Help me understand my water report

[Jeremydc]

I’m no chemist and don’t really care to become one, but I do want to make better beer. Attached is my neighborhood water report. Please tell me what I need to do to make better beer

 

[ajdelange]

I’m no chemist and don’t really care to become one, but I do want to make better beer.

Some would call those conflicting goals.

 

[FatDragon]

If this six year old water report is still valid, check the calcium, magnesium, chloride, sulfate, bicarbonate, and sodium numbers. Plug them in to a water calculator like the one on beersmith or Brewer's Friend, set a target water profile from the drop down menu, and see what you need to do to achieve it. Without learning some of the chemistry of brewing water, that's probably the best you'll be able to do. Mind you, that's roughly the level I'm at as well so that's an honest suggestion, not a snarky way to tell you to do the research yourself.

Otherwise, get an RO system and build your water from scratch (that's actually how I do it, since I can't get a water report). I just set my ion levels to zero in the calculators - it's probably close enough - and add salts as suggested.

 

[mabrungard]

That water is usable for many styles. The main impediment is likely to be the high alkalinity and that can generally be neutralized with an acid addition.

 

[cire]

Some would call those conflicting goals.

Probably there are some, but would those numbers include many of the better brewers?

Your water did have excess alkalinity, but note those date back to 2013 and some things may have changed.

 

[tasq]

You don't need to become a chemist, but you really should take the time to learn the basics. At the very least check out the Water Chemistry Primer sticky. No one is going to do the work for you. Good luck!

 

[ajdelange]

Probably there are some, but would those numbers include many of the better brewers?

I would certainly thinks so. Were you to be desirous of becoming a "better brewer" you would contemplate attending a brewing school or, at least, studying some brewing textbooks. Both these sources would expose you to a fair amount of chemistry. The point is summarized nicely in No. 6. You certainly don't need to have a degree in chemistry to be a good brewer and there are good brewers who know precious little chemistry but for most of us knowledge of the chemistry leads to better beer. Brewing is an art but like all arts there is a scientific underpinning that leads to the technique that results in better art.

 

[cire]

I would certainly thinks so. Were you to be desirous of becoming a "better brewer" you would contemplate attending a brewing school or, at least, studying some brewing textbooks. Both these sources would expose you to a fair amount of chemistry. The point is summarized nicely in No. 6. You certainly don't need to have a degree in chemistry to be a good brewer and there are good brewers who know precious little chemistry but for most of us knowledge of the chemistry leads to better beer. Brewing is an art but like all arts there is a scientific underpinning that leads to the technique that results in better art.

Don't be so presumptuous, I was simply putting into context that chemistry is but a small part of brewing. What I observed here was someone saying if you don't wish to be a chemist you won't be a brewer.

I would respectfully suggest that there maybe fewer capable brewers who would rank chemistry in as high esteem as you in particular do. Virtually all of the necessary chemistry I learned well before being old enough to drink and thought about brewing. Anyone believing chemistry is a substantial proportion of brewing knowledge has much to learn about brewing.

In an 8 hour brew day I can spend no more than 5 minutes doing the chemistry and probably spent only a fraction of 1% of my lifetime of study of brewing doing chemistry. Don't make it out to be more important than the many other parts of brewing that when understood help one to become a better brewer.

Recently attended a lecture at newcastle University by Dr Keith Thomas of Brewlab on the subject of yeast and fermentation. Now that does do your head in. Just a little bit of the biology in brewing, a somewhat larger science subject in brewing than chemistry. Try it.

 

[Big Monk]

Don't be so presumptuous, I was simply putting into context that chemistry is but a small part of brewing. What I observed here was someone saying if you don't wish to be a chemist you won't be a brewer.

I would respectfully suggest that there maybe fewer capable brewers who would rank chemistry in as high esteem as you in particular do. Virtually all of the necessary chemistry I learned well before being old enough to drink and thought about brewing. Anyone believing chemistry is a substantial proportion of brewing knowledge has much to learn about brewing.

In an 8 hour brew day I can spend no more than 5 minutes doing the chemistry and probably spent only a fraction of 1% of my lifetime of study of brewing doing chemistry. Don't make it out to be more important than the many other parts of brewing that when understood help one to become a better brewer.

Recently attended a lecture at newcastle University by Dr Keith Thomas of Brewlab on the subject of yeast and fermentation. Now that does do your head in. Just a little bit of the biology in brewing, a somewhat larger science subject in brewing than chemistry. Try it.

From a time management perspective, most of brewing is wort production. Wort production is dominated, like it or not, by chemistry.

Fermentation, however, is also extremely important, and is both biological and chemical in nature.

So to be fair, chemistry figures rather prominently in brewing from a technical standpoint. To your point though, you can make beer of varying quality without ever having sully your hands with the science involved.

 

[cire]

From a time management perspective, most of brewing is wort production. Wort production is dominated, like it or not, by chemistry.

Fermentation, however, is also extremely important, and is both biological and chemical in nature.

Biochemical reactions.

So to be fair, chemistry figures rather prominently in brewing from a technical standpoint. To your point though, you can make beer of varying quality without ever having sully your hands with the science involved.

I wonder then what a chemist might produce without having sullied his hands in brewing?

To be frank, I started brewing with a book that contained virtually nothing on chemistry and produced a drinkable beer. I'm not so sure that would have been the case if instead I had a chemistry text book containing all the chemistry used in brewing. In time I found that some of my beers were better than others, but in those days there was no internet and I was unable to even locate where there might be a books that gave the required information. When I found one the, chemistry required to get started was no more than had been taught up to the age of 15.

A few simple facts to get started.
1. Measure alkalinity. A Salifert kit is accurate enough for our needs.
2 Determine the reduction necessary to achieve the required alkalinity for the style being brewed.
3. Calculate the amount of acid required and after treatment check alkalinity using the Salifert kit. Using hydrochloric will increase chlorides by 71 ppm for 100 ppm reduction in alkalinity as CaCO3. With sulfuric, sulfates increase by 96 ppm for 100 ppm reduction in alkalinity. Using AMS/CRS, Chloride increase 35.5 ppm and sulfates by 48 ppm for 100 ppm reduction in alkalinity as CaCO3.
4. Calcium sulfate dihydride (gypsum) is 23.28% calcium and 55.79% sulfate. Calcium chloride dihydride (flake) is 27.26% calcium and 48.09% chloride.

Of course it can be made a lot more complicated and more restrictions applied if you want, but it is easy to get free of many problems with little essential effort.

 

[ajdelange]

Anyone believing chemistry is a substantial proportion of brewing knowledge has much to learn about brewing.

That's true and the wise brewer knows it. He is, if he is smart enough to have studied the various chemistries (organic chemistry, inorganic chemistry, biochemistry, physical chemistry, molecular biology), protected by the Socratic Paradox i.e. the more he knows the more he knows that he doesn't know. He thus continuously strives to fill the gaps in his knowledge even though he knows he'll never succeed. But he knows that the gaps in his knowledge are mostly concerned with areas of the chemistry/biochemistry that he does not fully understand (which may be because the community hasn't elucidated them yet). In short, he appreciates that what he has much to learn about in brewing is more chemistry.

Recently attended a lecture at newcastle University by Dr Keith Thomas of Brewlab on the subject of yeast and fermentation. Now that does do your head in. Just a little bit of the biology in brewing, a somewhat larger science subject in brewing than chemistry. Try it.

If much of that lecture wasn't on the chemistry of, e.g. the EMP pathway, you wasted your time.

Good beer is the result of using your art to bring about the desired result through controlling myriad chemical processes. What else do you need to know about? Some physics (thermodynamics) WRT temperature control and understanding that physics (thermodynamics) is necessary for developing a successful art by drawing on the engineering disciplines (should you control cylindroconical temperature with a fuzzy controller or a PID controller?) but whatever disciplines you draw on in implementing your art it must manage the chemical reactions (proteolysis, glycolysis, acid/base, EMP etc.). Have you not wondered why so many brewers have advanced degrees in biochemistry? They may wind up more as artists (engineers) in the conduct of their daily duties but it is their background in the science that enables them to be good at what they do.

Unfortunately on the internet one is much more likely to encounter Dunning-Kruger effect (opposite of Socratic Paradox) than the Socratic Paradox.