help me understand this about hops

[justenoughforme]

some hops are known for finishing some are known for bittering.


but all hops can do both right ? like any hop can be dry hopped to add aroma, and any hops can be boiled to add bitterness, correct?

i'm using brewgr.com to estimate my IBU's and shoot for about 50 IBU. it seems i can use any kind of hop to reach that, and any other hop added as a dry hop will not effect bittering. is this true ?

 

[jekeane]

The % of Alpha Acids in a hop are generally what place them in Bittering or Aroma categories. To get the same amount of bittering from a 5% AA hop that you would get from a 13% AA hop you would need to use significantly more of the 5% than the 13%. You could just toss whatever hop in to hit an IBU number you wanted but then you may be missing out on what roles certain hops perform best.

 

[justenoughforme]

but yet Citra hops are a 13.6%, but most people consider them so aromatic as to be best for dry hopping.

... so do people just memorize each hop? or is there a system behind it to explain which strain does which role best ?

 

[ba-brewer]

yes, but some are better suited for boiling, some for flavor and some for aroma. All of the calculator I have seen dont add IBUs for dry hopping, never really checked or noticed an increase in bitterness when I dry hopped with something like chinook.

The chemical make of the oils determines how well they work for aroma or flavor. Compare hops like saaz or hallertau to some used primarily for bittering.

https://www.hopunion.com/hop-varieties/

 

[slym2none]

My LHBS has a pretty good description of each hops' role, just click through each kind and you'll see AA%s as well as what the suggested role is:

http://www.bullcityhomebrew.com/products.aspx?id=105

 

[aStoutObserver]

In general, you want to use your high alpha hops as your bittering. It will keep your costs down.
If you have a high alpha hop that has great flavor though, you'd rather use it for the flavor/aroma and purchase a cheaper hop with a high alpha.

Some hops do a better job at bittering as well, some are more neutral in their flavor for bittering and some can have bad characteristics when bittering.

So yes, basically you memorize which ones you and others have had good and bad experiences with.

 

[justenoughforme]

Okay ... so it's not like math only ... too bad.

basically try different hops and remember which ones you liked. and rely on the opinion of people here to get me started.

as for low alpha hops in bittering ... i see it takes more product, but it's not going to ruin the beer.

 

[mrdail87]

Generally speaking, hops are assigned these labels just because of their common usage. As brewers start getting more creative more hops are gaining ground as a "dual purpose" hop.

But like people have said above, you'll generally want to add a high-alpha at the beginning. This is because the longer you boil the hops, the more they lose their flavor and aroma. Hops boiled for 60 minutes generally don't have much (but still some) flavor contribution in the finished beer.

But really the only way to know whether a hop works as a flavor/aroma hop to you is to try it. Even though Nugget has been long considered a bittering hop due to it's clean and neutral bitterness, it's gaining popularity as a flavor/aroma hop as well.

At the end of day, if you want to use "aroma" hops at 60 min, and "bittering" hops at 0 min, there's nothing that says you can't. The only thing I'd really recommend is research hops you're not familiar with if you're thinking of brewing with them. For example, some say Summit hops taste like tangerine, some say it tastes like garlic and onion. Because of the huge swing in opinion, I'm waiting til I can try this in a small batch =P

 

[justenoughforme]

So why not add 6 ounces of hops at 20 minutes ? then retain the flavour of all aroma hops.

ignoring price of course.

 

[Yesfan]

Or just go with Centennial and call it a day.


One thing you could do (and I've thought of this for myself) is just do some simple SMaSH recipes where all you have in the ingredients is one style of malt (like 2 row or marris otter) and a single hop used for bittering and flavor/aroma. This would give you an idea of what you're tasting in the finished beer since it would essentially only have 2 ingredients (except for the water and yeast of course).

 

[justenoughforme]

Yesfan that sounds really brilliant. my current brew is all cascade hops, but all kinds of different malts.

i tend to drink porters and abbey styles... but wanted to make one batch of fresh pale ale. and that would seem perfect for a simple clean beer to leave room to taste the individual ingredients.

 

[aStoutObserver]

So why not add 6 ounces of hops at 20 minutes ? then retain the flavour of all aroma hops.

ignoring price of course.

The reason you don't want to do that is because say 6 ounces at 20 with citra (12%) you would get 104 IBU. When instead you could do the same hop, add 2 ounces at 60 and get 102 IBU. Then you'd have 4 ounces to put at the 0 minute, whirlpool or dry hop. Then you'd get more flavor out of your late hops and the same ibu.

Again though, if you used a high alpha hop like Bravo then you'd swap out the more expensive citra for bittering and have more citra (the more preferred flavor) for later on or another beer.

 

[justenoughforme]

thanks so much; i've really learned a lot here.

 

[mrdail87]

So why not add 6 ounces of hops at 20 minutes ? then retain the flavour of all aroma hops.

ignoring price of course.

If that works for your recipe, there's no reason you couldn't. I make, 30-20 minute beers all the time. It's called "hop bursting". I'm a pretty big fan of it, at least for making hoppy beers.

In terms of price, it's not all that more expensive. I think I might buy 1-2oz more hops than I would for a 60 minute boil.

 

[aStoutObserver]

All that everyone has said to you is true. Hop bursting can be utilized wonderfully. The best you can do is to brew and brew and brew. Practice will teach you best.

 

[olotti]

I also would say if u want to get a taste of a certain hop is use a neutral bittering hop like magnum, it gives you the ibu's for bittering with not a lot of flavor then hop burst with a diff hop. A lot of breweries do this when they want a hoppy beer but want little flavor from the bittering hop so they bitter with a neutral hop like magnum and then get the majority of the ibus from the late additions. Also look at columbus, high aa but I like a little as a bittering and then I hop burst with it because you lose the bitterness but get this unique pungent aroma and paired with a hop like simcoe, amarillo, or cascade even a real fruity hop like Galaxy gives a very nice contrast.

 

[Saboral]

I'd recommend Charlie Papizan's Joy Of Homebrewing. It has a great chapter on hops, different varieties, and all the characteristics that each brings to the table. Hops are more than just alpha acids or even beta acids. Each variety has different combinations of compounds going them a unique profile.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Another thing to note is that the longer the hops stay in the boil the less flavor they bring to the party. And there are a number of other oils and acids in hops that kick the equations around the block.

Most of what has been discussed above focuses on the Alpha Acids (AA %) which has the most impact on bitterness. The other acids are Beta Acids and Cohumulone. The oils include Myrcene, Humulene and Caryophyllene. Each of these bring different flavors and aromas to the hops and boil off at different rates. It would take a whole lot of discussion and study to figure out how each of these interact but suffice it to say figuring it all out is not a simple process.

That being said, while you theoretically could used virtually any hop in any application, you may be wiser to stand on the shoulders of those who've gone before us. But if you want to attempt to reinvent the wheel be my guest and good luck.

Cheers!

 

[Magnus314]

For Citra in particular I don't like it as a boil or FWH hop... it tastes like grass and smells like cat pee.

But for 15, 5, 0, whirlpool, dry hop it's great!

 

[Yooper]

So why not add 6 ounces of hops at 20 minutes ? then retain the flavour of all aroma hops.

ignoring price of course.

Yes, that's actually common to do. Well, not all at 20 minutes necessarily, but adding all of the hops for the beer in the last 20 minutes of the boil.

This is called "hopbursting" and gives much more flavor and aroma to a beer. I love it in some of my pale ales and IPAs. Here's a hops schedule for one of my beers I did as a hopbursted ale (10 gallon batch, calculated at 56 IBUs:

2.00 oz Centennial [11.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
1.00 oz Centennial [11.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [9.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min

That beer was awesome! Here's another, calculated at 60 IBUs:

1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min
2.00 oz Simcoe [11.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [10.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.80 %] Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [10.10 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe [11.90 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min
1 oz Simcoe (dryhop 5 days)
2 oz amarillo (dryhop 5 days)


It's simply another technique to have in your brewing arsenal. Back when hops were really cheap, I'd sometimes do mash hopping and first wort hopping, as well as whirlpool hops. (When I started brewing, hops were usually under 50 cents an ounce, sometimes even less).

The tricky part would be to guestimate the IBUs. Since hops do isomerize below boiling temperatures, it takes some guess work and experience to get the right balance of bittering for a hopbursted beer.

 

[Homercidal]

Just what Yooper said. It's starting to be much more common to add all of the hops at or past the 20 minute mark to get the bittering you need and a ton of hop flavor.

You may have to add 1/2 the hops at 20 and the other half at flameout to not push the IBUs too far. You can figure the IBU:Gravity ratio manually or have a software like beersmith help you out.

 

[ba-brewer]

I heard on the Jamil Show saying you can get good hop bursting effects by doing half the IBUs as 60min kettle addition and other the half of the IBU from 20min and less. I like this approach as it helps reduce cost and trub and wort losses.

 

[justenoughforme]

this answered all of my questions guys

 

[adixon3]

If you like wasting money why not just go to a local brewery and get a growler fill everyday instead of making your own

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Different hops give different 'types' of bitterness (and some flavour does still come through with 60min boils). Just because a hop has a high level of Alpha Acids, doesn't make it good for bittering - it might give a 'harsh' bitterness (I think I remember reading that this comes from a high beta-acid level). Citra is one that I really don't like for bittering - it tastes sort of cleaning chemical like to me. On the other hand, some low alpha hops are great for bittering delicate beers such as german lagers - hallertauer, tettnang etc. EK Golding is another low alpha hop that is used a lot for bittering british beers. Magnum is my favourite high alpha bittering hop.

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

Northern Brewer, if I'm not mistaken, is a good all purpose hop.