Help me make a Breaking Bud clone

[whovous]

I was in NYC over the New Year's weekend and got a chance to drink a pint of Breaking Bud from Knee Deep Brewing. I loved it and I want to clone it. They list all of the ingredients on their web site:

"Old school meets new school in this fresh approach to the classic IPA. At 50 IBU’s and 6.7% ABV, Breaking Bud features the restrained bitterness and alcohol of a classic IPA with newer tropical fruit hop flavors and aromas of Mosaic. Also in the hop mix are Simcoe and CTZ, creating layers of mango, passion fruit, pine and dank. A malt bill with a pinch of crystal malt and a hefty dose of flaked wheat keeps the beer crisp while adding flavor complexity."

I sent them an email asking for the recipe. I also asked them some questions in the event they were unwilling to tell me their recipe. I got the following reply from the Tasting Room manager:

"Here is what my brewer passed on to me…

SRM – 5
CTZ is used with bittering addition
Heavy whirlpool addition
Heavy dry hop addition"

While they did not say so, I presume the grain bill is primarily two-row, with some flaked wheat and even less crystal. CTZ/Columbus is used as a bittering addition, Mosaic is the dominant flavoring hop, and Simcoe is also used. The numbers I want to match are:
6.7% ABV
50 IBU
5 - SRM.

I am not at home this weekend, so I downloaded a trial version of BrewSmith and played with quantities until I got the numbers above. Let's see if I am smart enough to insert the recipe here:

View attachment BreakingBudClone.pdf

I use a single pot continuous mash system, and I tried to get BeerSmith to at least approximate that. I assumed 75% efficiency as I have topped that number in my last few tries but I am not sure I have it dialed in.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[whovous]

Here is the attachment linked above. Not sure where the stuff below the listed dry hops comes from, but I left it as the software created it.

Breaking Bud Clone
American IPA (14 B)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.02 gal
Boil Size: 7.37 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.09 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.65 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.7 %
Bitterness: 50.0 IBUs
Est Color: 5.0 SRM
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, No
Mash Out
Sparge Water: 5.12 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Carbonation Type: Bottle
Pressure/Weight: 3.65 oz
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 09 Jan 2016
Brewer: DPA
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Electric Urn (10 Gal/40 L) - BIAB
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 87.5 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.8 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 8.6 %
3.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 1.6 %
0.70 oz Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 35.0 IBUs
1.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 9.8 IBUs
0.63 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 5.2 IBUs
3.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9 -
3.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Measured Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.0 %
Calories: 210.2 kcal/12oz
Mash Profile
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 11.0 oz
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step
Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 14.61 qt of water at 163.0 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.12 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Bottle with 3.65 oz Corn
Sugar
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 65.0 F

 

[whovous]

Let me add two more unrelated questions, in hopes of getting some answers here.

1. I start with RO water. What sort of water profile should I aim for to make this as "juicy" as possible.

2. While I used the standard five gallon template to push the numbers through the trial version of BrewSmith, I will actually be cutting everything in half when I brew this. My system is here: http://brausupply.com/collections/b...-3-gallon-countertop-electric-120v-brew-sytem. I use a 24L pot to target 2.5 gallons to bottle. This is a recirculating mash, no sparge system.

With all that said, just what is the best way to configure BrewSmith to recognize this system? I have the paid version at home, and I feel like I am missing something(s) when it comes to the equipment profile. Any tips on how to approach this?

 

[bcunning82]

Have you tried brewing this. I live 20 min from the brewery and it would be nice to be able to clone this and. Not pay the $7/22. How did it turn out. Recipie looks like it would get you close

 

[TWAL]

Have you tried brewing this. I live 20 min from the brewery and it would be nice to be able to clone this and. Not pay the $7/22. How did it turn out. Recipie looks like it would get you close

Was only posted 6 days ago and OP was away from home at time of posting.
Even if he got home and brewed the same day the beer hasn't finished yet...

 

[whovous]

I plan to brew next weekend.

I was really hoping to get some advice, first.

Newest question: Where do I find 2015 hops? I have some leftover 2014 Mosaic that I put in vac bags and then refrigerated, but I think this one needs to be as fresh as possible.

 

[bcunning82]

For the hops you should be able to get them here:
http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/DomesticHopPellets2015_s/1946.htm

I asked around here and the only advise I got on Knee Deeps house yeast was it is more likely White labs San Diego Super Strain than Chico Strain. Cleaner more aggressive yeast strain.

Realized it was a fairly new post and that there would not have been a chance to brew and drink after I posted.

 

[brew703]

I would like to brew this in the coming weeks.
I entered into Brewers Friend and following the hop additions as noted, whirlpool addition added at 180 degrees, 3% utilization I get 85 IBU's, 17 from the Mosaic whirlpool and 6 from the Simcoe whirlpool. Does that seem about right?
I'll have to make some adjustments as would want to keep the IBU's around 50.

 

[DeadAirJeff]

I would like to brew this in the coming weeks.
I entered into Brewers Friend and following the hop additions as noted, whirlpool addition added at 180 degrees, 3% utilization I get 85 IBU's, 17 from the Mosaic whirlpool and 6 from the Simcoe whirlpool. Does that seem about right?
I'll have to make some adjustments as would want to keep the IBU's around 50.

The 50 IBU number probably depends on whether that is what their brewing software calculated or if it was actually done via lab analysis.

If it wasn't analyzed at a lab, then you would need to know which IBU formula was used (Tinseth or Rager) and how they calculate whirlpool additions. Some breweries treat whirlpool as 0 IBUs in software; even though there is obviously some sort of utilization.

Beyond that, it's probably a best guess depending on your system and how well you know it.

 

[TheHopfather]

I find Beersmith starts popping out pretty useless IBU numbers with whirlpool/hop stand additions. I would be shooting for the 50 IBU's from the boil additions and ignore the numbers from the hop stand additions. Keep in mind that you are looking to create a juicy IPA, that juicy descriptor is hop flavor (oils), not hop bitterness (IBUs). Anything below 180 F shouldn't add much, if anything, in the way of IBU's. So the idea with a juicy IPA is hit your 50 IBU's during the boil (or slightly less depending on your hop stand temps), lower the temp of the wort to below isomerization temps (175-180F) and extract all of those yummy, juicy hop oils.

I haven't ever tried this beer you're looking to clone so I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine if it's anything like other juicy IPA's you can toss a ton of hops into the hop stand and not worry about your IBU's (because you aren't adding any).

 

[brew703]

I find Beersmith starts popping out pretty useless IBU numbers with whirlpool/hop stand additions. I would be shooting for the 50 IBU's from the boil additions and ignore the numbers from the hop stand additions. Keep in mind that you are looking to create a juicy IPA, that juicy descriptor is hop flavor (oils), not hop bitterness (IBUs). Anything below 180 F shouldn't add much, if anything, in the way of IBU's. So the idea with a juicy IPA is hit your 50 IBU's during the boil (or slightly less depending on your hop stand temps), lower the temp of the wort to below isomerization temps (175-180F) and extract all of those yummy, juicy hop oils.

I haven't ever tried this beer you're looking to clone so I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine if it's anything like other juicy IPA's you can toss a ton of hops into the hop stand and not worry about your IBU's (because you aren't adding any).

I've never tried it either but it sounds good. I'm new to whirlpooling-just didn't want a huge hop bomb. I'll mess around with brewers friend / beersmith and see what I come up with.

 

[Johow]

My favorite local brewery, just down the road from me. The only trouble I have with them is the lowest ABV they have is this one at 6.7%, but it's good.... I wish they had something similar that was a little more sessionable. The Citra Pale is good as well but it's 7.0.
Well, good luck with your recipe.

 

[whovous]

I find Beersmith starts popping out pretty useless IBU numbers with whirlpool/hop stand additions. I would be shooting for the 50 IBU's from the boil additions and ignore the numbers from the hop stand additions. Keep in mind that you are looking to create a juicy IPA, that juicy descriptor is hop flavor (oils), not hop bitterness (IBUs). Anything below 180 F shouldn't add much, if anything, in the way of IBU's. So the idea with a juicy IPA is hit your 50 IBU's during the boil (or slightly less depending on your hop stand temps), lower the temp of the wort to below isomerization temps (175-180F) and extract all of those yummy, juicy hop oils.

I haven't ever tried this beer you're looking to clone so I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine if it's anything like other juicy IPA's you can toss a ton of hops into the hop stand and not worry about your IBU's (because you aren't adding any).

I am pretty close to being a novice brewer and I am even more of a novice with BrewSmith. I did the numbers with a free evaluation copy as I was not at home at the time. I've not run them again at home where I've done a little more tweaking with the setup.

Anyway, just as a point of confirmation to the above, BrewSmith adds precisely zero IBUs for the whirlpool and dry hops. Based on the brief hints I got in the email from the brewery, my guess is that they treat those latter hops as being IBU free.

 

[whovous]

I've never tried it either but it sounds good. I'm new to whirlpooling-just didn't want a huge hop bomb. I'll mess around with brewers friend / beersmith and see what I come up with.

I am interested to see your thoughts after playing with the software. The original is a very juicy beer, but it is not extremely bitter.

 

[whovous]

For the hops you should be able to get them here:
http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/DomesticHopPellets2015_s/1946.htm

I asked around here and the only advise I got on Knee Deeps house yeast was it is more likely White labs San Diego Super Strain than Chico Strain. Cleaner more aggressive yeast strain.

Realized it was a fairly new post and that there would not have been a chance to brew and drink after I posted.

Hah, that is where I ordered the hops yesterday.

I have not checked with Google, but I assume the SD Super is a liquid yeast. I've gone exclusively dry in my brief brewing career. Any chance the Super would play nice without a stir plate or a starter? One thing to note is that while I listed this as a 5 gallon brew, my plan is to cut all of the numbers other than the yeast in half when I brew. Would a full pack of the Super get me where I want to go if I simply oxygenate and pitch it?

 

[beskone]

Hah, that is where I ordered the hops yesterday.

I have not checked with Google, but I assume the SD Super is a liquid yeast. I've gone exclusively dry in my brief brewing career. Any chance the Super would play nice without a stir plate or a starter? One thing to note is that while I listed this as a 5 gallon brew, my plan is to cut all of the numbers other than the yeast in half when I brew. Would a full pack of the Super get me where I want to go if I simply oxygenate and pitch it?

San Diego Super is gnarly. You probably can get away with just a single vial. I usually make starters and when I use san diego super my fermentations are pretty explosive.

 

[whovous]

San Diego Super is gnarly. You probably can get away with just a single vial. I usually make starters and when I use san diego super my fermentations are pretty explosive.

So, just bring it to room temp, oxygenate the wort, shake the yeast and toss it in? Sorry if I am being redundant, but I feel the need to order this ASAP if I am going to use it (storm coming Friday), and I want to be sure I know what I am doing before I pull the trigger.

 

[brew703]

I am interested to see your thoughts after playing with the software. The original is a very juicy beer, but it is not extremely bitter.

I have beersmith on my laptop at home but I played around with brewers friend. I also cut the original in half as I normally brew 2 gallon batches on the first attempt and then make changes.

I changed the whirlpool to zero utilization and plan on adding those hops at 175 degrees for 30 minutes. I don't have a whirlpool set up so will have to get a good stir by hand for a couple minutes then let it ride.

 

[whovous]

OK, I wound up postponing this for a week. Snowzilla meant I could not get to my office for the 2015 crop Mosaic. Also, my LHBS was out of San Diego Super. I expect to fix both problems today, and to brew on Sunday afternoon.

I've never used liquid yeast before, and want to be 100% sure on this. This is a 2.5 gallon batch. Will I be OK if I simply oxygenate and pour the yeast into my FV? I've never used a starter, don't own a stir plate, and just don't feel ready to go down those paths just yet. I don't plan to harvest any yeast either, FWIW.

 

[brew703]

I've direct pitched before using a Wyeast Smackpack but never a White Labs Vial. It was all good and fermentation started within 10 hrs.

I brewed a Belgian PA using a White Labs vial. I let the vial come to room temp and had to shake the crap out of the vial to get the yeast to suspend. Once opened to place in my flask, the yeast exploded, losing some of it.

You may want to shake it up to suspend the yeast and place back in the fridge then take out on brew day and re-shake to suspend the yeast.

 

[whovous]

Thanks. Pitch at room temp or fridge temp?

 

[TheHopfather]

Pitch at, or a couple degrees below your fermentation temp.

1 vial for a 2gal batch is lots.

 

[whovous]

I finally brewed about three weeks ago. I am not sure where I went wrong, but I definitely missed my numbers on this one.

Then again, it turns out my hydrometer measures water at 1.004. So, I missed my OG by .008 on the low side and my FG by .004 on the high side, giving me an ABV of 5.25% rather than the targeted 6.7%.

I bottled and "Syneked" last night, and sampled some of the brew at the same time.

Wow. Just wow. If what I tasted last night is any indication of what is going to be in my glass soon, this will be my best brew ever. The sad part is that Breaking Bud is not sold locally, so I won't be able to compare the two side-by-side.

 

[TheHopfather]

Wow. Just wow. If what I tasted last night is any indication of what is going to be in my glass soon, this will be my best brew ever. The sad part is that Breaking Bud is not sold locally, so I won't be able to compare the two side-by-side.

Good to hear! You can get some pretty amazing hop character out of those big hopstand additions. Glad to hear that it worked out for you. Don't sweat the gravity numbers too much, worry about those next time, this batch was all about getting those hop flavors into the beer.

 

[whovous]

I wonder what constitutes too much hops for this style of beer. I added 3oz of Mosaic and 1oz of Simcoe, dry hopped for three days, removed those hops and dry hopped the same amount again for another three days before cold crashing. And this in what turned out to be less than two gallons of beer!

 

[TheHopfather]

I'm not sure "too much hops" is the proper descriptor for an IPA. Perhaps "point of diminishing returns" is more on point. I've heard of guys using 1lbs+ per 5gal on IPA's. I'd think at some point you aren't doing much for the beer and just throwing away money. Where that point is I couldn't tell you, sounds like some experimentation is in order!

 

[slym2none]

Psh... I boiled an ounce total, hop-stand with 2oz, and dry-hopped with 1oz on my latest batch, a 2.5G batch of a rye APA. Not even an IPA. An IPA I have coming up has 5-1/2 oz.

As a wise man on this very site likes to say, "more hops better good!"

 

[IslandLizard]

For "modern" IPAs the long hopstand/whirlpool is to get lots of flavor and some aroma into the beer. The dry hop is mostly for aroma, and some flavor. So you did it the right way, to hell with 30', 20', 10', 5', and flameout additions!

Of course there is a diminishing return factor, perhaps even a saturation point how much hop oil and flavor a beer can hold. Given that most hop oils are alcohol soluble, the ABV must play an important role too, aside from being a balancing factor.

Do you eek out all the potential a hop addition can give you? That's the bigger question. The pros pump and recirculate when dry hopping. Peter Wolfe's thesis on dry hopping is a good read. Google will yield more entries.

 

[whovous]

Some follow-up. Forced carbing with the Synek worked OK, or maybe a little too well, as I think it wound up a little over-carbed. The portion that I bottled is also over-carbed a bit.

I managed to get some bottles of Breaking Bud shipped to me. I've not yet tried a side-by-side comparison, but I have tried both within 24 hours and have decided the bittering I am getting from the Columbus is a little too pronounced, compared to the original. Could some of that be due to my missing my efficiency numbers? I dunno.

In any case, I plan to cut back on the bittering charge by a gram or two, and make up for it with a fairly substantial boost of my five minute additions of Mosaic and Simcoe. I will now get only about 40% of my IBUs from the bittering charge.

I am also fiddling just slightly with my grain bill, cutting the wheat by 2 oz and adding 2 oz of 2-row instead. I will set the barley mill a bit finer in an attempt to make sure I don't repeat my efficiency problems. I've also added a refractometer to reduce reliance on my dodgy hydrometer.

 

[whovous]

I plan to brew again this weekend. Here is my tweaked recipe:

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 2.60 gal
Boil Size: 3.75 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 3.25 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 2.50 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage

Date: 23 Mar 2016
Brewer: Heisenberg
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: MiniBrau
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 90.9 %
Taste Rating: 30.0


3.75 gal Distilled Water Water 1 -
5 lbs 6.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 89.7 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 8.3 %
1.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.0 %
5.95 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 19.7 IBUs
40.50 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 20.6 IBUs
20.25 g Simcoe [11.60 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 9.7 IBUs
42.52 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
14.17 g Simcoe [11.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090) Yeast 10 -
42.30 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.30 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
14.17 g Simcoe [11.60 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.7 %
Bitterness: 50.0 IBUs
Est Color: 5.1 SRM

 

[Lazer Wolf Brewing]

I plan to brew again this weekend. Here is my tweaked recipe:

Probably not ready yet but how did the brew go? Anxious to clone this but I think ill wait and see how your last recipe turned out.

 

[whovous]

Well, I continue to make mental errors during the brew process, so it is hard to be sure. I've decided for time reasons to do one three day dry-hop addition rather than two, and I added that dry hop on Monday night and plan to cold crash for 2-3 days on Thursday night, then put a gallon in a Synek bag for a week of force carbing and bottle the rest.

This time, I actually have some Breaking Bad bottles in the house to compare to my result.

The main thing I can say so far is that the second recipe's dialing back a little on the early bittering in favor of quite a bit bigger late additions seems to be a move in the right direction. I think this one is more balanced than the last.

I went quite a bit finer with the Barley Mill, with the result that I got all kinds of pump noise and bubbles during the mash. it never fully stuck, but it was not a fun experience.

It was odd. I tried grain conditioning for the first two times that weekend. I sprayed, stirred, sprayed, stirred over and over agan, then let it sit for 15-20 minutes before putting the grain in the kettle. The Luckiest Man recipe seemed to work a lot better with this procedure on Saturday than my clone did on Sunday. Grain bills were a little different, of course, but i do not get why the difference in result noise-wise was as great as it was.

 

[broadbill]

Not sure if got your water questions addressed; but the recipe looked like a NE IPA (i.e. "juicy" IPA) and this is a sytle where the sulfate/choride ratio is critical. There are a few threads on this if you search for "Northeast IPA"...good luck!

 

[whovous]

Ahh, I wound up building my water entirely around ideas from the Northeast IPA thread. Breaking Bud is a west coast ale, but it is juicy as all get out and I am in DC, so I figured why not mix em up?

 

[bcunning82]

Brewed this up this weekend. Ended up over shooting my gravity a bit to 1.067. I followed the recipe on the 1st page but used US-05 since I did not have my act together enough to make a starter. I will do a side by side once done post the results.

 

[brew703]

I brewed this on 3/25 using US-05. Missed OG by 5 points on the low side. Not sure why that happened. FG was right on target. Bottled on 4/15. Sample was not overly hopped so I'm optimistic.
I'll try a bottle this coming weekend.

 

[whovous]

I am happy to see others are trying this clone as well, and really look forward to learning how others turn out. I think I have useful new data points to offer, albeit about version 1 of Breaking Bud.

I was at my LHBS a few weeks ago when I saw someone drop off three bottles for a homebrew competition and decided since dropping it off was so easy, it had to be time for my first competition, ready or not!

I had three brews at home at the time, but the brown ale came out pretty dull, so I decided against entering that one. I could not enter my Citra-Mosaic, because I did not have three logo free bottles of this brew as required by the rules. Apparently that is a way to prevent cueing the judges into the ID of a participant, I dunno.

I had four bottles left of my first version of Breaking Bud and one had a logo, leaving me exactly the number of bottles needed to enter. The beer was a little past its peak, and I've already noted some errors previously, but I think the notes I got were helpful.

I've transcribed them as best I could with spelling, punctuation, etc intact. Handwriting quality was mixed, so there are likely some errors. First, some info about my judging panel:

Judge 1. BJCP Provisional - Professional Brewer & Certified Cicerone
Judge 2. BJCP Certified
Judge 3. BJCP Grand Master

And now notes from three categories:

AROMA
Judge 1 - Papaya, Guava, Grape, Pinapple, Esters are low or over powered by Hops. Hops are Big and Fruity. Very Tropical.
Judge 2 - Moderate hop aroma of stone fruit - apricot moderate citrus - grapefruit peel, low soup (?) like (lite?) lemon note, no diacetyl, no DMS.
Judge 3 - Fruity hops have an over-ripe aspect. Malt has a nutty character. Esters are not any distinct fruit type. Some herbal hops emerge as sample warms.

FLAVOR
Judge 1 - Pine, Pinapple, lacks behind aroma a little, malt is bready and present in a supporting take.
Judge 2 - Moderate citrus hop up front, moderately low toffee like malt sweetness, the finish has an onion like note. Moderately high hop bitterness balanced decidedly towards hops. Finishes moderately dry.
Judge 3 - Resiny hop flavor has an oxidized edge. Malt is grainy with a nutty edge. Fruity, but no distinct fruit is identifiable. Balanced towards hops. Dries somewhat at the finish, with a lingering resiny hop flavor.

OVERALL
Judge 1 - A very good example of an American IPA. The aroma is very tropical and does not match the flavor. Flavor is good but lacks a little. Bitterness falls behind a little, but overall is good.
Judge 2 - Overall this was a solid IPA. The aroma could be increased - consider increasing aroma/dry hops by 100%. The onion note in the flavor was a little distracting from the citrus and malt balance. Try to identify if it was cause by a specific hop in the recipe and consider replacing.
Judge 3 - A solidly hopped and well balanced IPA. Seems to be showing signs of age and oxidation detracting from overall drinking pleasure. Avoid post-fermentation air exposure to avoid this.

I'd like to know what others think of this. I think it supports my decision in version 2 to cut the bittering in favor of a big increase in late boil hops. I also think it supports the decision to mash higher this time. The judges found this to be moderately dry, and while that is a good thing for many IPAs, I am not so sure it is a good idea when the main goal is a fruit bomb. I mashed about 6F higher for the later one, but then lost temp control for a while, so I don't have any sound conclusions on that front yet, esp since so far I have just the forced carb version from the Synek, which has its own issues.

As for two specific points - One, I did not notice the onion notes, but the brew is gone now, so I cannot recheck. There seem to be a fair number of onion complaints concerning the 2015 Mosaic (and Citra, FWIW) crops. A better educated palate than mine very well could detect onion, I guess. I do not detect it in the new brew, but I used a fair amount of 2014 Mosaic for that one, and I do not recall seeing that complaint about 2014 Mosaic. Version 3 will take me back to the 2015 crop.

Two, oxidation. Dunno how much of what the Grand Master tasted is due to age and what is due to process, but I definitely plan to be more careful about this next time.

Any thoughts on this? I think that in addition to reduced bittering in favor of late hop additions, we also need to figure out how to improve the aroma/flavor balance. Suggestions?

 

[bcunning82]

Just tapped into my clone attempt. I ended up over shooting my gravity and over attenuating to about 7.5%abv.

Appearance: pretty close. Clone is a bit darker and has some haze. Clone on the left.

Aroma: original has a big pineapple aroma, clone has similar aroma but is masked by a peachy estery aroma typical of US-05. Next time will use San Diego super yeast or US-05 at a lower temp to minimize this.

Flavor: very similar, original is a bit brighter. Clone is a little more bitterness. Difference in flavor is not nearly as distinct as it is with the aroma.

Overall: I am happy with the clone beer, it is very good. As stated above I think this could be dialed in with cleaner fermentation. I named it Cracking Bud because it is quite cloned therefore but quite Breaking Bud

 

[whovous]

Looking really good, including my favorite glasses.

What would you differently next time?

 

[roncruiser]

I'm doing this one next.

Any other tips on this beer?

Is there a preferred mash temp agreed upon?