Hitting the FG bullseye without sulfites

[NeverDie]

I was aiming for it to stop at about 1.010 since I didn’t want to use any Sulfites at the end.

The common wisdom seems to be that this is a fools errand, and that you'll likely undershoot or overshoot your target.

But it got me thinking...

Perhaps if you aim high enough, such that you're more or less guaranteed to overshoot your target FG, and you have a second batch of the same mead that you have let ferment completely dry, then by blending the two batches you could get the FG that you're looking for? I pose it as a question, because I've never tried it. I do know that some commercial mead producers (e.g. Schramm) claim not to use sulfites, and so I do wonder how they always hit the ABV on their label everytime unless they do it by blending (or pasteurizing, which AFAIK no one does, but maybe?)

 

[RPh_Guy]

You hate the idea of stabilizing?

To hit a target FG exactly without stabilizing, you need to ferment to maximum ABV, and then add the appropriate amount of either water or honey.
Adding water without stabilizing may cause a little more fermentation to occur since the ABV dropped, in which case you'll need to add a little more honey.
You'll need to leave it sit for a while before bottling to make sure it's really finished.

I do wonder how they always hit the ABV on their label everytime

They probably don't hit it exactly. Labeling regulations for alcohol allow a large margin of error, even more than most food products.

Also, using the same yeast and same process over and over allows you to maintain some degree of consistency with regard to fermentation kinetics.

They may also be employing sterile filtering or pasteurization methods, rather than chemical stabilizers. I'm not sure.

 

[Maylar]

Also, using the same yeast and same process over and over allows you to maintain some degree of consistency with regard to fermentation kinetics.

I suspect that this is true. If Schramm has used enough 71B over the years he probably knows just how much honey to use and at what temperature to ferment such that he exceeds the alcohol tolerance at 14% on a consistent basis.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I have a friend that is sensitive to sulfur, that’s why I’m avoiding it. When reading through the BOMM thread, I saw how Bray doesn’t use stabilizers and the results seemed fairly consistent using that protocol. His reports of wyeast 1388 going through roughly 120sg points when front loaded has held up with his protocol.
So far with the four batches I’ve done, I have been hitting roughly my target... then I added more fruit...

 

[NeverDie]

I suspect that this is true. If Schramm has used enough 71B over the years he probably knows just how much honey to use and at what temperature to ferment such that he exceeds the alcohol tolerance at 14% on a consistent basis.

His Heritage mead is 12.5% ABV.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have a friend that is sensitive to sulfur, that’s why I’m avoiding it.

If you ever want to stabilize, I'd suggest you try sodium benzoate. It shouldn't need sulfite.

To avoid oxidation maybe you could use tannins and/or ascorbic acid.

 

[NeverDie]

Dansk Modj cleverly cheats the issue by selecting their target mead FG to equal 19% ABV. I guess they must be spoon feeding it?

 

[Blacksmith1]

Or they use 1118 which can hit that

 

[NeverDie]

What are the tradeoffs to using sodium benzoate as compared to potassium metabisulfite? I presume it's not as good, or else people would be using it instead, or at least more than they are.

 

[RPh_Guy]

What are the tradeoffs to using sodium benzoate as compared to potassium metabisulfite? I presume it's not as good, or else people would be using it instead, or at least more than they are.

Potassium sorbate (well, it becomes sorbic acid) inhibits yeast replication and thereby prevents fermentation if there is a negligible amount of yeast cells present. FYI the average taste threshold of sorbic acid is 150ppm, but it's not really a bad flavor.

Sulfite (the molecular SO2 fraction, which is pH-dependent) inhibits bacteria that can produce a nasty off-flavors in the presence of sorbic acid. As another function, sulfite also helps to prevent oxidation.

Sodium benzoate (which becomes benzoic acid) inhibits both yeast and bacteria by interfering with cellular metabolism. This negates the need for sulfite.
The reason it's not frequently used by homebrewers is because benzoic acid can form trace amounts of benzene (especially in the presence of ascorbic acid), which is carcinogenic. When taken into perspective, it's assuredly not a health risk -- e.g. you're exposed to exponentially higher levels of benzene through your normal daily activities, and don't forget that ethanol is also a carcinogen for which there is no "safe" level of consumption.

Hope this makes sense. Cheers.

 

[NeverDie]

Potassium sorbate (well, it becomes sorbic acid) inhibits yest replication and thereby prevents fermentation if there is a negligible amount of yeast cells present. FYI the average taste threshold of sorbic acid is 150ppm, but it's not really a bad flavor.

Sulfite (the molecular SO2 fraction, which is pH-dependent) inhibits bacteria that can produce a nasty off-flavors in the presence of sorbic acid. As another function, sulfite also helps to prevent oxidation.

Sodium benzoate (which becomes benzoic acid) inhibits both yeast and bacteria by interfering with cellular metabolism. This negates the need for sulfite.
The reason it's not frequently used by homebrewers is because benzoic acid can form trace amounts of benzene (especially in the presence of ascorbic acid), which is carcinogenic. When taken into perspective, it's assuredly not a health risk -- e.g. you're exposed to exponentially higher levels of benzene through your normal daily activities, and don't forget that ethanol is also a carcinogen for which there is no "safe" level of consumption.

Hope this makes sense. Cheers.

Sulfite is only aimed at bacteria? I thought sulfite also killed off wild yeast, but that brewer's yeast was more tolerant of it and could survive. Not?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Sulfite is only aimed at bacteria? I thought sulfite also killed off wild yeast, but that brewer's yeast was more tolerant of it and could survive. Not?

When combined with sorbic acid, sulfite is only used to control bacteria because the sorbic acid controls the yeast.

When sulfite is used by itself (typically before fermentation or in dry wines to prevent oxidation post-fermentation), it does have some ability to control wild yeast as well, but it's effectiveness at that is limited (e.g. it only adequately affects certain yeast genera), and/or you'd need to use so much that it would negatively impact flavor in the case of stabilizing post-fermentation.
Sulfite certainly can't be used by itself to stabilize for the purpose of sweetening.

Does that make sense?