HLT & HERMS coil for the chill process

[jcalisi]

Who uses their Herms coil in the HLT to cool their wort. I can't decide if I want to use this process or go ahead and get a plate chiller. I would expect to use an ice bath in the hlt to hit the 70 or less mark especially in the summer.

 

[Walker]

edit: my HERMS coil is movable and not mounted into any vessel.

I do this, but I don't use just ice-water.

By the time my boil is done, the MLT and HLT are empty. I put about 5 gallons of tap water in the HLT and put oxiclean in it.

I put about 3 gallons of tap water in the MLT and put 10# or so of ice in it.

When I am ready to chill, I put the coil into the oxiclean water in the HLT and start pumping. This takes the first 100* or so off wort and heats up that oxiclean water at the same time.

Then I move the coil to the ice-water in the MLT and finish the chilling.

When the beer is in the carboy, I now have 5 gallons of hot cleaning solution and 5 gallons of clear rinse water sitting there ready to go.

 

[jcalisi]

that sounds like a good process and a way to save on waste water. I guess I didn't look forward enough since my coil is attached to the hlt... although I guess I could use my ic I still have and put it inline once the mt is cleaned out.

thanks

 

[Walker]

i wasn't exactly looking forward when this all happened. I was being cheap.

I didn't want the expense of an electric kettle and an electric HLT, so I just built one thing and re-purposed my old IC as the HERMS coil. I use that one electric kettle as an HLT during the mash and then later I use it for the boil kettle, too.

The only time I never need a third vessel is that brief period where I am pumping my first mash runnings into the boil kettle. I need a place to hold my sparge water at that time. So, before I collect the first wort, I just move the hot water that I was using for my mash regulation into a third vessel. That water just sits there for a few minutes and then ends up in my MLT for sparge.

Being able to chill like I do is a result of me trying to build a minimal system with full functionality.

compared to a HERMS with dedicated HLT, the only thing I am doing extra during my brew session is pumping 3 or 4 gallons of water from one container to another. I thought that was worth the money savings.

 

[jcalisi]

not to read anything into this but if you had the surplus cash would you buy a plate chiller or are you happy with the process.

 

[Walker]

not to read anything into this but if you had the surplus cash would you buy a plate chiller or are you happy with the process.

Money isn't any obstacle.

I am an engineer and my personality leads me towards trying to get the most functionality out of the smallest set of equipment. Plate chillers are (IMO) one-trick ponies. They chill wort and that's it. The coil I have can be used to do the HERMS mashing, or the wort chilling.

I also brew from time time at friends' houses. When those days come up....

My temporary HLT is just a keggle with a spigot on it. It can be pulled off the electric stand and used as a boil kettle on top of a propane burner. And, since the coil is not affixed to anything, I can take it with me to use as a regular IC on those remote brew days.

I had considered getting a plate chiller at one point (before going electric, actually), but I'm spooked by what might be building up in the tiny nooks and crannies when I pump my wort through it. I wouldn't feel comfortable about how clean it might or might not be inside.

edit: I am not bashing plate chillers. They seem to work f*cking great. It just isn't something that jives with my personality.

 

[jcalisi]

no worries I'm still on the fence. I will try your process and see how it works. Since I have yet to do a AG yet I'm trying to get everything in place. I'm Hopeful of doing at least a wet test by this weekend.

thanks for the insights.

 

[Walker]

wow.... haven't even done an AG batch yet and you've got a HERMS system almost done?

Bravo, man.

I brewed extract for almost a decade before switching to AG, and then it was a few more years before I went 'lectric.

 

[inkedfireman]

You are the man! I'm all grain, but am in the process of going electric. Like you, I'm not afraid to spend the money (witness the tri-clover hardware I just bought), but I like the elegant solution.

I was thinking about how to attach the HERMS coil to the HLT, but I am trying to avoid threaded connections/weldless fittings. I never even thought of using the IC I already have as a HERMS coil! Thanks for opening my eyes to the fact that the INSIDE of the IC can also serve a purpose!

Denny, steals good ideas...

 

[JuanMoore]

I chill pretty much just like Walker does. I mounted my HEX coil to the underside of the lid of my HLT so that it can be moved to the other vessels if needed.

 

[jcalisi]

I liked the lid idea as well but already had the couplers in the side of my pot so just went that way. I can't wait to test this out.

 

[kpr121]

edit: my HERMS coil is movable and not mounted into any vessel.

I do this, but I don't use just ice-water.

By the time my boil is done, the MLT and HLT are empty. I put about 5 gallons of tap water in the HLT and put oxiclean in it.

I put about 3 gallons of tap water in the MLT and put 10# or so of ice in it.

When I am ready to chill, I put the coil into the oxiclean water in the HLT and start pumping. This takes the first 100* or so off wort and heats up that oxiclean water at the same time.

Then I move the coil to the ice-water in the MLT and finish the chilling.

When the beer is in the carboy, I now have 5 gallons of hot cleaning solution and 5 gallons of clear rinse water sitting there ready to go.

Subscribed so I dont forget the idea of ice water in the MLT!

I have been going back and forth between the idea of <coil in HLT> and <coil in BK> for chilling. I have a similar set of design thoughts as you Walker &#8211; I am an engineer who doesn&#8217;t want to throw money down the drain for a one trick pony, but would like to keep the process as simple as possible yet adaptable.

The biggest thing I am worried about in the <coil in HLT> option is the temp differential gradually gets smaller, since the entire volume of water is warming up at the same time. That&#8217;s why I thought it may be a better idea to run hose water through an IC submerged in the boil kettle and into the HLT where it would mix with Oxyclean to be used for cleaning. So I did that this weekend with my new setup. The temps coming out of the coil started at about 180 and by the time the entire HLT was full of water (~15 gallons), the water temps were still spitting out at around 110 and the wort was at about 130. I didn&#8217;t have ice and didn&#8217;t have any additional time so I just transferred to fermenters and let cool down the rest of the way overnight.

How long does it take for your 5 gallons of oxyclean solution to dissipate enough heat until you switch over to the ice, and what temps are you shooting for? I am thinking I probably would do better with a longer coil (mines 25 ft 3/8&#8221; copper), that way I could run at a slower flowrate and still get the high output temps (theoretically in a perfectly efficient system the water output temperature would be the same or slightly greater than the wort temperature).

But I dont really want to buy another coil or add to the existing one, so maybe the <coil in HLT> will work better for me since the 'opportunity' for temperature exchange is not lost, it just takes longer time (or you could increase flowrate in a recirculating system).

 

[pfgonzo]

Slight hijack: I had strongly considered using a CFC as a the HEX in my HERMS system (which is only a mental project at the moment). If I have two pumps anyway, why not make the CFC do double duty, right? This thread is in a similar vein.

Can anyone think of a reason not to do this, or a reason why using the single coil HEX in the HLT is a better idea than using the CFC? They both offer dual use heating/cooling. Just curious.

Thanks!

 

[kpr121]

Slight hijack: I had strongly considered using a CFC as a the HEX in my HERMS system (which is only a mental project at the moment). If I have two pumps anyway, why not make the CFC do double duty, right? This thread is in a similar vein.

Can anyone think of a reason not to do this, or a reason why using the single coil HEX in the HLT is a better idea than using the CFC? They both offer dual use heating/cooling. Just curious.

Thanks!

I’d imagine it would work fine, except you could be losing heat to the ambient air depending on where you mount it, unless you are going to leave it in the HLT. I don’t have any personal experience with a CFC, but they may be more likely to clog? Doesn’t sound like they should, the wort would be pumped through the inner coil which should be a similar diameter to these HEX/IC’s right?

 

[geniz]

I have my HERMS coil in my HLT/BK in a two vessel system. I use it as an IC after the boil by running water thru the coil. Works great. When the groundwater gets too warm in the summer, I plan on pumping ice water thru it. I get around thermal strats by whirlpooling the wort during cooling.
For my needs, with my system, I dont see a need to spring for a plate chiller.

 

[kpr121]

I guess that simplifies the design quite a bit more! Instead of worrying when to move the coil from the HLT to the BK, just get rid of one of the vessels!

I&#8217;d actually love to be able to do this, but I somewhat frequently do double batches, and having the two separate vessels really speeds up the process. (That&#8217;s actually another issue I am having &#8211; double batch e-brew days with only a 30 amp circuit&#8230

 

[geniz]

Yeah I like the simplicity of the system. I dont make a lot of high gravity beers, so the no-sparge is not a problem. But I do have a third keggle available as a "transfer" vessel if I do a higher gravity beer (like Walker was describing).

I agree that double batching is impractical on a two vessel system or running two E-vessels on 30A

 

[Walker]

How long does it take for your 5 gallons of oxyclean solution to dissipate enough heat until you switch over to the ice, and what temps are you shooting for?

Using the oxi-water, I take the temp down from boiling to about 110*F. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes? (That's a guess, I've never really timed that specific part of the chilling by itself). Then I switch over to the ice-bath and finish chilling in another 5 minutes or so (again, a guess, because I have not timed the two steps to chilling as separate things).

What I *do* have data for is that I can chill from boiling to 67*F and have the beer in the fermenter in about 20 minutes total.

 

[kpr121]

Using the oxi-water, I take the temp down from boiling to about 110*F. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes? (That's a guess, I've never really timed that specific part of the chilling by itself). Then I switch over to the ice-bath and finish chilling in another 5 minutes or so (again, a guess, because I have not timed the two steps to chilling as separate things).

What I *do* have data for is that I can chill from boiling to 67*F and have the beer in the fermenter in about 20 minutes total.

Thats very quick, I gotta have something wrong with my setup, I'd like to hope that it is inefficient agitation, and by recirculating and whirlpooling I will combat that.

How long is your chiller tubing? Mine's only 25 feet.

 

[Walker]

I do stir the oxiwater and icewater while pumping the wort through the coil.

 

[crazyseany]

I do stir the oxiwater and icewater while pumping the wort through the coil.

i think you have to... using a regular copper ic the waste water goes from boiling to chilly very quickly..... stir and its back to near boiling coming out again.... 5 gallon batch with ic and garden house i can cool in about 15.....

 

[Walker]

5 gallon batch with ic and garden house i can cool in about 15.....

My tap water is never cool enough to chill a batch completely no matter how long I run the thing.

 

[kpr121]

Hey Walker how many feet of copper coil are you running?

 

[Walker]

That's a little bit of a trick question. I have 25 feet 3/8" copper coil but I split it in half and made two shorter coils that run in parallel.