Help a noob out: fruit beer question.

[ronsky]

My significant other was not a big fan of beer (I blame it on her growing up on Miller High Life and Gennesse Cream Ale... Blech!). I had finally gotten her to at least *try* different beers before dismissing all beers, and there are some she may occasionally order when we go out. She likes Yuengling, Blue Moons, Negra Modello, Tecate, Shiner Bock, etc... I have gotten her over the "Bud Light hump", and she was impressed with a neighbor's Homebrew. YEAH ME! I wore her down and I am home brewing! She was skeptical about it at first, but after the first batch, she is liking beer.

So, I promised I would make her a Cherry Wheat in honor of the first beer she drank and went "hey, this is pretty good! I think I'll have another one"...

So, long story short, I am making a cherry wheat beer. I am using a Honey Wheat 5gallon kit from Austin Homebrew Supply as the base, and I also got the following to add to it:
1 can of Sweet Cherry puree (about 3lbs)
2oz of black cherry extract.

Here is where I could use some guidance...
1. I understand that wheat beer is supposed to be 'cloudy'. In my first batch I made I used Irish moss. Should I leave the Irish moss out of the boil to help keep some of that cloudiness that is 'expected' of a wheat beer?
2. I am using wyeast American Wheat 1010 yeast, and plan on fermenting around 68°. Should I let it ferment a little warmer - I am thinking that might help with the 'fruity esters' flavor.
3. Okay, so I have options with the cherry flavor. I had planned on putting all the puree in the secondary, and racking on top of it, and letting it finish on top of that. But the more I think about it, the more I am afraid of it having too too much cherry flavor. Should I use half and just chalk the rest off to a learning experience.
4. I want the beer to have cherry flavor, and not be ashamed of being a cherry beer, but I still want it to know that it's a beer. Should I *just* stick with the extract and adjust at bottling?

Should I just relax, stop worrying, and have another Tröegs? Thanks in advance.

 

[DocScott]

1. I use irish moss in my wheat beers. It will help to drop the larger proteins to clear the beer slightly, but you'll still end with, as you said, expected cloudiness of a wheat

2. I'd ferment around 65-68 for the first few days then warm it up slowly if you wanted. I don't like fermenting warm as I've had a batch or two run away from me and ended up tossing it. You'll get the fruitiness from adding the fruit.

3/4. I would suggest going with your first thought of using a secondary for the cherries. I've never used cherry puree so I can't speak from experience on this one, but using 4-5 lbs of whole cherries is pretty common in a 5 gallon batch. The amount is up to you. I'd start small and add more if needed. I don't like using extract flavors as they tend to be artificial tasting to me. You should get plenty of flavor from the puree.

I love Troegs

 

[ronsky]

I am drinking Tröegs cuz I haven't bottled my first batch yet (plus I needed the empties! Why buy empties when I can drink my way to empties ) . The first batch I made was Caribou Slobber brown ale that came with my kit from Northern Brewer. I know I made some mistakes on it, but what I have sampled from the test jar tastes pretty darn good.

If anyone cares to comment on them, here is the link to the fruit puree :
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_24_22_23&products_id=837

And, here's the link to the 'base' liquid extract kit:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_452_42_163&products_id=324

 

[BigCatBrewery]

only German and Belgian wheats are "supposed" to be cloudy. Wheat is an ingredient, not a style. Hefeweitzen is a style. Barley isn't. If you are interested in fruity esters, I would go with a British yeast, or something that is known for desirable esters, rather than just fermenting warm. And I agree on sticking to your fruit. If the malt and hop backbone is good, that will make it a "beer." I did a peach wheat with ringwood ale yeast and citra hops that turned out fantastic.

 

[sonofgrok]

Wasn't it Burt Reynolds that said "Don't fruit the beer"?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

1) the beer will be a little less cloudy if you use Irish moss. If you are going for a Sammy Cherry clone then I would use the Irish moss and cold crash.
2) The fruit will add plenty of fruitiness. You might not even be able to taste the yeast eaters behind it. If you ferment toward the clean side you don't have to worry about off flavors and hot alcohols associated with warm fermentation temperature.
3) either the 2oz of extract alone or the 3 lbs of sugar would make a beer that has a cleary cherry taste, but still tastes more like beer.
4) You could split the batch at bottling time and make a beer for you and one for her. Use the 3lbs in the secondary. At botteling, after you are half way through add the cherry extract to taste and bottle the rest.

 

[ronsky]

3) either the 2oz of extract alone or the 3 lbs of sugar would make a beer that has a cleary cherry taste, but still tastes more like beer.
4) You could split the batch at bottling time and make a beer for you and one for her. Use the 3lbs in the secondary. At botteling, after you are half way through add the cherry extract to taste and bottle the rest.

I know I am using a puree, and that in all honesty i should probably use real fruit; but does anyone see a concern (or should I even be concerned about ) that extra sugar from the fruit launching a second fermentation? Like I said, I am a true noob...

In re #4; i had thought about possibly doing that ...

/r/

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Sorry... in my post in place of "3lbs of sugar" it should be "3lbs of fruit" is there a nutrition label on your fruit puree? If it is more than 100 grams in your 5 gallon batch it will bump the alcohol a little bit, and the fermentation may add a little off taste, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like you are adding jam or fruit preserves.

 

[freisste]

Sorry... in my post in place of "3lbs of sugar" it should be "3lbs of fruit" is there a nutrition label on your fruit puree? If it is more than 100 grams in your 5 gallon batch it will bump the alcohol a little bit, and the fermentation may add a little off taste, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like you are adding jam or fruit preserves.

For future reference, how bad of an idea would it be to dump in a jar of raspberry jam? I actually thought of this a while back and wondered, but I'm too chicken$h!t to try. Odds are I will always use real fruit, but I didn't know if this was a bad idea or not.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

For future reference, how bad of an idea would it be to dump in a jar of raspberry jam? I actually thought of this a while back and wondered, but I'm too chicken$h!t to try. Odds are I will always use real fruit, but I didn't know if this was a bad idea or not.

Depends whats in the jam, preservative wise. If its just straight "raspberry, sugar, water" then your fine...its when they start adding preservatives that can screw you because it kills or inhibits the yeast...

Your probably better off just buying some raspberries and hand washing them, dipping them in some starsan, then blending them up and dumping in a bag and then into the secondary and rack on top.

 

[ronsky]

Sorry... in my post in place of "3lbs of sugar" it should be "3lbs of fruit" is there a nutrition label on your fruit puree? If it is more than 100 grams in your 5 gallon batch it will bump the alcohol a little bit, and the fermentation may add a little off taste, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like you are adding jam or fruit preserves.

Man , I had to look at your original post again, because I read it as preserves the first time!

 

[ronsky]

Just if any of the previous commenters were wondering: I racked this to the secondary, on top of the cherry puree. IT WENT WILD... There must have been more sugar in those cherries than I thought (can did not list any addition of sugars). So, I had to make a poor man's blow off with the carboy bung and racking hose... Hey, it worked in a pinch. I left it on top of the cherries for 2 weeks to pull out all that cherry goodness, and to clean up some. I tasted before bottling, and added 2oz of the black cherry extract to the priming sugar mix, bottled on Saturday (Dec 1). Tasted pretty good to me, and had a wonderful color- red but not too red. Waiting to see how it tastes in 3 weeks, should be nicely carbed & bottle conditioned by then.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Sounds like a winner!

 

[ronsky]

Update: sampled after 1 week... I was thirsty... And it was okay. Cherry Extract flavour was a bit predominant. Sampled again at 3 weeks, and it was much more smooth. Nice cherry flavor (cherry extract medicinal after taste gone), beautiful garnet color, a little more potent than anticipated. The only concern / complaint I have is that the honey flavor was nonexistent. I don't know if it's masked by the cherries, or if it is from adding the honey per directions instead of at flameout... Even with that, I am still liking the results!