Help With My Water Test Reaults

[Bigarcherynut]

I'm hoping this is the correct forum to post this.

At the beginning of the year I finished brewing three batches in my BIAB E-System. This was my first attempt at all grain brewing and from some of the feedback was told to consider having my water tested.

All the batches were drinkable but one a Buffalo Sweat clone was ok but did not taste like the original at all. I looked at 3 different recipes and all were so very close I figured it should come out ok. Wondering if the actual out come was due to my water quality I decided before brewing any more batches would send in a sample of my water. I sent my sample to Ward Laborites for a Home Brewers test. I'm in the country and have a deep well. I talked to Ward labs and described my well and they feel the results would not vary during the seasons of the year so the one test result should be accurate.

I'm attaching the results of the test and hope you can give me some insight on what the results show and what I need to do to adjust my water for future brewing.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[brewerdoc]

The water is pretty high in Total Hardness & Total Alkalinity which will prevent what type of styles you may be able to brew without alteration. I think you might be stuck with either using RO water + salt additions vs RO or distilled water + your home water. There are tons of threads online including this forum that dive deeply into water science and brewing. Check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=128 to get you started. Read some of the stickies, go to some of the linked websites and keep on reading. It may seem daunting at first but once you try to alter your water once or twice then its no problem.

Just an FYI your name and home address are on the form that you uploaded.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

The water is pretty high in Total Hardness & Total Alkalinity which will prevent what type of styles you may be able to brew without alteration. I think you might be stuck with either using RO water + salt additions vs RO or distilled water + your home water. There are tons of threads online including this forum that dive deeply into water science and brewing. Check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=128 to get you started. Read some of the stickies, go to some of the linked websites and keep on reading. It may seem daunting at first but once you try to alter your water once or twice then its no problem.

Just an FYI your name and home address are on the form that you uploaded.

Thanks for the start. I didn't think this was going to be easy.

I did delete the PDF file and just poted the results.

 

[brewkinger]

Thanks for the start. I didn't think this was going to be easy.

It's not as difficult as you might think though. A basic understanding of chemistry is helpful but not necessary as you will learn it on the way to understanding the chemistry of your water.

I agree with some of the numbers being a little wonky in your water.
The hardness and alkalinity are a bit high, but they can be decreased.
The Ca and Mg are within working limits.

The Brew Science subforum is a great place to start and then check out BrunWater or EZ-Water for some help.

I warn you that it opens up an addiction within this hobby.

Enjoy it!

 

[acidrain]

Plug your numbers into a good on-line water calculator. I like Brewers Friend.
Add your recipe to the calculator, and then start playing with the numbers. You will probably need to use a certain amount of RO water. Try 50/50 to start, and then go from there.

 

[GotPushrods]

Liquid Chalk!!!!!

 

[mabrungard]

Very hard and high alkalinity. The main detriment is the high magnesium. Dilution by at least half is needed for most brewing. Complete replacement for lighter flavored styles.

 

[Natdavis777]

Very hard and high alkalinity. The main detriment is the high magnesium. Dilution by at least half is needed for most brewing. Complete replacement for lighter flavored styles.

Negating the Mg level, would pre-treatment of Phosphoric acid aid in lower the bicarbonate (like we have here in Indy)? I ask because a friend of mine utilizes this process at his brewery here with good results. Im just curious in the process of neutralizing bicarb with phosphoric acid prior to brewing with the water. He says he gets precipitation (assuming calcuium?) and decants from that. His beers always turn out great.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've read these post and other articles but still am a little lost on the subject.

I have played with the EZ Water program and correct me if I'm wrong but it appears is that I put in my test results and what I'm attempting to do is correct the PH of my mash and sparge water if used. If so maybe easy enough. Am I missing anything else?

Now like some have mentioned it appears it's better to replace some of my well water with RO water rather then adding large amounts of Gypson, Calc Chloride or Epson Salt. This seems to make sense. Why add more to my already hard water.

Is there a maximum amount of any of the additives used to lower Ph that should be used?

May be getting on track at least I hope so.

 

[brewkinger]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've read these post and other articles but still am a little lost on the subject.

I have played with the EZ Water program and correct me if I'm wrong but it appears is that I put in my test results and what I'm attempting to do is correct the PH of my mash and sparge water if used. If so maybe easy enough. Am I missing anything else?

Now like some have mentioned it appears it's better to replace some of my well water with RO water rather then adding large amounts of Gypson, Calc Chloride or Epson Salt. This seems to make sense. Why add more to my already hard water.

Is there a maximum amount of any of the additives used to lower Ph that should be used?

May be getting on track at least I hope so.

It sounds like you have the basic understanding to get you off and running.
To summarize what you just asked (I think)...

1) Start by entering YOUR current water profile into the brewing water program ( I am not entirely familiar with EZ-Water / I use BrunWater)

2) Pick a water profile that you want to use for the beer that you are going to make.

Like Martin said above, with your current profile, your choices are limited but fairly simple. A 50% dilution with RO water will cut mineral value in HALF.
Na = 3.5
K = 1
Ca = 45.5
Mg = 24
Total Hardness = 209
Nitrate = 16 (reported as NO3-N, so multiply x4.43 to get working value of 32)
Sulfate = 12
(since it was reported in units of SO4-S on your report, you multiply x3 to get a workable value to enter into the program)
Cl = 5.5
Carbonate = <1.0 (can be ignored)
Bicarbonate = 228
Total alkalinity = 187.5
Dont worry about the rest.

This would be a good place to start for most pale/amber styles and darker beers when you would have to add some basic salts to bring the values back up to what you desire.

For lighter styles (blonde, wheat, saison....) you would have to dilute with more than 50% / closer to 80-90% and in that case you may as well start with RO which is a blank slate and then just add salts and acids to get you where you need to be.

3) Yes, there are limits for amounts of salts and acid contributions before adversely affecting the taste of the finished beer. Some can actually make it harmful and others can contribute to the overall health of the yeast during fermentation.

Na : 0 - 150 ppm
Mg : 0 - 30 ppm
Ca : 50 - 150 ppm
Sulfate : 0 - 350 ppm
Chloride : 0 - 100 ppm

Bicarbonate : There is no guideline for this other than a target amount that is only really certain after figuring out the acid additions needed to the mash into the appropriate range. For me this was confusing at first until I just did what BrunWater told me to.

As far as limits on acid additions, there are some I am sure especially depending on the type of acid used.
I use lactic and quite honestly usually only end up adding around 4-5 mL into mash and sparge water each.
Citric acid has some constraints (i have read this somewhere)

The brew science forum is a great tool for all of this and IMO, if HBT users mabrungard or ajdelange chime in on something, you can pretty much believe it as gospel. They are the resident experts on these matters.

As always, you can always ask questions and BREW ON!

 

[Bigarcherynut]

It sounds like you have the basic understanding to get you off and running.
To summarize what you just asked (I think)...

1) Start by entering YOUR current water profile into the brewing water program ( I am not entirely familiar with EZ-Water / I use BrunWater)

2) Pick a water profile that you want to use for the beer that you are going to make.

Like Martin said above, with your current profile, your choices are limited but fairly simple. A 50% dilution with RO water will cut mineral value in HALF.
Na = 3.5
K = 1
Ca = 45.5
Mg = 24
Total Hardness = 209
Nitrate = 16 (reported as NO3-N, so multiply x4.43 to get working value of 32)
Sulfate = 12
(since it was reported in units of SO4-S on your report, you multiply x3 to get a workable value to enter into the program)
Cl = 5.5
Carbonate = <1.0 (can be ignored)
Bicarbonate = 228
Total alkalinity = 187.5
Dont worry about the rest.

This would be a good place to start for most pale/amber styles and darker beers when you would have to add some basic salts to bring the values back up to what you desire.

For lighter styles (blonde, wheat, saison....) you would have to dilute with more than 50% / closer to 80-90% and in that case you may as well start with RO which is a blank slate and then just add salts and acids to get you where you need to be.

3) Yes, there are limits for amounts of salts and acid contributions before adversely affecting the taste of the finished beer. Some can actually make it harmful and others can contribute to the overall health of the yeast during fermentation.

Na : 0 - 150 ppm
Mg : 0 - 30 ppm
Ca : 50 - 150 ppm
Sulfate : 0 - 350 ppm
Chloride : 0 - 100 ppm

Bicarbonate : There is no guideline for this other than a target amount that is only really certain after figuring out the acid additions needed to the mash into the appropriate range. For me this was confusing at first until I just did what BrunWater told me to.

As far as limits on acid additions, there are some I am sure especially depending on the type of acid used.
I use lactic and quite honestly usually only end up adding around 4-5 mL into mash and sparge water each.
Citric acid has some constraints (i have read this somewhere)

The brew science forum is a great tool for all of this and IMO, if HBT users mabrungard or ajdelange chime in on something, you can pretty much believe it as gospel. They are the resident experts on these matters.

As always, you can always ask questions and BREW ON!

Thanks much for your input. I decided to download Bru'N Water and give it a try. It's more complex but I've read through it and it's very good at explaining all areas.

The one thing I'm confused on is selecting a water profile. Currently I'm brewing porters and stouts. Is the program selecting a profile on what I enter for a grain bill? How would I know what other profiles to select if I wanted something other than what the program selects. There's quite a list of water profiles. It appears I play with additives and water amounts whether using RO or distilled to get my water profile to closely match what the program suggests.

Does this seem right? Any other help on the program is greatly appreciated.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks much for your input. I decided to download Bru'N Water and give it a try. It's more complex but I've read through it and it's very good at explaining all areas.

The one thing I'm confused on is selecting a water profile. Currently I'm brewing porters and stouts. Is the program selecting a profile on what I enter for a grain bill? How would I know what other profiles to select if I wanted something other than what the program selects. There's quite a list of water profiles. It appears I play with additives and water amounts whether using RO or distilled to get my water profile to closely match what the program suggests.

Does this seem right? Any other help on the program is greatly appreciated.

Not really. Instead of picking one of the many 'profiles' (which may or may not be what a certain brewery used), go simpler: dark, malty for example.

Or even simpler- aim for a reasonable mash pH (5.3-5.5 generally), and enough calcium chloride to get your calcium to 50 ppm or more, and the chloride to 50 ppm or more; and if you're doing a super bitter hoppy beer, add some gypsum to get the sulfate to 150 ppm or more. That's the super basic way to find what YOU like.

Think of those flavor ions as just that- the flavor ions, like you would salt or pepper in a recipe. The mash pH is crucial, the amount of sulfate or chloride is not. You may find that in a stout you prefer 75 ppm of chloride with a mash pH of 5.6- but that's going to be a minor thing in the overall picture.

 

[catalanotte]

My water is very similar to yours and I had a hard time making any appreciable impact on mash pH with salts alone due to the high alkalinity.

I just started tinkering with lime softening. I was able to reduce the alkalinity in my water from about 350 to 70. This alone brought the mash pH down from 6+ to 5.5. A small dose (10ml) of phosphoric acid got the mash and sparge water right where I wanted them for a lighter beer (SRM 6)

As a starting point to check your numbers, I use 9 gal of water with 13.5 g of slaked lime, 5g of gypsum, and 10g of CaCl produced great brewing water. I mixed cold and let sit overnight then siphoned the water off the chalk precipitate the next morning and brewed.

Use a water calculator because you need to replace the calcium you will loose with this method.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Not really. Instead of picking one of the many 'profiles' (which may or may not be what a certain brewery used), go simpler: dark, malty for example.

Or even simpler- aim for a reasonable mash pH (5.3-5.5 generally), and enough calcium chloride to get your calcium to 50 ppm or more, and the chloride to 50 ppm or more; and if you're doing a super bitter hoppy beer, add some gypsum to get the sulfate to 150 ppm or more. That's the super basic way to find what YOU like.

Think of those flavor ions as just that- the flavor ions, like you would salt or pepper in a recipe. The mash pH is crucial, the amount of sulfate or chloride is not. You may find that in a stout you prefer 75 ppm of chloride with a mash pH of 5.6- but that's going to be a minor thing in the overall picture.

Primarily I brew porters and stouts. I may do a wheat for the summer. So you are saying enter my grain bill in a water program and play with the additives to get my PH in the range of a dark beer water profile? Sounds easy.

Thanks.