Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[rpkincaid]

I brewed a variant of the #4 recipe back in post #1642 . I don't have any HT on hand to compare it to, but this turned out really awesome and would definitely recommend it to anyone looking to brew a DIPA. Thanks again for all the recipe work.

 

[brewski09]

I agree about the strainer. I was referring to the body of your post though. The reference to moving to secondary prior to completion of fermentation. Kerns does this with apparently no problems.

Several brewers do this (transfer to secondary prior to completion of fermentation). I believe it is more prevalent in the UK than in the US, but it isn't that uncommon.

 

[brewski09]

While I also question the "faster carbonation" and "better attenuation" aspects of fermenting in the boil kettle, I see nothing inherently wrong with doing so either. I seen other brewers (or another brewer) who ferments directly in the boil kettle and I personally like the idea - just too scared to try it myself There are many folks who basically put their entire boil kettle in their fermenter(s) - break material, hops, and all. Yooper would be a high-profile example of someone who does this, though she does state that she'll leave behind some small amount of the thickest hop/break sludge but I assume it accounts for <5% overall (so 95% of the break/hops are going in). She also indicates that she has great clarity on her beers. I also have taken this similar stance. I drain everything but the seeds into my fermenters , and my beers are coming out very clear. I do not believe there is a direct correlation between "clear wort" and "clear beer". There are always the potential for haze causing proteins to occur at cold temperatures regardless of how clean the wort is at hot temperatures. Additionally, break material has said to be useful for the yeast and what doesn't get used simply settles out (as is evidenced in the boil kettle when whirlpooling and allowing to settle - it's no different in the fermenter). But I still can't quite grasp the "faster carbonation" and "better attenuation" concepts completely.

I also transfer much of my break material. I chill and whirlpool, let it sit for a while, than rack an leave the sludge while taking a large portion of the suspended break material. It takes a few extra days to clear fully, but MY beer is better if I let it sit a few days extra even if I leave all of the break material in the boil kettle.

 

[ianmatth]

My point was, he's anal about getting clear beer and moving it around, but turns around in the same sentence and ferments on it all.

I could care less how clear the beer is. It's all about the taste. I want a fruity taste from the hops, not a grassy taste. I also don't want the bitter taste I sometimes get from dry hopping with pellet hops.

I will also go ahead and put it out there that your carbonation has without a doubt NOTHING to do with your kettle, or straining.

Carbonation is a function of having viable yeast in solution, simple sugars for the yeast to eat, and a closed vessel to build pressure in. Alcohol levels do effect yeast, but you are talking about moving beer before alcohol has even been introduced into the process.

So how would you explain multiple head to head experiments with the same batch where I strained it before adding yeast and it would barely be carbonated after 3 weeks while the part that I didn't strain was fully carbonated in a week. I can't explain it either, but that has been my experience

Your beers end up with grassy flavors because you don't know how to formula a reasonable recipe.Your beers end up with grassy flavors because you don't know how to formula a reasonable recipe. I've seen your threads around here, and you see to struggle with the idea that less is more.

I've done a couple of IPAs that were ~300 IBU, but most of my IPAs were in the 100 IBU range. While the most recent one was definitely overkill, the 300 IBU DIPA I did a few months back was great. The Pliny the Elder clone calculates to 300+ IBUs and uses 4 different kinds of hops, but everyone says it's great. Would you consider that an unreasonable recipe?

 

[tagz]

You guys are not going to get anywhere with this back and forth. Start a new thread if you want to continue arguing about filtering, transferring, etc.

 

[g-star]

I've done a couple of IPAs that were ~300 IBU, but most of my IPAs were in the 100 IBU range.

FYI, those are theoretical numbers and no where close to reality if the IBU's were to be measured with a spectrophotometer. It is a good bet that both of those beers were in the 70 -90 IBU range, and your "300 IBU" beer just wasted a lot of expensive hops.

 

[D_Nyholm]

You guys are not going to get anywhere with this back and forth. Start a new thread if you want to continue arguing about filtering, transferring, etc.

Yes please!

 

[FATC1TY]

You guys are not going to get anywhere with this back and forth. Start a new thread if you want to continue arguing about filtering, transferring, etc.

I'm done with it. Just wanted to try and point out a few miscues. Look at the guys recipes and it's enough to tell ya he just throws stuff around. 1200 ibu beers. Hah.

 

[FATC1TY]

By the way. The latest cans I've gotten have been much cleaner and don't taste the same. I'm on the boat that they tinker more than most breweries or they can't get consistent results over long term due to the yeast. We've seen it on here with batch to batch changes.

Probably shooting a moving target here. Find a version ya like and remember and aim for it.

 

[Adaman05]

By the way. The latest cans I've gotten have been much cleaner and don't taste the same. I'm on the boat that they tinker more than most breweries or they can't get consistent results over long term due to the yeast. We've seen it on here with batch to batch changes.

Probably shooting a moving target here. Find a version ya like and remember and aim for it.

I just got some fresh cans via a trade. More dank than I can remember, but still amazing.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

By the way. The latest cans I've gotten have been much cleaner and don't taste the same. I'm on the boat that they tinker more than most breweries or they can't get consistent results over long term due to the yeast. We've seen it on here with batch to batch changes.

Probably shooting a moving target here. Find a version ya like and remember and aim for it.

Vegans v4 is pretty spot on to last years, and IMO, 100X better heady topper.
Kimmich is using different hops regarding availability recently and seems to be falling off....dare I say. Still an amazing DIPA but nothing from what it used to be, Im even missing the peachiness from the conan.

 

[barnbrewer]

Does anyone know of an online supplier that carries everything needed for the 4.0 clone recipe? Including Pearl, Hopshot, hops, etc

 

[BeerGrylls]

Does anyone know of an online supplier that carries everything needed for the 4.0 clone recipe? Including Pearl, Hopshot, hops, etc

I got almost everything from brewbrothers, listed here in the first post:

Recipe Resources:
CO2 Hop Extract: Purchase from Northern Brewer, Yakima Valley Hops, Brew Brothers

Pearl Malt: Various Homebrew shops

Conan Yeast: Culturing Conan AKA the Alchemist's Heady Topper Yeast and Culturing Conan Yeast from Heady Topper

Thomas Fawcett Caramalt:

Chicago Brew Works Thomas Fawcett Caramalt 1lb

Brew Brothers

Also, the link on the Brew Brothers hop extract is invalid, it should be

http://www.brewbrothers.biz/Hop-JizzTM

Also, welcome to HBT!

 

[barnbrewer]

thanks! I've been following this thread for a long time now and have brewed 2 batches based off the 4.0 recipe,and they were both delicious, but I'd like to try everything to the T including hop extract, Pearl, etc.

I almost prefer our ipa to HT, but there is definately a hop dimension that is missing. Anyone have any idea what I'm tlalking about when drinking this clone recipe next to HT? Maybe an additonal later whirpool?

 

[ianmatth]

I'm done with it. Just wanted to try and point out a few miscues. Look at the guys recipes and it's enough to tell ya he just throws stuff around. 1200 ibu beers. Hah.

That's a 21+% ABV beer, so you can't compare it to even the strongest DIPA. The recipe is based on the DFH 120 clone that scottland originally posted which calculates to well over 500 IBUs...and he said it didn't have enough hop flavor. So far mine tastes great, plenty of hop flavor. Just had to defend myself on that one because I would never use anywhere near that much hops on even a 12% ABV beer. I actually liked the post of the first guy who said this doesn't have a place in this thread, and in regard to that I will say if you would like to comment on my QIPA, you should come over here and do it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/13-hop-qipa-aka-plinyfish-heady-120-a-437125/

I was just describing what I did for my HEADY TOPPER clone and you're the one who jumped on me about my excessive use of hops in OTHER beers, but if you would like to get back to talking about what I did for my Heady Topper clone, it might be relevant to this thread. Of course if we're annoying people in this massive thread, we can always take that conversation over here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/heady-topper-clone-w-little-citra-el-dorado-440230/

 

[ianmatth]

FYI, those are theoretical numbers and no where close to reality if the IBU's were to be measured with a spectrophotometer. It is a good bet that both of those beers were in the 70 -90 IBU range, and your "300 IBU" beer just wasted a lot of expensive hops.

I am aware that in reality these beers will measure less than 100 IBUs. I wouldn't say that it is a waste of hops though. The Pliny the Elder clone uses 9.5 oz of hops in the kettle, calculates to 300+ IBUs, and nobody says it is wasting hops. Interestingly enough the Heady Topper clone uses 8.5 oz hops (although a lot less Hopshot) and calculates to just slightly over 100 IBUs.

 

[kevink]

Is anyone selling Conan right now or is propagating from a can the only option?

 

[CliffMongoloid]

Is anyone selling Conan right now or is propagating from a can the only option?

I got mine from yeast geek

Edit : i now see they are sold out...

If you wanna pay shipping I could get you some... I'm brewing Friday with conan so i could ship it out about a week and a half later after i wash it

 

[brewski09]

I got mine from yeast geek Edit : i now see they are sold out... If you wanna pay shipping I could get you some... I'm brewing Friday with conan so i could ship it out about a week and a half later after i wash it

I think yeast geek sells it every Monday with a 1 week delay

 

[Brewbien]

I think yeast geek sells it every Monday with a 1 week delay

Actually, Yeastgeek has stopped selling for the time being. We had a probably providing people a consistent product and experience and have ceased for the time being while I figure out how to work out all of the kinks. Possibility of going through White Labs for propagation and packaging. I'll let you guys know when we are back. Sorry.

 

[brewski09]

Actually, Yeastgeek has stopped selling for the time being. We had a probably providing people a consistent product and experience and have ceased for the time being while I figure out how to work out all of the kinks. Possibility of going through White Labs for propagation and packaging. I'll let you guys know when we are back. Sorry.

Understandable considering what I've heard about this yeast. Let us know when it's back in production.

 

[white_sage]

Hopefully available soon here as well...
http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/vermont-ale

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

For those that cannot get Conan, what is the closest choice? I know the yeast is a huge part of he flavor profile, but I doubt i could get any, and have no access to Heady (but have had it).

 

[Adaman05]

For those that cannot get Conan, what is the closest choice? I know the yeast is a huge part of he flavor profile, but I doubt i could get any, and have no access to Heady (but have had it).

I read that fermenting 05 on the cool side will give you those peachy notes.

 

[m3n00b]

I read that fermenting 05 on the cool side will give you those peachy notes.

Yes! That's what I did and it tasted almost identical. My version is in the IPA glass. Fermented us05 at 57f then warmed it up to 68 after a week so it could finish.

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

Yes! That's what I did and it tasted almost identical. My version is in the IPA glass. Fermented us05 at 57f then warmed it up to 68 after a week so it could finish.

Thanks! Good to know. Its super easy to get also, so thats good.

 

[brewski09]

Yes! That's what I did and it tasted almost identical. My version is in the IPA glass. Fermented us05 at 57f then warmed it up to 68 after a week so it could finish.

I've done some large beers with us-05 in the low 60's and got full attenuation in under a week. Do you know what the gravity was when you raised the temp by chance? Just curious is all.

 

[m3n00b]

I've done some large beers with us-05 in the low 60's and got full attenuation in under a week. Do you know what the gravity was when you raised the temp by chance? Just curious is all.

It was around 1.015 when I warmed it up. Finished at 1.012.

 

[ianmatth]

Unfortunately my Heady clone didn't turn out as good as it should have. It has a little bit of a Belgian taste. It tastes a little thin (most likely from the dryness as it finished at 1.005), but actually has a sweet taste that is very similar to attenuated sugar. I blame the Conan yeast more than anything, as that is certainly where the Belgian taste comes from and most likely that sweet taste too. My temperature went over 68* at various point during secondary fermentation (was up to 75* one morning when the building jacked the heat up to 85* in my apartment from 78* the night before), and I also bottle conditioned at room temperature. Another likely culprit is the oxidation (and maybe infection) that I'm sure occurred from the airlock being knocked off inside my Cool Brewing cooler for a day or so right before I bottled. I'll probably give this clone another shot, guess I'll have to make sure my airlock stopper is in much tighter in the future. And since my stupid building feels the need to excessively jack up the heat at times, I will keep the temperature in the low 60s at all times when I use Conan yeast. I probably will also change the way I mash and ferment so FG is closer to 1.010, but I like dry beers and if that was the only issue I'd be pretty happy with this beer.

 

[brewski09]

Unfortunately my Heady clone didn't turn out as good as it should have. It has a little bit of a Belgian taste. It tastes a little thin (most likely from the dryness as it finished at 1.005), but actually has a sweet taste that is very similar to attenuated sugar. I blame the Conan yeast more than anything, as that is certainly where the Belgian taste comes from and most likely that sweet taste too. My temperature went over 68* at various point during secondary fermentation (was up to 75* one morning when the building jacked the heat up to 85* in my apartment from 78* the night before), and I also bottle conditioned at room temperature. Another likely culprit is the oxidation (and maybe infection) that I'm sure occurred from the airlock being knocked off inside my Cool Brewing cooler for a day or so right before I bottled. I'll probably give this clone another shot, guess I'll have to make sure my airlock stopper is in much tighter in the future. And since my stupid building feels the need to excessively jack up the heat at times, I will keep the temperature in the low 60s at all times when I use Conan yeast. I probably will also change the way I mash and ferment so FG is closer to 1.010, but I like dry beers and if that was the only issue I'd be pretty happy with this beer.

From what I've read the flavors are all the yeast temp. I wouldn't be too worried about infection, especially if you drink it fairly quickly like you should on heady topper. On the FG, it's a good takeaway for next time. What temp did you mash at ???

 

[beauvafr]

I need to replace the Apollo hops in the dry hop. What do you suggest? My possibilities are Summit, Galaxy, Chinook.

Edit : Ahtanum is also an option.

 

[brewski09]

I need to replace the Apollo hops in the dry hop. What do you suggest? My possibilities are Summit, Galaxy, Chinook. Edit : Ahtanum is also an option.

Apollo is dank, so the only option of those hops would be summit. I do think chinook and galaxy would be fine additions (curious about the galaxy myself). I'm not a fan overall of ahtanum.

 

[ianmatth]

From what I've read the flavors are all the yeast temp. I wouldn't be too worried about infection, especially if you drink it fairly quickly like you should on heady topper. On the FG, it's a good takeaway for next time. What temp did you mash at ???

I mashed at 154*, but I was mashing 11.5 lbs of grain in 5 gallons of water using a 50 quart cooler so there was too much head space and I lost over 15* during a 60 minute mash. However I think at least 3 points of attenuation was due to primary fermentation in my kettle rather than using my Better Bottle carboy.

 

[ianmatth]

I need to replace the Apollo hops in the dry hop. What do you suggest? My possibilities are Summit, Galaxy, Chinook.

Edit : Ahtanum is also an option.

I've never used Summit or Ahtanum. Chinook is spicey dank, but I personally don't like it, although scottland used a little Chinook in a Pliny the Elder clone. I'd choose CTZ over Chinook any day of the week. Simcoe is also dank as well (I'm assuming you have more CTZ and Simcoe since they are part of Heady's hop profile). While Simcoe and CTZ are not as dank as Apollo (I don't know any hop that is), and you will get pine from them that you don't get from Apollo, they are always excellent choices for dry hopping DIPAs. Galaxy is great for dry hopping, but it is tropical and not similar to Apollo in the least.

 

[ZVNJ]

When are you adding the turbinado to this beer? In the fermenter?

Thanks.

 

[BeerGrylls]

When are you adding the turbinado to this beer? In the fermenter?

Thanks.

I added at flame out, but if I had it to do again, I would have added dextrose in its place. There was some discussion on this within the last few pages. Seemed to be a bit controversial but that's my own take.

 

[brewski09]

When are you adding the turbinado to this beer? In the fermenter? Thanks.

We did the turbinado at flameout too and the wort tasted great after the boil. I think some people may have added it earlier and got more malliard reaction from it. Also, the quantity may be a little high so don't be afraid to cut it in half and bump your base malt up to compensate.

 

[jra173]

Are you able to post your complete recipe? This sounds like a good Christmas break from work type of project...

 

[brewski09]

Are you able to post your complete recipe? This sounds like a good Christmas break from work type of project...

Please refer to the 1st posting of the thread for a complete recipe. Thank you

 

[barrooze]

Are you able to post your complete recipe? This sounds like a good Christmas break from work type of project...

I just put this recipe into BrewToad if you want to grab it from there.

http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/heady-topper-v4-from-hbt