Hop spider/bagged hops - when do you pull it?

[remthewanderer]

I just realized a part of my process might be negatively impacting my final product. So here is the question:

If you use a hop spider or hops in a bag, when do you pull the bag? My last session I brewed a Kolsch. Reviewing my notes from the weekend, I realized that I did not leave the hop spider in place while I was chilling. I pulled the bag at flame out. Since Kolsch as a style is not super dependent on hoppiness, I figure it does not matter too much either way.

However, I am wondering whether I would be better off leaving the hop spider in place while my immersion chiller chills. Thoughts?

 

[rjschroed]

There are a few big variables to consider. I predict little to no affect this time since you said kolsch and since most kolsch style beers don't have much, if anything, in the way of flavor or aroma hops but:

1) Your process. How long you whirlpool and how long it takes for you to chill your wort. Hops will isomerise above 180 (er maybe it's 160, but that debate is about as long as it gets). how much isomerisation that takes place depends on how quickly you chill. Basically, IBUs are being added during this time and probably some other less understood stuff regarding flavor and aroma.

2) Hop schedule. Like I said, probably little to no affect in this case because you probably weren't using much if any flavor or aroma hops. Taking the bittering addition out when you did. . . Well, you might be an IBU or 2 lower in this specific case (depending on recipe) than you would have been if you left it in there. Most of us have a hard time telling the difference between a few IBU.

I would recommend leaving it in as you chill (I'm sure someone will have a dissenting opinion) but whatever you do just stay consistent, you can make adjustments in recipe from there.

 

[jetmac]

I pull everything in my hop bag at flameout. The hops I put in @ flameout(aroma) are not in a bag and are left in. I'm sure some of them are carried into the fermenter then the keg. I think 60 min means 60 min for the boil, so as you chill, less and less bitterness comes out(if any after 160-180F) So, IMHO, the effect of leaving them in won't be additional bitterness but rather flavor and aroma. So, as rjschroed, don't worry wether you do or not, just remain consistant.

 

[DannPM]

Jet whatever you post is always overshadowed by that avatar lol

 

[remthewanderer]

There are a few big variables to consider. I predict little to no affect this time since you said kolsch and since most kolsch style beers don't have much, if anything, in the way of flavor or aroma hops but:

1) Your process. How long you whirlpool and how long it takes for you to chill your wort. Hops will isomerise above 180 (er maybe it's 160, but that debate is about as long as it gets). how much isomerisation that takes place depends on how quickly you chill. Basically, IBUs are being added during this time and probably some other less understood stuff regarding flavor and aroma.

2) Hop schedule. Like I said, probably little to no affect in this case because you probably weren't using much if any flavor or aroma hops. Taking the bittering addition out when you did. . . Well, you might be an IBU or 2 lower in this specific case (depending on recipe) than you would have been if you left it in there. Most of us have a hard time telling the difference between a few IBU.

I would recommend leaving it in as you chill (I'm sure someone will have a dissenting opinion) but whatever you do just stay consistent, you can make adjustments in recipe from there.

These are two excellent points. I will keep in mind the isomerisation temp as I chill. I attempted to time my chilling with this batch but the Flyers game was on the radio and I got real distracted.

 

[remthewanderer]

I pull everything in my hop bag at flameout. The hops I put in @ flameout(aroma) are not in a bag and are left in. I'm sure some of them are carried into the fermenter then the keg. I think 60 min means 60 min for the boil, so as you chill, less and less bitterness comes out(if any after 160-180F) So, IMHO, the effect of leaving them in won't be additional bitterness but rather flavor and aroma. So, as rjschroed, don't worry wether you do or not, just remain consistant.

I really love the idea of flameout hops going into the pot rather than into the spider. This way I could still pull the spider at flameout while getting a last minute addition accomplishes. I might incorporate that into future batches.

The only reason I am in favor of pulling the spider at flameout is that I whirlpool manually with my stainless brewing spoon. the spider really gets in the way of my stirring.

With this Kolsch batch I had a 1oz 60 min addition and a 0.75 oz 10 min addition of Hersbrucker. I took what I had left (0.25 oz of the same) and threw it in at flame out because what the heck am I going to do with 0.25 oz of hops...

 

[wrench]

I would argue convenience. If you can't whirlpool because the hop spider or bag is in the way, then take it out. If you don't whirlpool, leave it in. I would think that most recipes are formulated such that the hops are separated during transfer. Anything earlier probably isn't a big deal, but could cause subtle differences. Unless you're making a clone for competition, I wouldn't sweat it at all.