Homemade Belgian Candi Sugar - Insights?

[Barley_Bob]

I made my own dark candi sugar rocks today. Which was easy, but it took forever. It took hours to get it to the point that I would actually call it dark. I cooked it between 260-275 at first. By the end, I was letting it up to 280 and trying to keep it there, which seemed to speed it up, but not a ton (both temperatures were within guidelines I read in different places). Anyway, does anyone have tips to speed it up? It still seems worth it to save the money and to have something that's mine to add to the beer, but faster would be good.

Second, I haven't really used the rocks before, and I realized later that I really don't know how dark my "dark" sugar was! Does anyone know of a guide or chart I can use to figure out just what it is I put in my beer? If I had to describe the color, I would call it a dark, burnished rose.

 

[jparrette]

Making your own sounds very unrepeatable and time consuming. I use the Belgian candi syrup, which comes in different lovibonds, is totally repeatable and relatively cheap, and quick.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Making your own sounds very unrepeatable and time consuming. I use the Belgian candi syrup, which comes in different lovibonds, is totally repeatable and relatively cheap, and quick.

$6/lb is not what I'd call cheap. For $6, I can get a vial of yeast, which will last me at least a year. Most of my brews cost me $30-$40. $6 on beet sugar is as much of 20% of that budget. For my quad, I used 2lbs! I did buy one pound of syrup, but decided to fly solo on the other pound (something of a first-timer's compromise). True, making my own took a while, but it cost pennies. And homebrewing is hardly ever 100% repeatable for most brewers. We come close every time, but we're not pros, and I think the flair of chance adds to the fun.

 

[billingsbrew]

As much fun as I have had making Belgian Candi syrup or my version of it. You simply cannot make the same version at home as they do with the commercial candi syrup. Yes you can invert your own sugar and for some styles is a very good idea to do so. However making dark strong Belgians you would be wise to invest in the darker syrups for flavor not just for sugar content.

 

[Derek1985]

Syrup is the way to go. It is not only convenient but the most authentic ingredient for those darker Belgian brew.

If its the expense that throws you off then you can make your own syrup.

I will likely be easier than making your own candi sugar rocks.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Like with most things, making a lot of it helps you with reaching repeatable results. Aka, make a lot of belgian beers with homemade candi sugar and you'll teach yourself how to make the same dark candi sugar. I am right there with you on the cost issue, I can't justify spending that amount for sugar, when I use 2+lbs of sugar in a big belgian I can spend 50 cents to make all the sugar, or 12-15 bucks?

I personally havent tried to go all the way into 200+ range for candi sugars, I tend to stop around dark brown/black with ruby on the very edges. One thing I've found that helps is using only enough water to completely disolve the sugar. The carmelization doesn't really hike up into top gear until all the water evaporates so the time its taking you to get there is probably a lot of just evaporating water.

I think that, once we hit the 200 range on a candi sugar, the difference in taste between a 200 candi sugar and a 250 candi sugar is probably not very very pronounced once you put it in a beer. I would be surprised if most BJCP judges would be able to tell if you did two beers made side by side and the only difference is you used a garunteed commercially made 275 candi sugar, and a home made candi sugar where you guessed it was around 200 or above.

Edit: You can get away with high heat during the first part of the boil. The temp will stick around 230 while the water evaporates. Once it starts getting close to all the water evaporating you can watch the temp ramp up to 260. As soon as all the water is gone you will see your temp hit 275. Interesting to watch at this point it is very tough to get the clear candi sugar to go much above 285 (I've tried and watched carefully with a syringe of warm water to quickly cool the solution if it goes up really fast). High heat to start until the solution hits 275, then slow it down and watch carefully, the high heat to start should help speed up the process. I'll usually get a deep ruby/brown sugar in less than 45 minutes, maybe another 10 minutes to start hitting the dark brown/black range. Once it starts changing color it goes quickly.

 

[Hanglow]

Did you add acid and some DAP? I turns quick then. If you have an appropriate thermometer and a decent oven, then you can make it in the oven and its a bit easier

I tend to make the british brewers syrups that way, its similar just the belgian ones use refined sugar and you use unrefined for the british ones and a lower temperature otherwise it doesn't turn out well

And yeah, don't bother heating it to set it, just keep it as a syrup. once its at the colour you want, pour in 10% of weight of water, that'll make it easier to pour

 

[Barley_Bob]

Like with most things, making a lot of it helps you with reaching repeatable results. Aka, make a lot of belgian beers with homemade candi sugar and you'll teach yourself how to make the same dark candi sugar. I am right there with you on the cost issue, I can't justify spending that amount for sugar, when I use 2+lbs of sugar in a big belgian I can spend 50 cents to make all the sugar, or 12-15 bucks?

I personally havent tried to go all the way into 200+ range for candi sugars, I tend to stop around dark brown/black with ruby on the very edges. One thing I've found that helps is using only enough water to completely disolve the sugar. The carmelization doesn't really hike up into top gear until all the water evaporates so the time its taking you to get there is probably a lot of just evaporating water.

I think that, once we hit the 200 range on a candi sugar, the difference in taste between a 200 candi sugar and a 250 candi sugar is probably not very very pronounced once you put it in a beer. I would be surprised if most BJCP judges would be able to tell if you did two beers made side by side and the only difference is you used a garunteed commercially made 275 candi sugar, and a home made candi sugar where you guessed it was around 200 or above.

Edit: You can get away with high heat during the first part of the boil. The temp will stick around 230 while the water evaporates. Once it starts getting close to all the water evaporating you can watch the temp ramp up to 260. As soon as all the water is gone you will see your temp hit 275. Interesting to watch at this point it is very tough to get the clear candi sugar to go much above 285 (I've tried and watched carefully with a syringe of warm water to quickly cool the solution if it goes up really fast). High heat to start until the solution hits 275, then slow it down and watch carefully, the high heat to start should help speed up the process. I'll usually get a deep ruby/brown sugar in less than 45 minutes, maybe another 10 minutes to start hitting the dark brown/black range. Once it starts changing color it goes quickly.

I agree the difference is going to be slight between syrups or rocks of a similar color. We're basically talking about nuance, which I'm fine with. The syrup I purchased and added was D90, and mine was darker (quite a bit, I think). I would say deep ruby. I definitely didn't hit your timeline, though.

Did you add acid and some DAP? I turns quick then. If you have an appropriate thermometer and a decent oven, then you can make it in the oven and its a bit easier

I tend to make the british brewers syrups that way, its similar just the belgian ones use refined sugar and you use unrefined for the british ones and a lower temperature otherwise it doesn't turn out well

And yeah, don't bother heating it to set it, just keep it as a syrup. once its at the colour you want, pour in 10% of weight of water, that'll make it easier to pour

I did add 1/4tsp. of cream of tartar, which is a food grade acid. I wonder if I should have used more or of something stronger? I also had the temp down at the low end of the 260-275 range, and it seemed to speed up after I started keeping it at the high end. That's probably part of the issue.

Good tip on adding water. Making the rocks really wasn't much work. It was just a little trouble to break it out of the pan. But I did add it same day, so syrup would have been easier.

I'll have to look up the british. I'm not that familiar, but it's interesting.

EDIT: Post-sugar addition, the fermentation blew off again. And the beer smells much more interesting. It smelled good before, but not really "Belgian." It now much more peppery, spicy, and digestible. And that's just after one day with sugar in it. It's going to be fantastic to see how it transforms over the next couple of weeks and then in the bottle. Fun! I'm using wlp530.

 

[tagz]

There's a very in depth thread about making the various syrups. It's got pics and everything. I don't have the link handy

 

[Barley_Bob]

There's a very in depth thread about making the various syrups. It's got pics and everything. I don't have the link handy

If I had the link handy...

I found one recipe that used 5mL of lactic acid. That's probably a crap ton more acid than I used. Found my problem?

 

[tagz]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837

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[chri5]

That's a great thread. I've had good results following it.

 

[Barley_Bob]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837

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Thanks Bud!

 

[Barley_Bob]

So, based on my reading in that thread, it took so long because it darkens to terminal temperature and not by duration of boiling. If I just jump straight to the temperature that corresponds to the darkness I'm looking for, I'll be done lickity-split.

Also, I made invert sugar, and not the Maillard sugar described in that thread. Which I'm fine with. I used a pack of candi sugar I purchased and I used some munich malt, which should give me that element, and my invert sugar will certainly add flavor. It sounds like it will actually be slightly drier this way, which will be a plus in a quad.

Mine was about the color of the 290F.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Hanglow]

FWIW, for the british ones using demerara or turbinado which is what I think you call it, you should keep the temperature at 245F and it will darken over time. Use 5ml of 88% lactic acid per KG of sugar

 

[Barley_Bob]

FWIW, for the british ones using demerara or turbinado which is what I think you call it, you should keep the temperature at 245F and it will darken over time. Use 5ml of 88% lactic acid per KG of sugar

I'll have to take a crack at it. Thanks!

 

[Beerswimmer]

I make my own dark syrup all the time. I probably spend $6 on it, but it's mine. I start with baking a pound of dates cut in half and seeds removed at 300F until dark and crispy, about 45- an hour. Then regular beet sugar and a touch of water and start bringing up to 275 in a pot. Once that starts turning red/brownish I toss in the dates and a spoonful of bread yeast and bring up to 300 and stir the hell out of it, adding a splash of water when I think it needs it. After about 10 mins it's ready to either mix into the wort, or add a few cups of water to cool and add to an already fermenting beer. Tastes "very" similar to canisyrup inc's D-180. Easy, and all homemade. D-180 is superior, and a value at only $6. If I would use only D-180 I would be happier.