt.

Go for it. Start with a Berliner, sour with lactobacillus. Boil to kill the bacteria, and add some Lactose, any hops, salt, and chiles, then pitch yeast.

Sounds bloody awful! .......... You might want to make it a small batch.

 

[Cyclman]

Habanero Chocolate Robust Porter. Habaneros add heat and some sweetness. Chocolate (malt of nibs) for bitter and sweet. Hops for bitter. Traditional porters were somewhat sour, so you could add some acidulated malt. Salt, don't know on that one.

Sounds kind of like Left Hand Brewery's Fade to black, a wonderful beer. One of my favorite "out there" beers. One to be savored warm.

I would definitely experiment with small batches. I would be very hesitant to add salt, never liked that in beer.

This is the kind of thing that could be legendary, good luck!

 

[Colorowdy]

Brew several different beers. Each one with a different flavor profile you are looking for and blend them to taste from there.
The gose would kill two birds with one stone.

 

[user 197168]

A gose is a lactic soured beer with salt.

Go for it. Start with a Berliner, sour with lactobacillus. Boil to kill the bacteria, and add some Lactose, any hops, salt, and chiles, then pitch yeast.

Sounds bloody awful! .......... You might want to make it a small batch.

Ha! Thanks for your advice and your honesty! I didn't really know what a gose was until now.

So I'm assuming if I add lactobacillus then add lactose, that the lactobacillus would consume the lactose leaving no sweetness. If I boil it however, I will kill something more precious - the alcohol (won't I?).

I do like the idea though!

 

[user 197168]

@Cyclman - yes, the chilli, chocolate, salted, soured, sweetened porter/stout sounds the go. Man, I wish we had access to all those beers out here in Oz. It's getting better, but still nothing like the States.

And thanks for your encouragement. It's mostly for ****sandgiggles anyhow. If something good comes from it, well, that would be a bonus.

@Colorowdy - Sounds like a plan. I'm thinking I'll brew a standard base, and adjust the adjuncts for each mini batch.

 

[Colorowdy]

Let us know how this turns out.

 

[masonsjax]

It seems like the terms "sour" and "bitter" have been used interchangeably throughout this thread. They are very different things. Sour is tart tasting acidity, and we all know what bitter is.

I like the idea of brewing several small batches and blending.

Re: the question about lactobacillus eating the added lactose, you can sidestep that problem by souring the mash or wort before fermentation. Boil when the pH drops to your liking, then ferment. That way theres no alcohol yet and the boil kills all the bacteria.

Another problem is that lactose isn't incredibly sweet. It adds mouthfeel and is a little sweeter than maltodextrin (which isn't sweet at all), but I don't think youd be happy with that if you're shooting for sweet.

 

[USM_Eagle]

A gose is a lactic soured beer with salt.

Go for it. Start with a Berliner, sour with lactobacillus. Boil to kill the bacteria, and add some Lactose, any hops, salt, and chiles, then pitch yeast.

Sounds bloody awful! .......... You might want to make it a small batch.

I was thinking gose as well.

Although, I would probably cheat at first with this "gimmick" beer by adding lactic acid to the keg.

 

[USM_Eagle]

So now that I wrote that, maybe something like a salted watermelon Serrano wheat with the sweetness balance coming from honey malt, and lactic added at kegging.

I think a fruit addition would help balance the sour and salt flavors, and reinforce the sweet aspect by making the drinker expect sweet to be there with the fruit.

Being in MS, watermelon was the first fruit I thought of b/c of watermelon salads.

 

[eric19312]

Interesting idea

I'd keep bitter out its a different flavor and you are looking for a delicate balance of sour/sweet/hot/salt no bitter.

Sour and Salt can come from a Gose

Maybe some thai bird chili added in a restrained manner for the hot. Sean Paxton's been doing some podcasts and probably writing about how to get chili into beer. Tincture is controllable way.

Sweet I've got two ideas. What about those sweet syrups they add to Berlinerweisse? Maybe just make a simple syrup out of brown sugar and add to the glass before beer.

More challenging I have occasionally brewed a really sweet beer that nevertheless was quite dry according to calibrated hydrometer. Beer used vienna malt and a lot of late (whirlpool) hops. I thought it was much too sweet and needed more bittering IBUs to get what I wanted out of an IPA but perhaps it would be possible for your beer.


Finally one more idea. Get a couple cans of either Westbrook or Anderson Valley Gose. Make a chili tincture with fresh chilis and vodka. Make a simple syrup. Mix the three in a glass before you brew gallons. You could also try different levels of sourness (i think westbrook is more sour than anderson valley) and could try adding extra salt if you think not salty enough. Probably not needed with westbrook but might be worth trying with AV.

 

[Franky]

Keep us updated as this is something I've been thinking of doing myself. I love salted, chili, chocolate.

I just wonder if the salt is possible in the beer...not going to stop me from trying to brew up at least a small batch this year sometime.

 

[user 197168]

Yeah, I'm not sure when I'll get to it. I'm currently stockpiling brews to age. I'll definitely give it a go though. I might use the syrup idea and try to sour my already brewed and bottled chocolate chilli stout in the glass, just to see how it works (adding a bit of salt as well).