Help with 2different cider recipes

[aaron4osu]

I have two batches of cider going. One is from fresh cider and the other is a mixture of fresh cider and grocery store apple juice and corn sugar. I would like some help on how long to let ferment and how to batch prime each for carbonation.

batch #1 :Made from:
5 gal fresh apple cider ( no preservatives)
vial of White Labs WLP775 English Cider Yeast.
.06 OG
fermenting in 5 gal glass carboy

batch #2 Made from:
2 gal. fresh apple cider ( no preservatives)
2 gal reg grocery store bought apple juice (no preservatives)
2 lb of corn sugar
vial of White Labs WLP775 English Cider Yeast.
.062
fermenting in 5 gal glass carboy

Both gravities game out about .06 which I thought was low for batch 2 with the extra 2lb of suger but i guess the store bought juice must have had a much lower gravity than the cider which was 1.06.

Both batches have been aging for 2 weeks and fermentation has slowed to about one bubble every 30 seconds.

I plan on priming to get some carbonation when I bottle.

I have had some evaporation as expected. I don't have a 4 gal carboy to use as a secondary, so I don't think I should rack and age in another 5 gal because there would be about 6-8 inches of air inside.

My questions:

1) How long should I ferment each batch if I don't plan on racking to a secondary, but rather stay in primary (on the least bed) until ready to carbonate and bottle.

2) How do I calculate how much sugar to batch prime with for carbonation?

3) How long to bottle for?

 

[Jacob_Marley]

1) I would rack off the lees when the cider falls clear. Not doing so can lead to other issues and off flavors.
Find a solution to the headspace problem ... find a bunch of smaller gallon jugs ... go to your brewers/vintner supply and buy glass marbles (I even know people who've used beach stones - smooth round stones - and boiled em) and use them to bring up the level in their carboys ... top off with something, maybe even use 2 liter plastic pop bottles (not for real long term though), but do eliminate the headspace.

2) you might read ...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/cloudy-cider-269568/index2.html
and
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/carbonating-cider-simple-instructions-278451/#post3462741
3) um, depends on how long you can stand not drinking it for

 

[aaron4osu]

Is it necessary to move to a secondary for batch #1 with all fresh cider and no extra sugar?

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Is it necessary to move to a secondary for batch #1 with all fresh cider and no extra sugar?

Yes, I would suggest getting it off the lees.

In winemaking, leaving the must on the lees is sometimes used to produce certain desired flavors (sometimes described as “toasty” or “nutty”) but this is something you would be managing very consciously and intentionally.
Mead, and particularly Champagne come to mind as sometimes using this technique.

Even at that, it *still* involves racking the must off of the lees.
You would rack the must off of the lees while the wine is still cloudy, and then allow the *remaining suspended* particles to be your new lees bed (as they settle) for the process ... which then involves further weekly stirring and tasting etc.

In cider, if you wanted to invite MLF, this is the same technique you would use to develop the lees bed, and allow autolysis to make nutrients that give you the best chance of MLF ... a further maturation process for some ciders.

In any regard, the simplest and safest course of action is to rack.

 

[aaron4osu]

Is there a reason not to bottle the batch made from fresh apple cider now after 3 three weeks of fermenting?

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Nope. Not necessarily any specific reason not to.

Some possible reasons one might not ...
backsweetening
fining
bulk storage (storing in bulk is often desirable when you expect temperature changes, like in the winter with the furnace going on and off, as 5 gallons is more slowly affected by a temperature change in the room than is a 12oz bottle.)

 

[aaron4osu]

Alright... I took some gravity reading today and they both have surprisingly fermented out to the same final gravity.

batch #1 went from 1.06 down to 1.002 ~7.61% abv
batch #2 went from 1.068 down to 1.003 ~ 8.53% abv

Batch #1 was really sour when I tasted it. I added about a teaspoon of corn sugar to about 6-8oz (or however much the hydrometer tube holds) of cider and it tasted pretty good. I was looking for a bit of a dry green apple taste anyway. My question is how to fix the rest of it.

I wanted to go ahead and bottle it asap. I was planning on added sugar to prime with but I'm not sure about how much to add to 4 gal of cider. Will added to much give me exploding bottles or a just sweeter cider.

Batch 2 was fine as is. How much sugar should I us to prime slightly less then 4 gal say 3 3/4 gal.

 

[ajbram]

See the sticky by Pappers at the top of this forum. Sounds like your fermentation is pretty much done. I would rack off the lees and let the cider clear a little bit before bottling. If you're not bulk aging for a long time, then headspace isn't as big a concern as some on this forum would have you believe. If you want, throw in a little bit of corn sugar after racking to secondary. The yeast will ferment this out pretty quickly and leave a nice layer of carbon dioxide in your carboy to protect your cider from oxidation while it clears. Carbon dioxide is heavier than air, so it will just rest on top of the cider. This is what those wine protector aerosol cans that they sell do for your wine. When you bottle, prime with as much corn sugar as it takes to get your sweetness where you want or slightly above, then bottle carb and pasteurize according to Pappers' method.

 

[aaron4osu]

Can someone help me calculate the percentage of alcohol?

Originally batch #1 went from 1.06 down to 1.002 ~7.61% abv

I racked it into secondary today.
It was pretty sour tasting so I added enough sugar to make it taste slightly sweet figuring it would dry out a bit while fermenting in secondary.

The gravity after adding the sugar was 1.012.
if I let it ferment until it reaches 1.008 would would I just add the original total alc to the new fermentation total?

here is what i'm thinking:

1.06 down to 1.002 ~7.61% abv
1.012 down to 1.008 ~1.02%
=======
total final alcohol ~ 8.63