Hot Break - Thoughts?

[oljimmy]

Hi all, there seem to be varying opinions on the importance of a hot break. I've never seen one on my stovetop-gas setup, neither with extract or with all grain, 5 batches in. My beers have not been particularly tasty... good, but not very good. No traces of creamed-corn taste/scent, but I still worry about that damned hot break.

I thought it might be a temp issue, but I've calibrated my boil thermometer and I've definitely been boiling at 212 F.

I thought it might be a pH issue, but I'm brewing with spring water which ought to allow me to hit a good pH for the boil.

My boils don't look *super* rigorous like the ones you see on propane burners, but they still roll. My boiloff is .67 gal/hr, below-average, so I assume that it's the stovetop method that 's keeping the boil from being super-vigorous. I have a hard time believing that this difference can be that important. Is it?

 

[LLBeanJ]

So, you don't get any foam as the wort comes up to a boil that dissipates once the boil gets going?

 

[unionrdr]

I got aftermarket heating elements from amazon for our electric stove. After the mash & sparge, I get the wort up to a blooping, spitting boil in about 20 minutes with the dial cranked to "high". This gives a good hot break right before the wort boils. Then I turn the dial down to "8.8" for a gently rolling boil.
What exactly are you doing?

 

[McKnuckle]

In my opinion, whatever taste deficiencies you are seeing are not due to your hot break or your boil. My indoor brewing boil-off rate varies from 0.45 to 0.66 gallons per hour, depending on the vessel used or whether it's electric vs. gas stove. Outdoor propane is much higher, over a gallon. Always get a solid hot break (how would you avoid it even if you wanted to!?).

There are SO many other, more important reasons for things not coming out as good as you wanted them to. I would look elsewhere. Grain bill, water profile, hop schedule, yeast health, fermentation temp control, sanitation, aging, etc. etc.

 

[unionrdr]

Forgot to mention that a good hot break will give clearer beer later on. But this is also governed by yeast flocculation rate, sanitation & other things mentioned.

 

[oljimmy]

Hi all, thanks for the comments. I get nothing. No foam, just a slow, steaming rise in temp until 212 hits. None of those little protein chunks everyone talks about. No boil-over when I throw hop pellets straight in.

My pot is 15" wide and sits over two gas burners, one of which is the "power burner". I crank them both up, put the lid on, and usually go from 140F-212 in about 25 minutes.

Thanks McKnuckle. I sanitize religiously, use yeast starters/rehydration, control ferm temp in a chest freezer, age for 4 weeks before bottle-conditioning for 2 weeks. Last thing I'm tweaking is water profile, new batches have been customized with Bru'n'water and a water report. If that doesn't do it...

Anyway, I don't worry about clarity... cold crashing works wonders in that regard. It really is just taste, which has been consistently disappointing at both the extract and the BIAB stage. I think I will stop worrying about the stupid hot break.

 

[alane1]

do you know what the wort ph is?

 

[desabat]

Could you describe the taste you are getting in more detail?

 

[McKnuckle]

Hmm... That's weird.

When all else fails and you've got your act together, which it sure seems like you do, look to water. It's 90% of the product or (something like that).

I noticed you mentioned pH "for the boil" in your first post, but I assume you know it's mash pH that is the most important. That spring water can be good for lighter beers (I've used Poland Spring successfully). For anything dark you're going to need something with residual alkalinity to buffer the natural acids in the grist. Water is a whole 'nother subject... not going to get into it on this thread most likely, but it sounds like you're already looking into it.

 

[oljimmy]

Hi alane, no, I do not. The pH meter and refractometer are next on my "let's see how much money I can sink into this" list. My wife is super stoked about that.

Desabat, it's hard to describe, but the resulting beer tastes thin, has acidic notes which are unsatisfying, and has very little mouthfeel. As if it were mashed at a too-low temp (though my calibrated thermometers say otherwise). It's also usually darker than it's supposed to be.

McKnuckle, I've got a stout bottle-conditioning which was fine tuned to a "black stout" water profile using Poland Spring and a couple of additions. If that doesn't come out nice, I'm going to start getting really paranoid.

Thanks all, I'm going to stop worrying about the hot break.

 

[WayFrae]

Hi alane, no, I do not. The pH meter and refractometer are next on my "let's see how much money I can sink into this" list. My wife is super stoked about that.

Desabat, it's hard to describe, but the resulting beer tastes thin, has acidic notes which are unsatisfying, and has very little mouthfeel. As if it were mashed at a too-low temp (though my calibrated thermometers say otherwise).

McKnuckle, I've got a stout bottle-conditioning which was fine tuned to a "black stout" water profile using Poland Spring and a couple of additions. If that doesn't come out nice, I'm going to start getting really paranoid.

Thanks all, I'm going to stop worrying about the hot break.

A wild yeast infection can really thin out a beer. Maybe look into your sanitation procedure.

 

[oljimmy]

So just as a follow-up for anyone interested in this in the future, I did a full all-grain batch today (not BIAB) for the first time, and I was very careful to watch the water profile. In the 205-212F range, noticeable foam formed that I hadn't seen in my previous batches, and it clearly was coagulating into chunks of protein. I skimmed it during the boil, assuming it was the hot break. In short, a combination of extract brewing and bad water may have been the culprit for me.

 

[sky4meplease]

If your brewing dark beers with soft relatively mineral free water then your ph is likely in the basement.
The dark malts will drive the ph down and this happens in the mash or I suppose in steeping specialty grains though I didn't check ph when I did extract batches.
Definitely get a ph meter for yourself and some flowers for the little lady.
That being said, I use Brewers Friend and build up R/O water for brewing and hit my ph every time. While I still use the ph meter to check the mash ph I am sure I could get by without it.
Then again I use the ph meter to verify my water ph before making adjustments and during many other tasks involved in brewing.
The refractometer I got on eBay for under twenty dollars. Can't imagine life without it.