Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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Brew day!

I did Vegan's 4.0 recipe today, and this looks to be my most un-effed up brew to date. I hit 90% efficiency on my rig with the mash. I made a few changes to my usual protocol for this brew:

I built a hop spider to experiment with. I did a little recirculation through the nylon bag for the aroma steep. I think I got some nice aeration from this, and it was nice not having to scrape all that hop pellet gunk out of the BK!

To chill the wort, I had been using a little 25' 3/8" copper immersion chiller- totally inadequate for my needs. Being that it's winter, I filled my HLT with snow and water, and used the steel HERMS coil for chilling. Worked great! Chilled 6 gallons of 180F wort down to 65F in about 20 min.

With all the absorption from the hops, I only ended up with 5 gallons of wort, when I was shooting for 6. The OG was 1.080 though, so I added sterile water to bring it up to 6 gallons. That undershot my gravity a bit- 1.064, but I'm not worried. Less alcohol is more to my taste anyway.

Now I really didn't want to screw up the yeast pitch this time around. I made a starter with, I assumed, about 20B Conan cells, stepped that up in 2L, then 5L, and then 5L again. The estimate is about 1 trillion cells, so I should NOT stall at 1.020 this time!

It's going to be a long month waiting for this one to finish.
 
Cool brew notes, I'm almost out of this and will need to brew again soon. Just an aside on process .. Hot side aeration isn't a good thing, so you should try to keep that to a minimum until you've chilled, post whirlpool.
 
BeerGrylls said:
Cool brew notes, I'm almost out of this and will need to brew again soon. Just an aside on process .. Hot side aeration isn't a good thing, so you should try to keep that to a minimum until you've chilled, post whirlpool.
Click to expand...

Why is that, loss of aromatics?

I thought I was doing myself a favor, as I had only just discovered my O2 tank was out.

What I need to do is build in a lower side port for my BK to allow return flow below the water level of a 5-6 gallon batch. Then I could do a real whirlpool without introducing hot aeration. My BK is 15 gallons, but I hardly ever go over an 8-9 gallon boil, but I'm much more commonly doing 5-6. I wasn't thinking carefully about this when I built out the kettle and placed the fill port way up high.

I just checked on the brew now we already have activity and krausen about 6 hours in. I hooked up a blowoff tube tying it down to the neck of the carboy. Hopefully that will avoid the mess I had the last time I brewed. Even with the blowoff, the whole stopper was pushed out by the eruption of yeast!
 
powermd said:
What I need to do is build in a lower side port for my BK to allow return flow below the water level of a 5-6 gallon batch. Then I could do a real whirlpool without introducing hot aeration. My BK is 15 gallons, but I hardly ever go over an 8-9 gallon boil, but I'm much more commonly doing 5-6. I wasn't thinking carefully about this when I built out the kettle and placed the fill port way up high.
Click to expand...

I literally did this today for the exact same reason you state. I'm stoked to use it on my next brew!

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1390099345.965204.jpg


ImageUploadedByHome Brew1390099361.563968.jpg
 
barrooze said:
I literally did this today for the exact same reason you state. I'm stoked to use it on my next brew!
Click to expand...

Very nice!

Do you find that extra piece of copper tubing is needed to create a whirlpool?

I'm thinking hard about putting a 5500W element in my HLT. What really drags out my brewing day is waiting for water to heat up. Yesterday I started at 0645 and I wasn't done with the brew until 1400, and cleanup pushed to 1700. The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger is the slippery slope. Once I have the element, I have to build a temp controller that can handle the amps... and we may as well hook that up to a PID.. and if I'm doing that now I need a temp probe embedded in the kettle.. yada yada $300 becomes $1000+.
 
I built mine three years ago. No option to buy. Even had to build my own cables. Worth every penny and minute spent though.

Will be brewing 17 gallons of DIPA for a party. 10 gallons will be the v4 clone and I am splitting off 6 gallons at flame out into the cleaned mash run for a different whirlpool hopping (Galaxy, Mosaic and Nelson with a balance of Columbus.
 
powermd said:
Why is that, loss of aromatics?

I thought I was doing myself a favor, as I had only just discovered my O2 tank was out.
Click to expand...

Hot-side aeration is a bad thing, because hot or even warm wort will cause oxygen to bind chemically to compounds within the wort. Then, later, the compounds unbind and cause oxidation and staling in your beer. You really can't safely aerate until the wort is at 80°F or below.
 
Friday I picked up a few new brews to try from my local retailer, and one happened to be Maine Beer Company's "Another One", which is simply described as an IPA.

First sip... WOW. They did a HT clone! The color, dank spice, peachy notes, the finish.. it's all there. Unfortunately I don't think they are widely distributed. Have any of you seen Maine Beer Co's stuff outside of Maine?

This beer is closer to HT than Vegan's clone, but I still enjoy the clone more.\

Update- their website gives the following: ABV – 7.0%, O.G. – 1.059, Malt – American 2-Row, Red Wheat, Carapils, Hops – Warrior, Cascade, Citra, Simcoe.

I thought for sure that dank piney spice came from Columbus.. but maybe you can get that from Simcoe too.
 
powermd said:
Friday I picked up a few new brews to try from my local retailer, and one happened to be Maine Beer Company's "Another One", which is simply described as an IPA.

First sip... WOW. They did a HT clone! The color, dank spice, peachy notes, the finish.. it's all there. Unfortunately I don't think they are widely distributed. Have any of you seen Maine Beer Co's stuff outside of Maine?

This beer is closer to HT than Vegan's clone, but I still enjoy the clone more.\

Update- their website gives the following: ABV – 7.0%, O.G. – 1.059, Malt – American 2-Row, Red Wheat, Carapils, Hops – Warrior, Cascade, Citra, Simcoe.

I thought for sure that dank piney spice came from Columbus.. but maybe you can get that from Simcoe too.
Click to expand...

You should try lunch. By far their best. I didn't think another one was all that amazing and not close to heady. All of their beer is very good, but a tad pricey and not very different from each other for the most part.
I get their stuff in ct
 
I agree on Lunch. Best IPA available locally in Mass. Another one was good but not Lunch and not Heady (respectfully disagree).
 
Feurhund said:
I built mine three years ago. No option to buy. Even had to build my own cables. Worth every penny and minute spent though.

Will be brewing 17 gallons of DIPA for a party. 10 gallons will be the v4 clone and I am splitting off 6 gallons at flame out into the cleaned mash run for a different whirlpool hopping (Galaxy, Mosaic and Nelson with a balance of Columbus.
Click to expand...


ImageUploadedByHome Brew1390251301.464603.jpg

Here are the 5 minute addition and separate flameout and whirlpools for the brew day above. That doesn't include the 3/4 lbs going in the dry hop. Thank you Yakima Valley Hops and glad I bought pounds.
 
Feurhund said:
All pellets. Might put some leaf Simcoe in my hop rocket to Randall when serving though.
Click to expand...
Really? I've found with the few brews I have under my belt that leaf hops give much better results for dry hopping.

Does anyone know if most breweries use all pellets in their IPAs?
 
ARealClassAct said:
Really? I've found with the few brews I have under my belt that leaf hops give much better results for dry hopping.

Does anyone know if most breweries use all pellets in their IPAs?
Click to expand...

After talking with some hop processors, I use pellet almost exclusively. The density of the pellet increases storage stability, especially when referencing oxygen degradation (the oxygen can't get in there). The quality of the preserved hop oils are very high in pellet products (generally speaking). The density of the oils are also better than leaf, hence the increased utilization numbers when using pellet over leaf hops. From a production standpoint, a lot of brewers seem to say that the logistics of using pellets in their system are a lot easier. With that said, I do like to dryhop with leaf in my bigger IPAs. Just a preference.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app
 
Well that's good I guess. Hopefully they put it somewhere that isnt' surrounded by houses this time.

I've heard Heady isn't so hard to get anymore at the stores. I guess I'll find out in late Feb.
 
zardozap said:
70$? Ouch.

I think I could do that a lot cheaper buying stuff locally than ordering a kit.
Click to expand...

$55 for the AG version. Not far off from the cost of everything sourced separately. My LHBS certainly doesn't have many of the ingredients for this recipe, including the Fawcett Pearl malt, the hop extract, and the white wheat. However they are including liquid yeast with the kit. I'm wondering which.
 
BeerGrylls said:
$55 for the AG version. Not far off from the cost of everything sourced separately. My LHBS certainly doesn't have many of the ingredients for this recipe, including the Fawcett Pearl malt, the hop extract, and the white wheat. However they are including liquid yeast with the kit. I'm wondering which.
Click to expand...


Seems pretty reasonable to me. If be interested to know which yeast they are using too.
 
Hey, Vegan, what brand Caramalt do you use? If I can't get the particular could I sub cara/crystal 20?
 
BigDaddyBeard said:
Hey, Vegan, what brand Caramalt do you use? If I can't get the particular could I sub cara/crystal 20?
Click to expand...

He uses Thomas Fawcett Caramalt which is a very light colored crystal malt (~8-12L). This particular crystal gives a fair amount of body to the beer with some sweetness as well - more body, less sweetness. Muntons caramalt is in the 10L range which could make a reasonable sub - different maltster so some different characteristics but they should be minimal. Crystal 20 alone would probably not be a great sub for it; too much sweet and not enough body. However, you might be able to approximate the TFCaramalt with some crystal 20 and carapils (40%/60%, respectively) and, while not ideal, it should get you reasonably close without having to make a special online order. Hope this helps.
 
I'm at 10 days on my V4.0 HT clone, and stuck at 1.020. I pitched a very solid starter which had been stepped up x3, with an estimated 1T cells (500M conservatively- batch is 6 gal). The starter was initiated using ECY29 which had been sitting in its original container in my fridge for about 8 months, but I had no problems growing it up. I could not oxygenate the wort with pure O2, but in error I aerated by waterfall as the wort cooled. Lots of bubbles, and no, the beer does not taste stale or off at this point- just too sweet. I fermented at 63F for the first 5 days, and that got me about as far as I am now. I upped the temp to 66F for two days, then 68F until now. I just transferred to a secondary allowing some mixing with air to gently oxygenate, and I'm upping the temp to 71.5F now. I had another batch that restarted with this technique using the same yeast and fermented down to 1.008.

Any other ideas?
 
You could pitch a different yeast to finish it if you needed to. I would do wlp001/wy1056 myself if I were to do it. Stay away from the us-05 as it has a funny taste the first 2 batches. Hopefully your technique works though.
 
brewski09 said:
You could pitch a different yeast to finish it if you needed to. I would do wlp001/wy1056 myself if I were to do is. Stay away from the us-05 as it has a funny taste the first 2 batches. Hopefully your technique works though.
Click to expand...

Say what now?

At this point any yeast derived flavors youre going to get are already there, US-05 will work fine for this. I was using Conan for over a year, a culture I built up from a can in Nov 2012 and always got %80+ AA.

That culture got a bit old and I used ECY29 and it stalled at 1.020 just like yours, I added rehydrated US-05 and it dried out to 1.014.
 
powermd said:
I'm at 10 days on my V4.0 HT clone, and stuck at 1.020. I pitched a very solid starter which had been stepped up x3, with an estimated 1T cells (500M conservatively- batch is 6 gal). The starter was initiated using ECY29 which had been sitting in its original container in my fridge for about 8 months, but I had no problems growing it up. I could not oxygenate the wort with pure O2, but in error I aerated by waterfall as the wort cooled. Lots of bubbles, and no, the beer does not taste stale or off at this point- just too sweet. I fermented at 63F for the first 5 days, and that got me about as far as I am now. I upped the temp to 66F for two days, then 68F until now. I just transferred to a secondary allowing some mixing with air to gently oxygenate, and I'm upping the temp to 71.5F now. I had another batch that restarted with this technique using the same yeast and fermented down to 1.008.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...


I happen to be in the same position. I grew up yeast from cans and had a good amount of yeast going. Did two separate 2 liter steps after initial grow up. Mashed at 149F.
I also happened to grow up Bells yeast as well. Fermented both at 63F. My 10 gallons of HT V4 is at day 7 and is at 1.020, the 6 gallons with Bells yeast is at 1.018.
They both have a krausen and are bubbling nicely. I ramped up to 72F as I want this to dry out. Am I being paranoid at only 7 days? Consequently
I am rushing these for a party and competition or I would just let it ride. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Also,
Samples smell and taste awesome, but want it drier for sure.
 
powermd said:
I'm at 10 days on my V4.0 HT clone, and stuck at 1.020. I pitched a very solid starter which had been stepped up x3, with an estimated 1T cells (500M conservatively- batch is 6 gal). The starter was initiated using ECY29 which had been sitting in its original container in my fridge for about 8 months, but I had no problems growing it up. I could not oxygenate the wort with pure O2, but in error I aerated by waterfall as the wort cooled. Lots of bubbles, and no, the beer does not taste stale or off at this point- just too sweet. I fermented at 63F for the first 5 days, and that got me about as far as I am now. I upped the temp to 66F for two days, then 68F until now. I just transferred to a secondary allowing some mixing with air to gently oxygenate, and I'm upping the temp to 71.5F now. I had another batch that restarted with this technique using the same yeast and fermented down to 1.008.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...

I had a buddy say the same thing and he fermented cool like you did. He got his down to low 10s be slowly warming it up to the low-to-mid 70s. If 71.5 doesn't do the trick, go a little warmer. I always ramp my beers at the middle to end of ferment and never have issues with stuck ferment (unless I'm using DuPont strain). My HT clone finished at 1.015 using YG001 with no issues at all and no "belgiany" esters.
 
Coff said:
Say what now?

At this point any yeast derived flavors youre going to get are already there, US-05 will work fine for this. I was using Conan for over a year, a culture I built up from a can in Nov 2012 and always got %80+ AA.

That culture got a bit old and I used ECY29 and it stalled at 1.020 just like yours, I added rehydrated US-05 and it dried out to 1.014.
Click to expand...

Though it's the same as the wlp001, I can taste a difference between the two. Something about the drying or packing procedure I think. That's all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app
 
If I go US-05 (simplest route), should I rehydrate, or just toss in a packet?

I'll try escalating the temp overnight to 72.5F and see what happens.

I have two kegged Conan brews in the fridge now, and both went very clovey. I think what did it was that I conditioned in the keg for both at room temp (whatever that was) for two weeks.

Incidentally, on brew #1, which was a Bells 2H clone, I got the stuck fermentation at 1.020 as mentioned above. Brew #2 was racked onto the Conan yeast cake from #1. The thing damn near exploded overnight, and had no problem getting down to 1.010. These were both done in early November, same ECY29 as for the current HT clone batch.
 
I am really enjoying this yeast (harvested from one HT can obtained in CA from a friend/trade). Vegan's v4 was excellent. I used in on my annual Hobo Brew (a closet cleaner) and the peach is just jumping out (this is generation 3). I also used it on a New Albion Clone, which on its face seems wrong, but it is very nice (basically a cascade SMaSH). I have some yeast washed, some frozen (from threads here on HTB). I wish I had a pressure cooker to slant some. Thanks you Vegan and everyone for all the info in this great thread.
 
Coff said:
Say what now?

At this point any yeast derived flavors youre going to get are already there, US-05 will work fine for this. I was using Conan for over a year, a culture I built up from a can in Nov 2012 and always got %80+ AA.

That culture got a bit old and I used ECY29 and it stalled at 1.020 just like yours, I added rehydrated US-05 and it dried out to 1.014.
Click to expand...

This is off topic from the OP thread but along what some have been talking about kinda....

I pitched yeast into a barleywine last week Wednesday with a OG of 1.120! It's Tuesday now, and I did a gravity test just for kicks since I wanted to try both to see how they are coming along. I did a 11g batch and split into two fermentors. One I added 3 packets of us-05 the other I grabbed the yeast cake of a small session ale i used WLP 090 (SD Super Strain), split off 2/3 of the cake and then grew it up with another 5L starter just to be safe.
The two readings today were the us-05 was at 1.042 and the WLP090 was at 1.064.
From all I've read and seen before the 090 should be quicker and more attenuating than the us-05 any day... Airlock activity is slowing to about a bubble every 3-4 seconds now. I tried to re-suspend some of the yeast just now and have upped the temp to around 70-71. Should I just let it ride for now or should I make another small starter of maybe 1L of us-05 and add that into the mix or go to LHBS and get a packet of the high gravity yeast and pitch a 1L starter of that into it?
Also, the one with 090 I even shot with an extra minute of 02 about 6 hours into fermentation! That was on top of the 2 minutes I did at pitch time.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
 
powermd said:
If I go US-05 (simplest route), should I rehydrate, or just toss in a packet?



I'll try escalating the temp overnight to 72.5F and see what happens.
Click to expand...


I've done both. It doesn't really matter. I hope it works out with the Conan for you.
 

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